PJ Hairston Gone!

[-jk]

And some folks thought I had ruined Christmas last PM .

Well, you tried!

-jk

[devildeac]

Well, you tried!

-jk

Bah, humbug! (kidding, kidding)

[duke4ever19]

This is a fine time to summarize what has been going on over at UNC the last several years.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/12/...apel-hill.html

[ncexnyc]

Based on the Kanter ruling, I find it hard to see how PJ could still be practicing with the team.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...tly+ineligible

[OldPhiKap]

Based on the Kanter ruling, I find it hard to see how PJ could still be practicing with the team.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...tly+ineligible

And based on the statement put out by PJ's family, I doubt he will anyway.

Could get ugly.

[Dukehky]

It sounds like the more powerful institution kind of hung the kid out to dry. I'm not really thrilled with the whole celebratory nature that a lot of people have taken on this decision. A kid's college career has just essentially ended. Yeah, he did stupid things, probably more stupid than most people would have done but he's still just a kid, who got very little support from an institution he gave 2 years of hard work to. Also, I've been given infractions before while playfully indicating that I wished blank player would fall over in warm-ups and be out for the game (obviously a joke), but it's okay to wish that kids from other schools make boneheaded moves and are punished in ways in which they have no recourse? I know it's not exactly the same, this whole thing just kind of rubs me the wrong way. The NCAA and college administrations are, for the most part, bullies who will do anything to protect themselves and each other, while not hesitating to drop the hammer on kids. Duke has done the same thing, that was a while ago now, and it was a completely different scenario, but Duke kicked those lacrosse kids out of school to cover its backside. Well, with all the lawsuits, it came back to bite them in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. a little bit, and I hope PJ gets a little retribution at UNC too.

UNC wouldn't even try to get him reinstated, not even a shot in the dark effort? If I were Hairston, and UNC did anything wrong that he knew about, I would tell the NCAA every single thing I knew.

I hope he has a solid career in the league because he's got a lot of talent, and I hope he grows up, because he needs to.

I'm sure this isn't going to be a very popular sentiment, and all the fun puns people use are understandable, and it happened to a rival school that has had a lot of problems in this area before, but we are just railing on a kid who made a mistake, even a series of mistakes, which makes the razzing more understandable. I just wanted to get my opinion on the matter out there before we forget all about this in a few weeks. I'm not surprised PJ is done, and would have been more understanding if HIS SCHOOL HAD EVEN TRIED TO TAKE A LONG SHOT TO GET HIM REINSTATED. If you want to trash somebody, trash UNC and the adminstration, not the kid. He's been punished enough (I know, he's probably not reading the thread, but you know, bad vibes coming from DBR can really ruin somebody's day)/

[sagegrouse]

And based on the statement put out by PJ's family, I doubt he will anyway.

Could get ugly.

This could be a bit of a squabble, OR -- Ol' Grouse being the suspicious sort -- it could a pas de deux arranged in advance.

(a) UNC doesn't want the horrid details of PJ and his escapades to come out, so it does not request a reinstatement.

(b) PJ and his family want to maintain a figleaf of innocence so they pronounce themselves truly upset, even spitting mad, that UNC did not request a reinstatement, thereby ending the college career he did not intend to pursue.

Plausible?

sage

[Furniture]

This could be a bit of a squabble, OR -- Ol' Grouse being the suspicious sort -- it could a pas de deux arranged in advance.

(a) UNC doesn't want the horrid details of PJ and his escapades to come out, so it does not request a reinstatement.

(b) PJ and his family want to maintain a figleaf of innocence so they pronounce themselves truly upset, even spitting mad, that UNC did not request a reinstatement, thereby ending the college career he did not intend to pursue.

Plausible?

sage

I do believe it is...

[OldPhiKap]

This could be a bit of a squabble, OR -- Ol' Grouse being the suspicious sort -- it could a pas de deux arranged in advance.

(a) UNC doesn't want the horrid details of PJ and his escapades to come out, so it does not request a reinstatement.

I am confident this is correct.

(b) PJ and his family want to maintain a figleaf of innocence so they pronounce themselves truly upset, even spitting mad, that UNC did not request a reinstatement, thereby ending the college career he did not intend to pursue.

The tone to me does not support this; OPK's guess is that the fine UNC and the NCAA were discussing was more that PJ was willing to do. UNC had said they were working out details with the family, and after LMac it is clear that restitution/disgorgement is part of the deal. I think it more likely that PJ, who considered the NBA draft last year, decided he'd rather chill or make money somewhere for the next few months than pay a fine and still miss some more games.

FWIW, in bold.

[ncexnyc]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I believe both parties deserve each other. Call me a tin foil hat nut case, better suited for Pack Pride than DBR, but I don’t believe this was just some isolated incident.

Based on what we’ve witnessed with UNC’s academic/football scandal, we’ve seen no change whatsoever in how UNC operates. Tons of parking tickets being issued to players, who drive a different car every week (ok, slight exaggeration), stonewalling by the university, complete lack of control by their coach who is clueless as to what is going on and one can only come to the conclusion that they are following a well scripted playbook on how to cheat.

Do I believe PJ was played by UNC? Yes, I do. Do I feel sorry for the kid? No I don’t. He bought into the system and he had a chance to leave the school last spring, but he made the decision to return.

If PJ and his parents really believe they were shafted by UNC then hold a press conference and give their side of the story, or better yet get a lawyer.

I’m also very annoyed when people keep saying PJ’s just a kid and kids make mistakes. Yes, kids do make mistakes, but PJ’s made a whole series of mistakes, which shows me a person who is totally out of control, or who believes he is above the rules because of whom he is, or who he plays for. And one last comment on PJ. On what should be one of the worst days of his life, all he can post on Twitter, is that in 4 days it will be his 21st birthday. I guess now he can legally shotgun a few beers.

[diablesseblu]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I believe both parties deserve each other. Call me a tin foil hat nut case, better suited for Pack Pride than DBR, but I don’t believe this was just some isolated incident.

Based on what we’ve witnessed with UNC’s academic/football scandal, we’ve seen no change whatsoever in how UNC operates. Tons of parking tickets being issued to players, who drive a different car every week (ok, slight exaggeration), stonewalling by the university, complete lack of control by their coach who is clueless as to what is going on and one can only come to the conclusion that they are following a well scripted playbook on how to cheat.

Do I believe PJ was played by UNC? Yes, I do. Do I feel sorry for the kid? No I don’t. He bought into the system and he had a chance to leave the school last spring, but he made the decision to return.

If PJ and his parents really believe they were shafted by UNC then hold a press conference and give their side of the story, or better yet get a lawyer.

I’m also very annoyed when people keep saying PJ’s just a kid and kids make mistakes. Yes, kids do make mistakes, but PJ’s made a whole series of mistakes, which shows me a person who is totally out of control, or who believes he is above the rules because of whom he is, or who he plays for. And one last comment on PJ. On what should be one of the worst days of his life, all he can post on Twitter, is that in 4 days it will be his 21st birthday. I guess now he can legally shotgun a few beers.

Well said!! This, plus the football/AFAM debacle, just screams "lack of institutional control." It's not clear to me that anyone in the UNC athletics department really "gets it" about how tarnished their brand is. They really need to do a complete "reboot" in terms of culture/oversight.

That said, I have little to no sympathy for PJ and/or Roy in this "process" (watch the Roy presser for the ultimate overuse of that word!).

[wk2109]

I've been following this story from the beginning (mainly through the threads on DBR) and I feel like today's announcement raised more unanswered questions:

Perhaps I'm missing something, but if UNC is not applying for PJ's "reinstatement," doesn't that necessarily imply that PJ was suspended or in some non-active status with the NCAA? Was it ever announced that the NCAA had suspended PJ or was not permitting him to play? Why did UNC/Roy make it seem like they were making the choice to hold PJ out while the NCAA finished its investigation? If the rumors are true that the NCAA handed down the suspension several months ago, UNC appealed, and UNC lost the appeal, what exactly does UNC get out of spinning the story like they did?

Unless there are some crazy unknown facts, this doesn't seem that much worse than other cases of impermissible benefits/criminal charges. Not that I'm saying what he did wasn't that bad, but plenty of NCAA athletes have been caught receiving benefits and plenty have been arrested for making stupid decisions -- is it the combination that makes this case unique? Why would UNC try to hide what was going on? It's not like the media hadn't written all about the Fats connection, speeding tickets, and whatever else happened with PJ. The logical thing for a school to do would be to announce that the NCAA suspended PJ indefinitely for his many transgressions, not to hide the NCAA suspension. Was UNC just being stupid or was UNC being shady?

There's still something fishy about this whole story -- UNC might think today's announcement allows them to wipe their hands clean of this matter, but I don't think it does.

[FerryFor50]

Remember when Duke was recruiting PJ?

Let's think about the bullets Duke has dodged...

PJ Hairston
Shabazz Muhammad
Tony Parker

I'm sure there are plenty of others. Those are just the ones at the top of my mind...

[Dukehky]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I believe both parties deserve each other. Call me a tin foil hat nut case, better suited for Pack Pride than DBR, but I don’t believe this was just some isolated incident.

Based on what we’ve witnessed with UNC’s academic/football scandal, we’ve seen no change whatsoever in how UNC operates. Tons of parking tickets being issued to players, who drive a different car every week (ok, slight exaggeration), stonewalling by the university, complete lack of control by their coach who is clueless as to what is going on and one can only come to the conclusion that they are following a well scripted playbook on how to cheat.

Do I believe PJ was played by UNC? Yes, I do. Do I feel sorry for the kid? No I don’t. He bought into the system and he had a chance to leave the school last spring, but he made the decision to return.

If PJ and his parents really believe they were shafted by UNC then hold a press conference and give their side of the story, or better yet get a lawyer.

I’m also very annoyed when people keep saying PJ’s just a kid and kids make mistakes. Yes, kids do make mistakes, but PJ’s made a whole series of mistakes, which shows me a person who is totally out of control, or who believes he is above the rules because of whom he is, or who he plays for. And one last comment on PJ. On what should be one of the worst days of his life, all he can post on Twitter, is that in 4 days it will be his 21st birthday. I guess now he can legally shotgun a few beers.

I can jive with this. He did screw up probably beyond repair in college, and as I said, I would have been comfortable if there had been a decision made by the NCAA to disqualify him. This does just stink on UNC's behalf, in my opinion they do not come out of this situation looking clean like I'm sure they hoped. Well said on all fronts. I didn't mean to sound like a PJ apologist, based on the mistakes he made, because he should have learned after the first round of screw ups, or Roy should have made it abundantly clear that if that behavior continued he'd be gone regardless. Once UNC made the decision to kind of see things through, they should have seen it all the way through. They looked like they were going to make a stand on the kids' behalf, which I support, even if it may have been the wrong move at the time, but they didn't.

[Matches]

I'm not surprised PJ is done, and would have been more understanding if HIS SCHOOL HAD EVEN TRIED TO TAKE A LONG SHOT TO GET HIM REINSTATED. If you want to trash somebody, trash UNC and the adminstration, not the kid. He's been punished enough (I know, he's probably not reading the thread, but you know, bad vibes coming from DBR can really ruin somebody's day)/

Marc James on The Drive yesterday all but said outright that UNC did attempt to get PJ reinstated. They didn't file a formal petition but supposedly have been working with the NCAA for months. According to him the NCAA would have allowed reinstatement but only after a lengthy suspension and a sizeable fine (at least sizeable compared to what McDonald got).

PJ's family (understandably, IMO) did not want to pay the fine just to salvage what would have been a small portion of the season.

I think folks are interpreting "didn't file a petition" as "didn't try to get PJ reinstated", but they're not really the same thing. UNC has been trying for months to get this kid cleared to play, but it's a fairly complex negotiation between the NCAA, the school, and the Hairstons, and it just didn't work out.

[arnie]

Remember when Duke was recruiting PJ?

Let's think about the bullets Duke has dodged...

PJ Hairston
Shabazz Muhammad
Tony Parker

I'm sure there are plenty of others. Those are just the ones at the top of my mind...

Truly believe that under K and our assistants, PJ wouldn't have been close to Fats or his influence. Roy doesn't teach the same values or instill discipline the way K does. In fact, I really believe that's what's makes Roy a great recruiter- come play for me and have a great time, don't worry, be happy.

[OldPhiKap]

The logical thing for a school to do would be to announce that the NCAA suspended PJ indefinitely for his many transgressions, not to hide the NCAA suspension.

That would have been the honest, honorable and fair way. Not #TheCarolinaWay.

[cspan37421]

I’m also very annoyed when people keep saying PJ’s just a kid and kids make mistakes.

Me too. It's one of those "I don't think that word means what you think it means." A mistake implies the person did something accidentally. That's never been the case here.

[lotusland]

Truly believe that under K and our assistants, PJ wouldn't have been close to Fats or his influence. Roy doesn't teach the same values or instill discipline the way K does. In fact, I really believe that's what's makes Roy a great recruiter- come play for me and have a great time, don't worry, be happy.

no way to know that. PJ evidently had a somewhat sketchy past coming in. Being a local kid it's not as easy to leave the old gang behind especially in the off season. The old pals are just a phone call away.

[weezie]

Maybe I can get him to play on my rec league team. Selling point: no drug testing! Heck, I'll even throw in a car rental or two.

Well, ok then. Maybe I should join your team...sounds like a fun bunch!