Possible Changes

[adukeforduke]

Very disappointed in the way Duke played against Clemson today and pretty much the whole season. We really haven't beat a good team yet; maybe michigan and ucla but their in no way world beaters. The team has a lot of talent (I think) but this is the most underachieving and hard to watch Duke team Ive seen in recent memory.

So heres the problems I see and the changes I would make to the team now.

Marshall needs to get 20-25 mins a game and we will see what he can do. From what Ive seen of him defensively I just don't get him playing little to no minutes per game. He could be a real difference maker and can stop Jabari and Amile from playing out of position. A lineup of Quinn, Hood, Jabari, Amile, and Marshall with Dawkins and Sheed being the first off the bench sounds like the best lineup to me.

Josh just can't get it done and needs to play basically none sorry. Hell, I would trade him for several of the Clemson bigs and can say the same about post players on almost any team we've played. He has the worst hands of any Duke player Ive ever seen.

Thornton should be played only in certain situations (creating a spark when the team is showing less effort/focus, etc.) But needs to lose most of his PT to sheed, dawkins, and jones. I think every team can use a Thornton; hes not afraid to foul and play a little dirty when needed but the talent just isn't there to play significant minutes at Duke.

Im starting to think Quinn isn't a point guard that can beat high-level teams with any consistency. He has shown good ability to drive and finish with his great spin move but gets blocked far too much due to lack of quickness and athleticism. He also doesn't pass to open players when he drives (sub-par court vision). Im not sure how to fix this however, since hes really our only option at the PG this year. Maybe getting the ball out of his hands and letting Jabari or Hood play the point forward on certain possessions is worth a try. Thornton could also spell Quinn for a few minutes; he would be a pass-first Point Guard.

Thoughts and additional fixes??

[NashvilleDevil]

Thoughts? This thread will be locked in 10 minutes.

[Karl Beem]

Yes MP3 should play. However, who exactly is going to play instead of TT and Jiggy? Our guards were crap today. Jiggy only got 8 minutes. Maybe he should have played more.

[sagegrouse]

Thornton should be played only in certain situations (creating a spark when the team is showing less effort/focus, etc.) But needs to lose most of his PT to sheed, dawkins, and jones. I think every team can use a Thornton; hes not afraid to foul and play a little dirty when needed but the talent just isn't there to play significant minutes at Duke.

How about "playing hard," which Tyler was doing? He didn't have a lot of company in doing so. Three of his fouls were to stop easy baskets (one went in anyway), when other players failed to defend.

I expect Tyler to start Monday night, given the lack of production from Rasheed, Quinn, and Andre.

[wsb3]

I don't know what would happen if Marshall got left on the court for more than 2 minutes. It sure could not hurt to see. How could he have been good enough to be the sixth man his freshman year, get injured and now can't get a whiff of the court. Well as stated earlier I guess I don't believe much that is said in the off season. Except maybe Hood was the best offensive player on the team last year as has been said often, but there is another side to the ball.

[vick]

I don't know what would happen if Marshall got left on the court for more than 2 minutes. It sure could not hurt to see. How could he have been good enough to be the sixth man his freshman year, get injured and now can't get a whiff of the court. Well as stated earlier I guess I don't believe much that is said in the off season. Except maybe Hood was the best offensive player on the team last year as has been said often, but there is another side to the ball.

What? Of course it could, what has Marshall done in his two years at Duke to indicate he is not a very poor--by ACC standards--player on the offensive end of the court, and frankly not great on defense either? You guys are acting like barely in the top-25 is as bad as it gets. Ask fans of any other school in the country whether that's the case. I'm not saying playing Plumlee would necessarily make us worse--though I sure as heck don't see what other people are seeing, and for certain it isn't in his numbers. Would we certainly be worse? Of course not. But definitely possible.

[CDu]

I don't know what would happen if Marshall got left on the court for more than 2 minutes. It sure could not hurt to see. How could he have been good enough to be the sixth man his freshman year, get injured and now can't get a whiff of the court. Well as stated earlier I guess I don't believe much that is said in the off season. Except maybe Hood was the best offensive player on the team last year as has been said often, but there is another side to the ball.

Well, the easy answer is that Plumlee wasn't really anywhere near our sixth man at any point last year. Coach K was just dropping some coachspeak on us. If Coach K really believed that then I would argue that our practices just aren't a good indicator of who should play. My guess is its the former: Plumlee just wasn't really a top-6 player.

[CatDevil]

Yes MP3 should play. However, who exactly is going to play instead of TT and Jiggy? Our guards were crap today. Jiggy only got 8 minutes. Maybe he should have played more.

I had not heard "Jiggy" before tonight. In a pretty nasty mood but that made me laugh outloud...don't know why but it tickled my funny bone.

[_Gary]

Well, the easy answer is that Plumlee wasn't really anywhere near our sixth man at any point last year. Coach K was just dropping some coachspeak on us. If Coach K really believed that then I would argue that our practices just aren't a good indicator of who should play. My guess is its the former: Plumlee just wasn't really a top-6 player.

I'm not sure what's happened with Marshall, but I don't think last season's early comments were just "coachspeak." Practice reports and such seemed to indicate he really was playing well, and I've never had the impression that Coach K engages in that type of hyperbole when it comes to such matters. He generally says what he really believes, imho.

[Matches]

Well, the easy answer is that Plumlee wasn't really anywhere near our sixth man at any point last year. Coach K was just dropping some coachspeak on us. If Coach K really believed that then I would argue that our practices just aren't a good indicator of who should play. My guess is its the former: Plumlee just wasn't really a top-6 player.

Possible. Also possible that MP3 was playing really well until he hurt his foot, and has just never gotten his groove back.

[Dukehky]

I'm not sure what's happened with Marshall, but I don't think last season's early comments were just "coachspeak." Practice reports and such seemed to indicate he really was playing well, and I've never had the impression that Coach K engages in that type of hyperbole when it comes to such matters. He generally says what he really believes, imho.

Josh Hairston is 6'7 with a low vertical, and he's not real quick. He's is one of our centers. K loves Hairston, so that's who we are going to see, but I find it really hard to believe that Marshall could prove to be less effective than Josh.

[wsb3]

Josh Hairston is 6'7 with a low vertical, and he's not real quick. He's is one of our centers. K loves Hairston, so that's who we are going to see, but I find it really hard to believe that Marshall could prove to be less effective than Josh.

All emotion aside I think this post makes the most sense. Maybe Marshall would not help but with this lineup and the same repeated problems don't you have to try? i really worry that Parker is getting worn out just like Kyle did by playing out of position.

As far as coach speak from earlier post, one of many things I have admired about him is honesty. Remember when UNC had a super team and was killing us & he said, They are simply better than we are. So no I don't believe it was Coach speak.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

K sees MP3 every day at practice. K also sees where our weak interior spots are.

We see moments of exuberance in garbage time.

Don't you think that if Marshall was some sort of hidden gem, Coach K might have identified him as such in the past three years?

Seriously, for all of you clamoring for more play... what ia the conceivable reason fof K to hold him back?

I will assume that K sees he isn't ready. Play with what you have, not what you wish guys were. Unless we are packing it in and developing next year's players. And if you think Coach K is playing for next year, you haven't been paying attention for the last 30 years.

As far as what changes are called for... I have a hard time seeing it. We are talented and inexperienced. We have insane talent on the perimeter with shooters and guys who can create their own shot.

I would like to see us push the pace on offense, score in bunches, and play some pressure defense. Our strengths are all outside the paint, and I want us to impose our will on other teams rather than letting other teams feel us out and exploit their advantages.

My two cents...

Go Duke!

[Dukehky]

K sees MP3 every day at practice. K also sees where our weak interior spots are.

We see moments of exuberance in garbage time.

Don't you think that if Marshall was some sort of hidden gem, Coach K might have identified him as such in the past three years?

Seriously, for all of you clamoring for more play... what ia the conceivable reason fof K to hold him back?

I will assume that K sees he isn't ready. Play with what you have, not what you wish guys were. Unless we are packing it in and developing next year's players. And if you think Coach K is playing for next year, you haven't been paying attention for the last 30 years.

As far as what changes are called for... I have a hard time seeing it. We are talented and inexperienced. We have insane talent on the perimeter with shooters and guys who can create their own shot.

I would like to see us push the pace on offense, score in bunches, and play some pressure defense. Our strengths are all outside the paint, and I want us to impose our will on other teams rather than letting other teams feel us out and exploit their advantages.

My two cents...

Go Duke!

What have you seen that makes you think that we can play effective pressure defense? I think if anything we need to back off. Sulaimon is the only guy who has shown that he can pressure the ball and stay in front of his man.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What have you seen that makes you think that we can play effective pressure defense? I think if anything we need to back off. Sulaimon is the only guy who has shown that he can pressure the ball and stay in front of his man.

I am saying we have a wealth of athletic, quick, savvy guys at 1, 2 and 3 and we can score quickly. Let's use that to our advantage instead of scoring 22 points in a half and getting outrebounded.

[Dukehky]

I am saying we have a wealth of athletic, quick, savvy guys at 1, 2 and 3 and we can score quickly. Let's use that to our advantage instead of scoring 22 points in a half and getting outrebounded.

I agree with your assessment of our athletes, but they haven't shown they can guard like I think you want. Pressure defense also takes people farther away from the basket, which makes our lack of size more evident on the defensive boards. Jefferson and Parker aren't strong enough, and parker not a good enough rebounder to get all those rebounds by themselves, which they will be left to do if everyone is extended into pressure positions. We try and pressure the ball as it is, and I think extending that pressure will only make our defense worse. Other point guards feast on Quinn's pressure defense. Use that length to disrupt passing lanes closer to the basket.

Also, when we play QC and TT together, which K does fairly frequently, there goes our athleticism and quickness on the perimeter.

Our aggressive hedging 30 feet from the hoop also just destroys us. If you're going to insist on doing that, then at least trap it.

[Wildling]

I am saying we have a wealth of athletic, quick, savvy guys at 1, 2 and 3 and we can score quickly. Let's use that to our advantage instead of scoring 22 points in a half and getting outrebounded.

Can I get an amen!

I liked this team better when we were up and down the court dropping 80 and 90 points and no defense, rather than scoring 50 and 60 and still no defense.

[SoCalDukeFan]

To see Parker and Hood get some assists.

DoCal

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree with your assessment of our athletes, but they haven't shown they can guard like I think you want. Pressure defense also takes people farther away from the basket, which makes our lack of size more evident on the defensive boards. Jefferson and Parker aren't strong enough, and parker not a good enough rebounder to get all those rebounds by themselves, which they will be left to do if everyone is extended into pressure positions. We try and pressure the ball as it is, and I think extending that pressure will only make our defense worse. Other point guards feast on Quinn's pressure defense. Use that length to disrupt passing lanes closer to the basket.

Also, when we play QC and TT together, which K does fairly frequently, there goes our athleticism and quickness on the perimeter.

You may be right, but I guess I see it as a more likely path to success than wishing MP3 turn into a unicorn and put the team on his back as a high-impact shot blocking dynamo.

I'd rather see us develop our stengths and force our will than place all our hopes on an underdeveloped oft-injured good kid who isn't ready.

[Dukehky]

You may be right, but I guess I see it as a more likely path to success than wishing MP3 turn into a unicorn and put the team on his back as a high-impact shot blocking dynamo.

I'd rather see us develop our stengths and force our will than place all our hopes on an underdeveloped oft-injured good kid who isn't ready.

Don't need Marshall to pack it in defensively. In fact, I think as you say I wish he was Marshall is more necessary to the style of defense you propose more so than it would the other. Help defense is closer and thus negates the need for a rim protector/beast rebounder than is necessary in a pressure defense style (Louisville last year had Dieng, pressured like crazy but he could play eraser a lot of the time). I would like to see Marshall play more, but I don't think its happening hence my desire for a more compressed defensive philosophy. It works like a zone does, without being a zone.

Regardless, I think that Rasheed should be on the primary ball handler no matter what defense we play. He would be most effective in either style IMO