half serious idea about who to replace ted roof with

[formerdukeathlete]

The engineer geek in me questions your numbers. First, I definitely did not include the open end zone, only the current configuration. Closing the end zone would add a lot (the end zone is where most of the seats were added for the Rose Bowl), but would also be the only "structure" in the stadium (ie, steel and superstructure, instead of built into the hill.) That would be even more expensive. I still think about 700 seats per row added is a good estimate. You'd add more if the stands that used to be in the concourse were added back.

Anyway, I have the Durham County 2005 GIS aerial photos on my computer, so I can measure distances in pretty close detail. From the 50 yard line (actually the white "buffer" around the field) there's 73 feet to the stands. That's essentially the furthest separation in the stadium. The closest separation perpendicular to the field is at the corner of the end zone (closed end of horseshoe), at 37 feet.

Over at the evil ones' place 11 miles away, using Google Earth, it appears to be about 62 feet to the stands. As I remember it, those seats are essentially at field level, and hard to see a lot. (There is that walkway, which appears to be about twenty feet wide.) So their seats are eleven feet closer than ours, however ours have much better viewpoints, being around ten feet above the field level (when I sat there in the band, I could see the field over the players' heads.)

Google Earth for UGA is less clear, but it appears to be about 60 feet from edge of field to stands. Wisconsin is about 60 feet to the stands as well, from Google Earth I think you can see the seats added when the track was removed. It appears the track was much further back from the field, and they had a lot more space to work with in 1958. Kansas, whose horseshoe is straight on the sidelines, rather than curved like ours, UW, UGA, is ~45 feet.

Sixty feet seems to be the standard of these stadiums with the curved stands (the curved stands allows the seats to be oriented to the center, with better sight lines.) Carter-Finley is only about 25 feet, but the stands are higher, and from games I've attended there, the room on the sidelines is perhaps too narrow. Giants Stadium is about 45 feet.

So, from all of this, I believe it's clear that you will NOT get a lot of seats from removing the track from Wallace Wade. Certainly not worth the expense of relocating the track facilities elsewhere, and lowering the field (if it can be done, not sure of the water table in that area, but it is one of the lowest points on campus.)

(BTW, you still haven't ID'd a place to relocate the track. Or are you proposing getting rid of the track teams?)

Keenan at UNC is unusual. Carter Finley worth a closer look. Take a look at Cal's stadium - a natural bowl type of thing where the seats are right up to the field - where sideline seats are also about 25 feet from the field.

I am not talking necessarily of enclosing the horseshoe, but rather simply adding endzone seats along the downgrade to the field as the field is lowered in connection with removing the track.

At the enclosed oval end, seats can come right up to the endzone. at the open end, which can remain open, seats come right up to the endzone, but the number of rows is probably between 8 and 10, with no "superstructure." This preserves the openess of the stadium. We add up to 6-10 k in capacity in this fashion, and were we to add superstructure to enclose the horseshoe, we add aomething like 15k - but your study may provide better info. that what I have.

as to where to locate the track, Jarhead has posted that there are two locations, with one more interesting because it is adjacent to cross country trails.

It is very helpful that seating capacity may be added at a later date without disturbing the renovations along the concourse. re the water table - certainly we redo the drainage plumbing under the field and have sump pumps like a number of below grade fields. I doubt the water table is that high there - as you point out - this may be an issue.

[merry]

as to where to locate the track, Jarhead has posted that there are two locations, with one more interesting because it is adjacent to cross country trails.

I may have missed another discussion on this, but I think this is what you mean. In another thread Jarhead said:

There are two parcels of land on the south side of Cameron Blvd that might be used, but there would be tons of problems with either. Just to the west of the Golf course and faculty club area close to US 15/501 is a small area in which a stadium of about Wade's size would fit. Not very good choice. On the east side of the golf course between the driving range and 751 is a larger area very close to the existing stadium complex that would be better suited, but if I lived over that way along Pinecrest, I would be demonstrating with all my might against putting a stadium there.

Was there another discussion of relocating the track specifically? I live in this section of Durham and go to the running trail, Faculty Club etc. pretty often. The area between the driving range and 751 is a combination of a pretty decent sized hill and a recently restored wetland. To put anything at all big in that space would require a huge amount of displacement of earth and there would likely be other logistics problems. Not saying it could not be done but it would really problematic.

The other area near 15-501 I am even more puzzled about. The running trail and golf course run VERY close to 15-501 on that side. There is one short piece of the running trail that is not adjacent to the golf course, between the Faculty Club and 15-501. At this point the running trail is less than .2 mile from the 15-501/751 exit ramp. So this is a really quite small area.

[Bluedawg]

Tom Knotts. over the past 7 years he is 109-1

[cspan37421]

I'm tellin' ya, Lloyd Carr will soon be available.

[TheTrain]

Big deal if Lloyd Carr leaves Michigan...he is 62, trust me he will retire from Ann Arbor and never look back

[Bluedawg]

My first vote is Jerry Moore

Second vote is Rod Broadway

Don't really have a third.

[Indoor66]

My first vote is Jerry Moore

Second vote is Rod Broadway

Don't really have a third.

NEVER a Tar Heel!

[Bluedawg]

NEVER a Tar Heel!

Rod Broadway wins ballgames.

[formerdukeathlete]

Du82,

I watched a number of games over the weekend, including the Wake, BC, Va Tech, and Penn State games.

Atmosphere and fan support were outstanding, with the fans very loudly into the games. It looked to me that sideline seats at Wake, LSU and BC were very close - within 20 feet of the field. Penn State might have been 25 feet away. The week before I watched Cal beat Tennessee - sideline was right up to the field. Enzone seats in all were right up to the field.

Game day at Wade would be terrifically enhanced with students sitting right up to the field. When Wade is renovated, forward thinking would make allowance for greater bathroom, concessions capacity - to overbuild in this regard. Were we to remove the track, lower the field, and bring seats right down to it, we would have the issue covered.

UVa attracted 58k for the Duke game. I have to think with a good product we can draw over 40k.

Speaking of Central Florida - their trustees approved a new stadium after a winless season. Now they are filling their new digs of 45k, with expansion eventually to 65k.

So we are on the right track renovating Wade - I say, we need to be bold, visionary and "Just Do It" And, find a new place for the track. We have the land.

[newbdisapain]

NEVER a Tar Heel!

Coach Broadway also was an assistant at Duke for a number of years and was very popular. With his ties to the area, he would have a headstart on local recruiting, which would be a big help.

[JBDuke]

... Penn State might have been 25 feet away. ...

UVa attracted 58k for the Duke game. I have to think with a good product we can draw over 40k.

...

A couple of comments...

Having seen several games in Penn State's Beaver Stadium, I can say with some certainty that the closest seats are nowhere near 25 feet from the sideline. Thirty-five, maybe, but maybe further than that.

Second, I was at the Duke-UVA game in Charlottesville on Saturday, and there's no way they had 58,000 in the seats. They may have sold that many tickets, but between my brother and I, we figured that the crowd was at most 55,000 and was probably closer to 50,000. There were a LOT of empty seats.

As for drawing 40K fans, I think that's a real long shot. You seem to be comparing us to UVA, but the Cavs have almost 3 times our undergrad population, so there are a lot more alumni out there, and while they don't stay in C'ville, there are hordes of UVA grads within two hours of campus, mostly in Northern Virginia and Richmond. Duke's alumni tend to venture further from campus when they graduate. Combined with our smaller size, it results in a very small local alumni base from which to draw the most loyal of fans.

Where Duke does have an advantage over UVA is in its proximity to a large population. The Triangle holds a lot of folks, and there are a significant number of casual Duke fans. If Duke football became a quality product and won games with some frequency, I have no doubt we could draw from this fan base to our advantage. But still, I think we don't even consider expanding Wally Wade capacity until we see the need. There are a lot better things to be spending money on right now...

[Bluedawg]

A couple of comments...

Having seen several games in Penn State's Beaver Stadium, I can say with some certainty that the closest seats are nowhere near 25 feet from the sideline. Thirty-five, maybe, but maybe further than that.

Second, I was at the Duke-UVA game in Charlottesville on Saturday, and there's no way they had 58,000 in the seats. They may have sold that many tickets, but between my brother and I, we figured that the crowd was at most 55,000 and was probably closer to 50,000. There were a LOT of empty seats.

As for drawing 40K fans, I think that's a real long shot. You seem to be comparing us to UVA, but the Cavs have almost 3 times our undergrad population, so there are a lot more alumni out there, and while they don't stay in C'ville, there are hordes of UVA grads within two hours of campus, mostly in Northern Virginia and Richmond. Duke's alumni tend to venture further from campus when they graduate. Combined with our smaller size, it results in a very small local alumni base from which to draw the most loyal of fans.

Where Duke does have an advantage over UVA is in its proximity to a large population. The Triangle holds a lot of folks, and there are a significant number of casual Duke fans. If Duke football became a quality product and won games with some frequency, I have no doubt we could draw from this fan base to our advantage. But still, I think we don't even consider expanding Wally Wade capacity until we see the need. There are a lot better things to be spending money on right now...

Agreed.

Although I vastly prefer seats closer to the field that can always be done later. now I feel the important upgrades are everywhere else. the only change I'd make to the seating now is to take out the bench seats and putting in actual stadium seats.

[formerdukeathlete]

http://www.scoreboard.msnbc.com/msnb...sport=ncaafb1a

certainly, no shows may have not shown.

[mapei]

certainly, no shows may have not shown.

That reads like a zen koan.

[JBDuke]

http://www.scoreboard.msnbc.com/msnb...sport=ncaafb1a

certainly, no shows may have not shown.

Yep - it was the announcement of the crowd of 58,000+ that had my brother and I both saying "No way". There were way too many empty seats for that big a crowd. There were certainly several thousand no shows.