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  1. #21
    I bet they're enjoying whatever small distraction this provides over in Blue Heaven...

    hud

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    But, not having followed this as closely as others may have, it strikes me that Maryland may have some defenses to the ACC's claim for the penalty -- specifically, the contention that the liquidated damages clause was adopted without compliance with the ACC Constitution's requirements for amendments, if factually true, would seem to be a concern; and the argument that the amount of the "liquidated damages" is so excessive as to not bear a reasonable relation to the ACC's actual damages that it is an unenforceable penalty may also carry some weight.
    I have followed it closely and I have friends in the ACC office. They may or may not be right, but they insist that the ACC followed the letter of the league constitution when it voted to increase the exit fee. The vote came at a regular meeting and passed by a 10-2 margin (Maryland and FSU voting against). The ACC Constitution clause requires a three-fourths vote to make amendments to the rules ...and the 10-2 vote clearly passed that standard.

    I will be very surprised if Maryland wins on this point.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I have followed it closely and I have friends in the ACC office. They may or may not be right, but they insist that the ACC followed the letter of the league constitution when it voted to increase the exit fee. The vote came at a regular meeting and passed by a 10-2 margin (Maryland and FSU voting against). The ACC Constitution clause requires a three-fourths vote to make amendments to the rules ...and the 10-2 vote clearly passed that standard.

    I will be very surprised if Maryland wins on this point.
    What about the 4 weeks' advance notice provision? That was the part that made me a bit nervous from the ACC's perspective.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    How does Maryland's exit affect the cross-division partnerships in scheduling? Presently, they're paired with Virginia, which makes sense, especially since Virginia and Virginia Tech are in the same division.

    Does Virginia just get shotgun married to Louisville, or do they shuffle things around?

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    How does Maryland's exit affect the cross-division partnerships in scheduling? Presently, they're paired with Virginia, which makes sense, especially since Virginia and Virginia Tech are in the same division.

    Does Virginia just get shotgun married to Louisville, or do they shuffle things around?
    The plan is to slot Louisville into Maryland's slot for scheduling in football and basketball, which would make them cross-division rivals with Virginia. Of course now there are rumblings about the ACC throwing everything out after next year, including cross-division rivals and divisions, so who knows what will happen after that.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    The plan is to slot Louisville into Maryland's slot for scheduling in football and basketball, which would make them cross-division rivals with Virginia. Of course now there are rumblings about the ACC throwing everything out after next year, including cross-division rivals and divisions, so who knows what will happen after that.
    I see. So, fourteen teams in the standings, and the top two go to the ACCCG?

    And what of Our Lady of Northern Indiana? She's like a hot girl who shows up to your party, but then spends all her time there smoking on the back porch with her old friends Southern Cal and Michigan State.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    How does Maryland's exit affect the cross-division partnerships in scheduling? Presently, they're paired with Virginia, which makes sense, especially since Virginia and Virginia Tech are in the same division.

    Does Virginia just get shotgun married to Louisville, or do they shuffle things around?
    This seems like a good thread to hijack. When the ACC zippered the 12 team conference, somehow the zipper got stuck in Virginia. Seems like this would be a good time to rectify that indiscretion:

    Virginia-VT
    Pitt-Louisville
    Syr-BC

    The league should also figure out someway the shuffle (pods, random, whatever) the divisions on an annual basis, but that's another story.

  8. #28
    Ah, terpyland...the unwashed, tacky, loud-mouthed soon-to-be-former family member at the far end of the table.
    We knew ye far too well and can't wait for the screen door to hit you in the backside.
    Please be a stranger!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    ... And what of Our Lady of Northern Indiana? She's like a hot girl who shows up to your party, but then spends all her time there smoking on the back porch with her old friends Southern Cal and Michigan State.
    She's not as hot as she used to be, and certainly not as hot as she thinks she is.

    I could torture the metaphor further with respect to the party and enjoying the participants inside the house (particularly the dumb one who could only get a degree by taking fraudulent classes), but I shan't.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I see. So, fourteen teams in the standings, and the top two go to the ACCCG?
    Nobody knows. I think the league office wants to change the format, but it's hard to see what new arrangement would get support from 3/4 of the members.

    The current football arrangement is pretty good for Duke, with annual games against UNC, Wake and Virginia, regular trips to Atlanta, Miami and Pittsburgh, cool cities in recruit-rich areas, and Virginia Tech, with the second-best atmosphere in the league. And FSU off the schedule most years.
    Last edited by Duvall; 01-14-2014 at 09:01 PM.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Nobody knows. I think the league office wants to change the format, but it's hard to see what new arrangement would get support from 3/4 of the members.

    The current football arrangement is pretty good for Duke, with annual games against UNC, Wake and Virginia, regular trips to Atlanta, Miami and Pittsburgh, cool cities in recruit-rich areas, and Virginia Tech, with the second-best atmosphere in the league. And FSU off the schedule most years.
    I do enjoy the Swof division. Even if we don't get to play State much, it beats the Ford division.

    There's another problem. We've gotten used to the North Carolina schools being split two and two, even if we don't like it. But try to make a North division and a South division out of this:

    North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, not Maryland, okay so Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville say (6)

    South: Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson (4)

    If we ignore Dame, you see the emerging problem. Three Big Four schools go south and one is exiled. I'd like to think that would be Wake Forest, but it could just as easily be us. It's not going to be State or Carolina. They'll keep them together.

    At this point, I'm willing to take UConn or Cincy, stick that one in the North, stick Dame in the North no matter what unholy half-in half-out mess they negotiate, and have a Big Four reunion in the South. I'm not holding my breath though.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Ah, terpyland...the unwashed, tacky, loud-mouthed soon-to-be-former family member at the far end of the table.
    We knew ye far too well and can't wait for the screen door to hit you in the backside.
    Please be a stranger!
    Someone shoot Sporkz Weezie's way for me, put it on my tab. "Must spread love"

    Funny, true, and to the point.

    Awwwwwwwwww, see 'ya Alaska.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I do enjoy the Swof division. Even if we don't get to play State much, it beats the Ford division.

    There's another problem. We've gotten used to the North Carolina schools being split two and two, even if we don't like it. But try to make a North division and a South division out of this:

    North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, not Maryland, okay so Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville say (6)

    South: Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson (4)

    If we ignore Dame, you see the emerging problem. Three Big Four schools go south and one is exiled. I'd like to think that would be Wake Forest, but it could just as easily be us. It's not going to be State or Carolina. They'll keep them together.

    At this point, I'm willing to take UConn or Cincy, stick that one in the North, stick Dame in the North no matter what unholy half-in half-out mess they negotiate, and have a Big Four reunion in the South. I'm not holding my breath though.
    With sixteen teams, it's easy -- four pods, four divisional permutations. But, if I do say so myself, here is what works brilliantly with the current 14 teams:

    2+3+2; four permutations (e.g.):

    South Atlantic: FSU, Clemson
    South Coastal: Miami, GT
    MidAtlantic: NCSU, Wake, VT
    MidCoastal: Duke, NC, UVa
    North Atlantic: BC, Louisville
    North Coastal: Pitt, Syr

    If you use the eighth (non-divisional) game for cross matchups then Voila!!:

    All four southern teams play each year
    NC/Va teams play 4 of 5 each year.
    All four northern teams play each year


    Making divisional record the primary determinant of the divisional champion would make it fair too.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Those were amusing, as was the premise that the liquidated damages provision is so onerous and so restrictive of competition that no one could possibly jump conferences in the face of it (except that Maryland just did so).

    The antitrust counterclaims are silly.

    But, not having followed this as closely as others may have, it strikes me that Maryland may have some defenses to the ACC's claim for the penalty -- specifically, the contention that the liquidated damages clause was adopted without compliance with the ACC Constitution's requirements for amendments, if factually true, would seem to be a concern; and the argument that the amount of the "liquidated damages" is so excessive as to not bear a reasonable relation to the ACC's actual damages that it is an unenforceable penalty may also carry some weight.
    Except that Maryland does not owe the ACC a "penalty" of $52M. They owe the ACC an exit fee, approved unanimously by the ACC presidents, including Maryland's president, months before Maryland's back-room deal to move conferences. That is not a punitive fee. It is a contractual obligation.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by cf-62 View Post
    Except that Maryland does not owe the ACC a "penalty" of $52M. They owe the ACC an exit fee, approved unanimously by the ACC presidents, including Maryland's president, months before Maryland's back-room deal to move conferences. That is not a punitive fee. It is a contractual obligation.
    Uhhhh... The vote was 10-2, with FSU joining the Maryland Sofaburners in opposing.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Someone shoot Sporkz Weezie's way for me, put it on my tab. "Must spread love"

    Funny, true, and to the point.

    Awwwwwwwwww, see 'ya Alaska.
    I tried sporks for you and the weezer but SOS.

    And, to stay on topic, please wear some posterior padding terps so the door don't hurt your derriere as you depart.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta Duke View Post
    The counterclaim is characteristically spiteful - in addition to slamming the ACC, Maryland does a drive by slam of West Virginia in paragraph 103 by stating WVA joining the Big 12 is an "outlier" that probably is not viable for the long term due to travel issues. The Harvard of College Park then proceeds in paragraph 109 to go after the SEC and says the Terps would not deign to join the SEC given the low graduation rates of SEC schools as well as the SEC having no natural rivals for Maryland (as presumably opposed to the Iowa and Nebraska natural rivalries in the Big 10)

    Maryland apparently has transferred its natural rivalry fixation to Penn State, which will be news to Penn State
    Not only Penn State; but i would wager they now consider Ohio St, Rutgers, Mich and Mich St as natural rivals now. Again, I think it would be news to those schools but that's just how MD rolls nowadays.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    What about the 4 weeks' advance notice provision? That was the part that made me a bit nervous from the ACC's perspective.
    This is an interesting point. Does anyone with more familiarity and insight know if the ACC met the advance notice provision? Maybe this is what MD is hedging their bet on. As the league has noted, I don't believe MD wants to pay any substantial exit fee imo. Personally, I think they want to pay something well south of 26 million (around 10-12 million or less). No insider insight but from all the comments by MD officials and the fact the MD is cash strapped, I think they are looking for a charter member discount on the exit fee.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by cf-62 View Post
    Except that Maryland does not owe the ACC a "penalty" of $52M. They owe the ACC an exit fee, approved unanimously by the ACC presidents, including Maryland's president, months before Maryland's back-room deal to move conferences. That is not a punitive fee. It is a contractual obligation.
    There is a valid argument to be made that it is not enforceable, though. Possible it may be construed as an unfair restraint on trade. There was an undercurrent of skepticism, even when the exit fee initially was agreed to, as to whether it would be enforceable if push really came to shove.

    That's neither here nor there, though, w/r/t the absurd counterclaim. UMd may have a legitimate argument as to the original claim brought by the ACC, but the counterclaim is just stupid. It's got Rule 12(b)(6) written all over it IMO.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    ... I think they are looking for a charter member discount on the exit fee.
    I believe we should give them a charter member discount on the exit fee, provided they settle up on their unpaid fines for arson, being stupid-in-public, uncouthness, assault (physical), assault (verbal), hate crimes, conspiracy to commit a fake rivalry, slander, libel, failure to understand basic math, failure to follow generally accepted accounting practices, and all-around-butt-ugliness. $718 million should do it.

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