Matt Jones' Offensive Ability

[ArtVandelay]

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I was hoping some posters more in the know might be able to shed some light on this question. If I'm not mistaken, Matt Jones was billed largely as a "sharpshooter" in recruiting circles when he was in high school. From everything I read, he worked hard to improve his driving and defensive abilities later in his H.S. career, but shooting was supposedly his calling card. Is that right?

Based on what I've seen so far, I can't see how that could possibly be the case. Don't get me wrong, this is not meant to be an "attack on Matt" thread. He's earned some significant minutes already based solely (as far as I can tell) on his defense, which is rare for a freshman in K's system. But I see nothing to indicate that he is a good shooter. He has a very unorthodox shot, and the results have not been pretty. While a number of posters have harped on Tyler's lack of offensive production, at least he does bring to the table a skill this team needs: the ability to knock down the occasional open 3-pointer. I really haven't seen anything to suggest that Jones is a better fit for the rotation in this regard than Tyler; he seems like even more of an offensive liability out there. That could easily change, and perhaps Jones' size and defensive prowess will continue to earn him heavy minutes, but I don't see Jones as a solution to the perceived problem that Hairston + Thornton means 3 on 5 basketball on offense.

I pose two questions: (1) Is this an example of the recruiting services being way off on a guys' kills, or was I off-base in my assumptions about what kind of player he would be? (2) For those who advocate for more PT for Jones, what is it on the offensive side of the ball, if anything, that you are seeing that I am missing?

[subzero02]

I like Matt's game a lot, I believe his shooting stroke will come along soon. PJ Hairston came in with the reputation of a sharpshooter but struggled from 3 coming out the gate. As we all know, he eventually developed into a dangerous collegiate shooter( and speeder). I definitely noticed the awkwardness in Matt's shooting form but I am not overly concerned about it for the time being. I think as Matt becomes more comfortable with the speed of the game and his role on the offensive end, more of his shots will begin to fall. He might not ever become an Andre or Seth but he should be significantly more effective than Tyler Thornton as a 3 point threat when it's all said and done.

[roywhite]

I like Matt's game a lot, I believe his shooting stroke will come along soon. PJ Hairston came in with the reputation of a sharpshooter but struggled from 3 coming out the gate. As we all know, he eventually developed into a dangerous collegiate shooter( and speeder). I definitely noticed the awkwardness in Matt's shooting form but I am not overly concerned about it for the time being. I think as Matt becomes more comfortable with the speed of the game and his role on the offensive end, more of his shots will begin to fall. He might not ever become an Andre or Seth but he should be significantly more effective than Tyler Thornton as a 3 point threat when it's all said and done.

Agree. Matt had the reputation as being one of the best 3-point shooters in his recruiting year, and is likely to be a strong 3-point shooter as his career progresses.

A side note here -- good form matters, especially for a young player. As you indicate, Matt is adjusting to the game and the normal freshman hurdles. IF he had the classic, good form of a JJ Redick or Andre Dawkins on his jump shot, that part of the game would translate easier for him. But he doesn't have the textbook, easily repeatable stroke and has to think about his shot along with the other game adjustments. On the other hand, Matt does have excellent form in his defensive stance and movement, so he is ahead of the curve in that phase.

[Newton_14]

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I was hoping some posters more in the know might be able to shed some light on this question. If I'm not mistaken, Matt Jones was billed largely as a "sharpshooter" in recruiting circles when he was in high school. From everything I read, he worked hard to improve his driving and defensive abilities later in his H.S. career, but shooting was supposedly his calling card. Is that right?

Based on what I've seen so far, I can't see how that could possibly be the case. Don't get me wrong, this is not meant to be an "attack on Matt" thread. He's earned some significant minutes already based solely (as far as I can tell) on his defense, which is rare for a freshman in K's system. But I see nothing to indicate that he is a good shooter. He has a very unorthodox shot, and the results have not been pretty. While a number of posters have harped on Tyler's lack of offensive production, at least he does bring to the table a skill this team needs: the ability to knock down the occasional open 3-pointer. I really haven't seen anything to suggest that Jones is a better fit for the rotation in this regard than Tyler; he seems like even more of an offensive liability out there. That could easily change, and perhaps Jones' size and defensive prowess will continue to earn him heavy minutes, but I don't see Jones as a solution to the perceived problem that Hairston + Thornton means 3 on 5 basketball on offense.

I pose two questions: (1) Is this an example of the recruiting services being way off on a guys' kills, or was I off-base in my assumptions about what kind of player he would be? (2) For those who advocate for more PT for Jones, what is it on the offensive side of the ball, if anything, that you are seeing that I am missing?

I have not researched it, but I do believe he was billed as being a guy with a great shooting stroke. That part was proved to be false in that very first open practice. Like you indicated Matt has a very unorthodox shooting motion. Rarely does he get the proper rotation on the ball, and he has this little, flat/push/hitch combination with his stroke. However, he has knocked down back to back 3 balls at key times in a couple of games this year. You can be an effective shooter without having that pure "JJ Redick/Andre Dawkins" form with great rotation, but you won't often get the kind bounces if the shot is a tad short or tad long, due to the poor rotation. It will be interesting to watch his 3point shooting percentages over the course of his career.

I do like Matt as a player though. Very competitive, good penetrator with seemingly good results at either finishing or drawing the foul, and tough. I think he will be a very good defender before all is said and done too. He already is a good one on one defender. If he can combine that with being a good team defender in K's system, he can be a very good defender over his career, possibly elite.

[pfrduke]

Not that this speaks conclusively to his shooting ability, but I'm virtually certain that Jones was a contestant in the 3-point shooting contest at this year's McDonald's All American Game. Can't find a link to confirm, but pretty confident that's the case.

ETA: Sure enough, my memory was correct. Per his GoDuke bio, he finished second.

[JPtheGame]

From Draftexpress.com:

Strengths:
-6-5 in shoes with a 6-7 wingspan
-Has a very solid frame
-Extremely efficient offensive player
-Pure shooter with deep range and a quick release
-Shot nearly 50% for 3 in 20 games at the EYBL
-Can make shots with feet set or off the dribble
-Rarely turns the ball over
-Not one-dimensional. Finds ways to score inside the arc
-Team player and willing passer
-Can drive and dish a bit

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2n24L0FGT
http://www.draftexpress.com

[dukelifer]

I have not researched it, but I do believe he was billed as being a guy with a great shooting stroke. That part was proved to be false in that very first open practice. Like you indicated Matt has a very unorthodox shooting motion. Rarely does he get the proper rotation on the ball, and he has this little, flat/push/hitch combination with his stroke. However, he has knocked down back to back 3 balls at key times in a couple of games this year. You can be an effective shooter without having that pure "JJ Redick/Andre Dawkins" form with great rotation, but you won't often get the kind bounces if the shot is a tad short or tad long, due to the poor rotation. It will be interesting to watch his 3point shooting percentages over the course of his career.

I do like Matt as a player though. Very competitive, good penetrator with seemingly good results at either finishing or drawing the foul, and tough. I think he will be a very good defender before all is said and done too. He already is a good one on one defender. If he can combine that with being a good team defender in K's system, he can be a very good defender over his career, possibly elite.

We have seen glimpses but the speed of the game may be making him rush. He has a funny stroke but then so did Reggie Miller. Matt can play and should get better with time.

[Troublemaker]

I'm with others in thinking it's just a matter of time before Matt starts scorching the nets. And I mean this season, and within the next few games. At this point, I still completely trust his high school reputation over early season results. I think he's going to have a breakout game soon knocking down three or four, and from then on, he'll be a good shooter the rest of the season.

[NYBri]

In K world, you earn minutes through defense. The shot will come, but right now he will be on the floor for his d than his 3 shot.

[FerryFor50]

Lots of great 3pt shooters have had weird shot form.

Look up video of Matt Bonner, Sam Perkins, Reggie Miller... Heck, even Dell Curry's form is a little weird.

[Potato Head]

It's certainly unorthodox, but the arc and rotation are both good and the quickness of release is also good. From what I've seen, the only possible negative is that it's more of a set shot than a jump shot, he gets very little elevation when he shoots. Might be more susceptible than others of getting blocked. I'm not really sure we should be getting caught up in statistics at this point in the season, especially for someone who has played so little.

[fidel]

After reading the sparks thread in off-topic, I have to say I don't find Matts ability offensive at all.

[roywhite]

It's certainly unorthodox, but the arc and rotation are both good and the quickness of release is also good. From what I've seen, the only possible negative is that it's more of a set shot than a jump shot, he gets very little elevation when he shoots. Might be more susceptible than others of getting blocked. I'm not really sure we should be getting caught up in statistics at this point in the season, especially for someone who has played so little.

Reminds me a bit of Curtis Staples, the UVa sharpshooter who had the 3-point record before JJ Redick broke it. Low release point, but he got it off quickly and was deadly.

A little tidbit about Staples from his wiki profile:

... best known for holding the all-time NCAA record for career three-point field goals, at 413. His record stood for nearly eight years after his career ended until J. J. Redick of Duke University broke it on February 14, 2006. Staples had actually conducted a basketball clinic in Virginia which Redick attended as a pre-teen; Redick's rare shooting ability caught Staples's eye even then.[citation needed] Redick told The Roanoke Times, "I was a big Curtis Staples fan."....Staples broke the three point shooting record of Radford University's Doug Day, a native of Blacksburg, Virginia. So, the past three record holders are all natives of a small area of Southwest Virginia.

[Dukehky]

Scheyer had a pretty awkward shot as well. Had sidespin on it nearly every time. I don't see him being able to come off screens and hit the 3 on a curl, but I'm confident that his spot up shooting numbers will increase as his minutes and experience increase. Spot up shooting is all we really need with the driving ability of Parker, Hood, and Cook. If we need a 3 off a curl or screen, Dre's taking that shot this year anyway. Wuddup Michigan? Still trying to recover from the Dre Bomb (say it like A-bomb, maybe that can catch on).

I am pleasantly surprised at the way he can attack the basket as well. Didn't think that was in his arsenal. I actually think I'm less concerned with parts of Matt's game than I am with a large number of the rest of our players. Don't really know why, just love the way Matt plays. Gonna be special for us in the years to come. He just has that aura about it him for me.

[CDu]

Jones has taken a whopping 10 3-pt shots all season. I think it's a little early to determine whether or not he's a sharpshooter. For perspective, it would take just 2 made (instead of missed) 3s for him to have a 40% 3pt%. Whenever just 2 shots can be the difference between abysmal shooting and very good shooting, you know you don't have a meaningful sample size.

And as has been mentioned by others, "good form" is a misnomer. Almost any type of form can produce good results. All that matters is whether you can repeat a shooting motion that produces buckets. Reggie Miller's and Peja Stojakovic's shots didn't LOOK pretty, but they were able to hit shots at a high rate. It remains to be seen whether Jones' weird form can produce good results.

[GGLC]

Matt can drive and put the ball on the floor, and that's the aspect of his offensive game I've been most impressed with so far.

I'm a big fan of his.

[Cameron]

As others have already pointed out, not only was Matt Jones considered an elite level three-point shooter coming out of high school but he was also labeled by some analysts as the best shooter in his class, even eliciting comparisons to some of Duke's all-time great long-range scorers based on the sheer range and accuracy of his outside shot.

From a Fayetteville Observer article in 2011:

"While they were recruiting him, Duke threw around the words J.J. Redick," ESPN.com senior basketball recruiting analyst Dave Telep said. "That's obviously hallowed ground in Durham and a lot to live up to, but I think the basic point is that Matt Jones was brought in because he can absolutely smoke it from deep."

While Matt may not be J.J. Redick or even Greg Paulus, who was an outstanding shooter from deep in his own right, Jones had a prolific reputation as a three-point shooter in high school and it would be silly to neglect or refute that background based on what amounts to a handful of games in the career of a basketball player up until this point. Matt has been playing competitively at Duke for less than two months. As his playing time continues to increase and his role expands, so will the efficiency of his shooting. History is usually a reliable indicator of these sort of things.

As for the "funny" way Matt shoots, sometimes the act of shooting is just shooting. Not everything requires an exact science to achieve positive results. I'm much more concerned with a player's demonstrated ability to consistently make shots (which, unless he pulled one of the great hoodwinks of all-time by fooling both Mike Krzyzewski and professional recruiting services, Matt proved in high school) than I am with the prettiness of his form. If a player's shooting form needs adjusted in any significant way, then the results will support that. Based on what we know of Matt's record as a celebrated schoolboy shooter, and on the extremely limited sample size he's provided us so far this season (only shooting more than 2 threes in a game once) there just isn't any firm evidence yet suggesting that something must be done to alter the mechanics of his shot. Sure, he's 2-for-10 shooting from beyond the arc on the season. But the act of taking and missing one three-point shot in four or five different games leads to no indication of anything other than a young player who is still learning and figuring out his role in a very talented and high-level offense. In the one game this season that Matt has shot more than 2 threes, he went 2-for-3.

Princeton legend Pete Carril on the "science" of shooting:

In teaching shooting, you have to recognize the little differences that exist among players, and not force each player to shoot the same way. What works for one guy might not work for another. You don't want to keep someone from doing something he's good at just because it looks funny, or it violates some principle you think makes up good shooting. If he makes his shots, I don't care how ugly the shot is, I don't mess with him.

As guys like Michael Adams and Reggie Miller have shown us, great shooting and perfect form are not inherently linked.

[kAzE]

When a player's prime directive is to play high energy defense, it can have an adverse effect on his shooting numbers. I think this is especially true for freshman, who aren't as adjusted to the college game. Playing defense takes a toll on your legs, and long range shooting is 90% about your legs. (Don't argue with me, it's true)

Anyway, just looking at his form, I'd have to say that he is probably a better catch-and-shoot guy than a shoot off the dribble guy. He doesn't get very high off the ground, and he almost doesn't incorporate his elbow into the release at all. It's all wrist, which is actually a good thing, but it would nice if he used his legs a bit more and got a bit more elevation on that thing. It seems like it would be really awkward to shoot it like that if you are off balance.

[tommy]

If a player's shooting form needs adjusted in any significant way, then the results will support that. Based on what we know of Matt's record as a celebrated schoolboy shooter, and on the extremely limited sample size he's provided us so far this season (only shooting more than 2 threes in a game once) there just isn't any firm evidence yet suggesting that something must be done to alter the mechanics of his shot.

I'm not worried about Matt's shot at all. With experience, and the slowing down of the game that experience brings, his shot will be fine. Moreover, even if a kid does not have good form, I don't remember a case in which K or the staff changed his mechanics in any significant way. I mean, if they weren't going to break down and rebuild DeMarcus Nelson's shot, then I don't see them touching Matt Jones's.

[Cameron]

I'm not worried about Matt's shot at all. With experience, and the slowing down of the game that experience brings, his shot will be fine. Moreover, even if a kid does not have good form, I don't remember a case in which K or the staff changed his mechanics in any significant way. I mean, if they weren't going to break down and rebuild DeMarcus Nelson's shot, then I don't see them touching Matt Jones's.

While there are certainly cases where a player (read: bad shooter) can gain improvement from altering the mechanics of their shot to some degree or another, I agree with you that Matt Jones is not and will not be one of them. There has been so much talk here, though, about the unorthodox angle and apparent hitch to his release, that one might assume Matt Jones needs to rent a Dick Baumgartner video.

As you allude to, with more experience comes more confidence, and once he fully adapts to the speed of the college game and his play starts naturally coming to him, the sky is the limit for Matt. He has all the tools to be an elite guard at Duke.