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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    I know the Red Sox have this huge payroll (I thought both the Mets and Yankees were bigger), but in the end they didn't pull the trigger with A-Rod, the Yankees did.
    So you don't think NY is getting enough out of the $16M they are paying Alex Rodriguez this year? I mean I can see the argument that all those guys are overpaid, but I bet a lot of teams would have been willing to pay that much for a guy with his kind of production this year (MVP, right?). Do you really think that is out of line, or do you just not like him (that I could understand, I guess).

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bhd28 View Post
    So you don't think NY is getting enough out of the $16M they are paying Alex Rodriguez this year? I mean I can see the argument that all those guys are overpaid, but I bet a lot of teams would have been willing to pay that much for a guy with his kind of production this year (MVP, right?). Do you really think that is out of line, or do you just not like him (that I could understand, I guess).
    I don't think many will dispute the value that Rodriguez has provided this year, even last year, etc. Looking at Cot's Baseball Contracts on the web, they are likely paying him closer to $20 million this year, how much the Texas Rangers are paying the Yankees is difficult to estimate.(Cot's is using a flat lined $7 million per year). It is the Giambi $21 million, the Jeter $20 million, Abreu $15 million that are a little more suspect.

    Where'd all the Kleenex go?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by bhd28 View Post
    So you don't think NY is getting enough out of the $16M they are paying Alex Rodriguez this year? I mean I can see the argument that all those guys are overpaid, but I bet a lot of teams would have been willing to pay that much for a guy with his kind of production this year (MVP, right?). Do you really think that is out of line, or do you just not like him (that I could understand, I guess).
    Actually my point was, and I'll admit I didn't state it well, that the Red Sox are very occasionally frugal. They were trying for A-Rod and for a couple of days it looked like it was going to happen but in the end it came down to money the Sox were unwilling to spend.

    If it had happened, the Sox wouldn't have either Manny or Lowell right now, and that would be sad. YmoBeThere, why won't they have Lowell after this year? Who else is out there they'd sign over him? I believe he's on record as wanting to stay. Why wouldn't they keep him? If the answer is money, hey, prove my point again. But it will depress me, spend that money on Lowell, please!

    Red Sox fans and angst are a match made in heaven.

  4. #24
    My guess is that Theo is thinking that he can use Youkilis at 3rd, Hinske at 1st with a few more games out of Ortiz in that position. Ellsbury can fill in full time in the outfield, giving Manny some time to DH with Ortiz. You will start to see more expected out of some of the younger guys. There is an off chance that they might make a run at A-Rod, which would make Lowell expendable.

    Where'd all the Kleenex go?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    Actually my point was, and I'll admit I didn't state it well, that the Red Sox are very occasionally frugal. They were trying for A-Rod and for a couple of days it looked like it was going to happen but in the end it came down to money the Sox were unwilling to spend.
    It seems like they've recently overcome that frugality. How else do we explain $50 million for the right to _talk_ to DiceK?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    My guess is that Theo is thinking that he can use Youkilis at 3rd, Hinske at 1st with a few more games out of Ortiz in that position.

    This would surprise me. I believe Youkilis is errorless at first base this season and Lowell is way more consistent at the plate than Hinske. You could make the argument that this is because Hinske doesn't get to the plate all that often, which makes it hard to hit well, but I don't see Theo making the decision to play Hinske on a daily basis. Orsillo and Remy, the NESN commentators have said several times this season that Lowell is making the case to stay on the Sox. All the players enjoy him and he's often been called the "ultimate team player".

  7. #27
    Agreed that they should keep Lowell, but it will likely take a multi-year contract(3+) at a per year price that they don't necessarily want to pay. Plus, if they get into the A-Rod bidding(whose bat would more than make up for Lowell) obviously they wouldn't need both. Youkilis could stay at first base in that scenario.

    Where'd all the Kleenex go?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    I don't think many will dispute the value that Rodriguez has provided this year, even last year, etc. Looking at Cot's Baseball Contracts on the web, they are likely paying him closer to $20 million this year, how much the Texas Rangers are paying the Yankees is difficult to estimate.(Cot's is using a flat lined $7 million per year). It is the Giambi $21 million, the Jeter $20 million, Abreu $15 million that are a little more suspect.
    Oh... I went by this:
    "Under the deal, the Yankees pay Rodriguez $15 million in each of the next three seasons, $16 million each in 2007 and 2008, $17 million in 2009 and $18 million in 2010, according to contract information obtained by the AP from player and management sources."
    from:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1735937

  9. #29
    Sounds like I need to get better sources!

    Where'd all the Kleenex go?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    Actually my point was, and I'll admit I didn't state it well, that the Red Sox are very occasionally frugal. They were trying for A-Rod and for a couple of days it looked like it was going to happen but in the end it came down to money the Sox were unwilling to spend.

    If it had happened, the Sox wouldn't have either Manny or Lowell right now, and that would be sad. YmoBeThere, why won't they have Lowell after this year? Who else is out there they'd sign over him? I believe he's on record as wanting to stay. Why wouldn't they keep him? If the answer is money, hey, prove my point again. But it will depress me, spend that money on Lowell, please!

    Red Sox fans and angst are a match made in heaven.
    you guys are not recalling the arod/red sox dating game correctly. arod and the red sox AGREED on a deal but then the players' union struck it down because arod was agreeing to lower his comp:

    http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/6935544

    i never quite understood how a player with a $250MM contract, who is lawyered and agented up with the best in the business, cannot agree to lower his comp down if he feels like it. the whole idea of having a union represent some of the richest people in the world is a whole other discussion that i won't get into here.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    No, I'm remembering correctly. A-Rod agreed to lower his pay, the Sox weren't willing to make a deal unless he did. The players union (Thanks, Gene) nixed it. The Yankees were willing to pay the full amount, although I do believe the deal included some of the salary coming from the Rangers.

    Yes, in MLB the player's union is the one with more power unlike the NFL where the owners hold the bigger end of the wishbone.

  12. #32
    *Insert Jaws music here...

    A lot of nervous Sox fans around the office today

    Where'd all the Kleenex go?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    *Insert Jaws music here...

    A lot of nervous Sox fans around the office today
    the yankees are not catching the sox, but it really doesn't matter. The 4 teams who make the AL playoffs are all capable of knocking each other off. And one of em will whup on whoever the NL sends to the WS.

    On a side note - this was a pretty crazy story:
    The star closer was stretching late in Sunday night's game against the Red Sox, preparing to warm up, when an errant toss hit him on both bare hands. Rivera initially thought the ball might have come from the stands, but more likely it was a wild throw that sailed out of Boston's nearby bullpen.

    Imagine if this were to happen in a really important game and Rivera couldn't pitch and the sox were to come back and win!

  14. #34
    Hmm, St. Louis Cardinals...83 wins, WS Champions for 2006.

    The Sox fans were a little more worried about a collapse that sends them out of the playoffs altogether. A bit of a stretch but if Detroit gets hot. As of this moment 2.5 ahead of the Yankees and only 5 games ahead of Detroit.

    Where'd all the Kleenex go?

  15. #35
    And now it is 1.5 games

    Where'd all the Kleenex go?

  16. #36
    This has been a bad week to be a Boston area sports fan. Belichick holding a stiff upper lip against righteous indignation from the rest of football world and the Sox stumbling to the finish.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!

    This is fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    And now it is 1.5 games
    Yes. Yes it is!

    Sox fans, look at it this way: you have a 6 1/2 game lead, 7 in the loss column, over the Tigers for the wild card spot.

    Both the Yankees and the Red Sox are most likely, probably, hopefully going to make the playoffs (doing my level best not to weauxf here )
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    "Actually my point was, and I'll admit I didn't state it well, that the Red Sox are very occasionally frugal."

    The Yankees are the team showing unexpected frugality. Look at the most recent off-season. Traded Johnson and Sheffield and didn't get a single, high-profile player but did get some young arms. The Yanks let Boston outbid them for Dice-K, didn't even try on Zito--a decision that looks pretty good right now--opting for the much cheaper Pettitte. The Yanks big stretch-run additions this year were Molina and Betemit. And look at the products the farm system is giving them; Cano, Wang, Cabrera, Duncan, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy.

    Sure the Yankees have the financial resources to play by their own set of rules but I think we need to acknowledge their increased committment to building a team the old-fashioned way.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!

    Yankees next year

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    The Yanks big stretch-run additions this year were Molina and Betemit. And look at the products the farm system is giving them; Cano, Wang, Cabrera, Duncan, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy.

    Sure the Yankees have the financial resources to play by their own set of rules but I think we need to acknowledge their increased committment to building a team the old-fashioned way.
    The Yankees will be a very young team next year, both on the mound and on the field. Not counting on Roger except maybe for a late year appearance, the rotation will include Wang, Pettitte and Moose (neither young), Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain. Chamberlain is supposed to be a starter, but as dominant as he is in relief, if Mariano doesn't re-sign with the Yanks expect Joba to be the closer. And the outfield will include the Melk-man and probably Duncan (in place of Abreu), to go with Cano at second. Jeter can't possibly be in his 30s all ready? The problem will be if Posada doesn't re-sign. But I think both Mo and Jorge will be back in pinstripes to finish their careers.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Sure the Yankees have the financial resources to play by their own set of rules but I think we need to acknowledge their increased committment to building a team the old-fashioned way.
    Let's see what they do this off season, especially if the Red Sox hang on, and even more if they don't win the Series. One year does not constitute a trend.

    And yes, Ozzie, I'm not happy this morning, but weauf away if you'd like. I am happy though to get out of Toronto, the Sox haven't played well there this year. Maybe the Devil Rays will be just what they need right now.
    Last edited by Bostondevil; 09-20-2007 at 09:45 AM.

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