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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    If anybody saw Olbermann last night ... he had an interesting take on the Griffin situation.

    He suggested that superstars who meddled to get coaches fired were almost always right -- from Magic demanding the replacement of Paul Westhead (with Pat Riley) Jordan getting Doug Collins fired (and replaced with Phil Jackson). There were several; other examples cited ... and I'm sure there are examples that break the other way.

    One other point (it was late and I was half asleep), but it does seem like most of his examples were from the NBA -- the situation may be specific to that league which is superstar driven and not coach-driven.
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Buss was an extraordinary man by any measure; Magic had won a championship, his teammates, all but one, loved and respected him; Reilly was already in place and Buss knew his worth, as presumably did Magic, and there was by-in by Kareem as to the necessity of the move, as he explained in a recently aired documentary about Westhead, notwithstanding how exhilarating Westhead's style of play could and had been.

    Jackson, too, if I am not mistaken, was in place. He was unquestionably the man equipped to bring Jordan within the circle, a circle that no Hollywood movie wannabe could possibly conjure.
    As a Bulls fan, I feel the need to clarify the Jordan/Collins thing. Jordan did not want Collins fired. He did not get Collins fired. And Jackson wasn't a "Jordan request." The firing of Collins had everything to do with a power struggle between Jerry Krause and Doug Collins. Krause had his beliefs on what he wanted, Collins disagreed. Jackson was coaching in the CBA and was a fishing buddy of Krause. So Krause canned Collins and hired Jackson.

    I've long held the belief that the Bulls would have won those titles with Collins just as they did with Jackson. Collins was a brilliant coach. His problem in Chicago was that he didn't have enough talent. He had Jordan, but he had a very young Pippen, Armstrong, and Grant. Despite that, he had gotten the Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals, falling just short of beating the Pistons (the second straight year that the Pistons beat the Bulls in the playoffs).

    Enter Jackson. In the 1990 season, the Bulls were a year older, a year more experienced together, and they again fell to the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals.

    It wasn't until their fourth shot that the Bulls finally toppled the Pistons. But I'd argue that was more a function of Jordan's supporting cast finally coming into their own. Pippen and Grant were entering their fourth seasons and were just finally filling out their bodies (back then, most college players weren't ready for the physicality of the NBA as weight training was not yet en vogue for youngsters). The Bulls finally had a group that was ready to challenge the Pistons. And the Pistons were finally getting older and less ready to battle the younger Bulls. So the Bulls won it all. From there, the rest is history. Jordan and Pippen would team up for 6 titles in their next 6 full seasons together, and Jackson's legend was born.

    But in reality, I think it has less to do with Phil's zen and everything to do with Pippen, Grant, and others finally being ready to complement Jordan in their championship runs. And I think that would have happened anyway had Krause not fired Collins.

    But back to the Collins/Jordan thing. It was Krause, not Jordan, that wanted Collins out. In fact, Jordan thought enough of Collins as a coach to hire him for the Wizards job when Jordan was GM.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    If anybody saw Olbermann last night ... he had an interesting take on the Griffin situation.

    He suggested that superstars who meddled to get coaches fired were almost always right -- from Magic demanding the replacement of Paul Westhead (with Pat Riley) Jordan getting Doug Collins fired (and replaced with Phil Jackson). There were several; other examples cited ... and I'm sure there are examples that break the other way.

    One other point (it was late and I was half asleep), but it does seem like most of his examples were from the NBA -- the situation may be specific to that league which is superstar driven and not coach-driven.
    Who was the Marlins manager that HanRam got run out of town after benching HanRam for loafing? How'd that work out?

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    My Man T, Look Like He Was Dead ON With a Twist

    Looks like Danny got him a very promising head coach, and a buffer, all in the same person. The buffer for whom, big brother John, who is the kicker for the hire, RGIII's own special, secret unofficial but oh so powerful quarterback, personal approach to teammates, PR, and all other things on and off the field, coach/advisor, none other than big brother John, with whom RGIII showed a wonderful rapport during that post draft quarterback debriefing John does with no. 1 draft picks.

    Here's the real kicker. John was all over Cousins as being an enormous talent from the preseason on and advocated well before the move that Cousins be given a chance to show what he's got. RGIII has his best chance to prove himself, but there very definitely is an excellent Plan B, or so it seems, Cousins might still be traded but I doubt it, so it ain't RGIII's team. Probably, will never be unless and until RGIII proves he can be all that. I'd love to see it, but have serious doubts, no longer of the deva front, but for the other reasons stated.

    Danny, I think, has performed admirably throughout and continues to. In fact, this move is special.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Looks like Danny got him a very promising head coach, and a buffer, all in the same person. The buffer for whom, big brother John, who is the kicker for the hire, RGIII's own special, secret unofficial but oh so powerful quarterback, personal approach to teammates, PR, and all other things on and off the field, coach/advisor, none other than big brother John, with whom RGIII showed a wonderful rapport during that post draft quarterback debriefing John does with no. 1 draft picks.

    Here's the real kicker. John was all over Cousins as being an enormous talent from the preseason on and advocated well before the move that Cousins be given a chance to show what he's got. RGIII has his best chance to prove himself, but there very definitely is an excellent Plan B, or so it seems, Cousins might still be traded but I doubt it, so it ain't RGIII's team. Probably, will never be unless and until RGIII proves he can be all that. I'd love to see it, but have serious doubts, no longer of the deva front, but for the other reasons stated.

    Danny, I think, has performed admirably throughout and continues to. In fact, this move is special.
    Anyway, Jay Gruden the offensive coordinator with the Bengals will be announced today as the new Redskins' head coach. He has ties to the organization. But most importantly, he is a member of the Arena Football Hall of Fame.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Anyway, Jay Gruden the offensive coordinator with the Bengals will be announced today as the new Redskins' head coach. He has ties to the organization. But most importantly, he is a member of the Arena Football Hall of Fame.
    Anyone follow Jim Trotter on twitter? His first two tweets following the announcement:

    "Oh, Washington. Lol."

    "Bengals fans, rejoice. This is a great day for you. Your team would still be playing if Hue Jackson had been your coordinator last week."

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