ACCCG: Florida St 45, Duke 7 -- Post-Game Thread

[CDu]

It was a borderline call. Norman hit the receiver in his midsection, but the refs ruled Norman led with the crown of his helmet. I will not go as far as calling it a bad call, but it was certainly a call that didn't need to be made.

It wasn't a borderline call. Norman led with the crown of the helmet. Easy call. It stinks for Norman, but that is the rule. The NCAA wants to crack down on that sort of play, so they have intentionally made the penalty harsh.

[4Gen]

I took away from this game that Duke football will flat hit you. Good to see.

[duke74]

Sorry, but one more:

8. That interview with Winston at the end was pretty uncool. The kid is on his way to the National Championship, and probably Heisman, and the reporter asks 4 out of 5 questions focusing on an investigation to which he has been acquitted. THAT IS JUST BAD JOURNALISM. Have just a little respect....

Not a lawyer, but not indicted does NOT mean "acquitted"...just not enough to bring to trial.

[CDu]

Not a lawyer, but not indicted does NOT mean "acquitted"...just not enough to bring to trial.

The point remains the same though.

[Faison1]

Not a lawyer, but not indicted does NOT mean "acquitted"...just not enough to bring to trial.

I had a few drinks last night, so there is NO WAY I was going to get the difference between the two. Frankly, I was pretty impressed that I came up with "acquitted".

[johnb]

FSU has a great, fast, aggressive defense. Quite impressive.

When they asked Jameis what he learned in the last month, he said that he needed to be mature every minute bc everyone was watching. Sounded like an allusion to guilt or at least a recognition that he needs to avoid sex with someone who is saying no and heavily intoxicated. He wasn't "acquitted," by the way, or exhonerated. They declined to pursue the prosecution because the lack of evidence and poor police procedure meant successful prosecution was unlikely. The repeated questions may have been sensationalist, but they may also hint at what the journalists actually think about whether Jameis did anything illegal. A sordid mess, if you ask me, but I digress.

While I will never like Jameis (or Kobe, for the same reason), I am less upset about FSU. If we don't like running up the score, take a look at some of our women's basketball games. They were trying to do a bit of a late-game stomp down, presumably for voters who were watching the other game, but I didn't see late hits and doubt it was specifically directed at us. But what do I know?

Norman led with the crown of his helmet. Nice hit but the rule is clear. I broke a rib once after tripping on a footrest; after watching the replay, I don't know how the fsu player was able to get off the field.

As for doing the stomp down in reverse in 2 years.... we'll see. we might have risen to their level, but I doubt they'll just quit recruiting 4/5 star players... I'm pleased that we made it close for a half, and also pleased by the fan support.

[buddy]

Several points. Yes, K keeps starters in late in games sometimes, but basketball does have a shot clock, unlike football. In football, you can try to run out the clock. In basketball, you can refuse to try to score, but I have never seen any team do that with more than 35 seconds on the clock.

When you keep your starters in late in a game already decided, you run the risk of injury--not from malice, but from football. I don't know the ins and outs of the crown rule, but it is what it is. Norman tried to separate the player from the ball in the end zone in a game where is team was behind by 38 with 8 minutes to go. And he did. Should he have not made the play because stopping FSU then would not affect the outcome? Should FSU not have tried to score because the game was decided? I for one am glad that we played hard the entire game. I thought our defense did well, but were just on the field too long.

Winston is a terrific quarterback, but he does have a lot of help. Still, I thought he looked shaky at times. FSU just is head and shoulders above us in talent. But now we know what we have to do to get where we want. This as been a delicious season, and I refuse to let a loss to a clearly superior squad affect my appreciation for what the coaching staff and this particular group of young men have accomplished.

We have made giant strides this year. We played for a championship. We held the best team in the country scoreless for 17 1/2 minutes to start the game. Next play!

[YmoBeThere]

Well, we looked good early, but they just have more pros than we do... well, really, more than some pro teams do.

No. While they are a very good team and will put a dozen players into the pros, this bit of hyperbole is merely that. Hyperbole. We shouldn't make them into something they aren't.

They were trying to do a bit of a late-game stomp down, presumably for voters who were watching the other game, but I didn't see late hits and doubt it was specifically directed at us. But what do I know?

Agreed, unless I missed it I didn't see much shenanigans on their side. I think some of the chippiness at the end of the game was actually driven by us but it is easier to see the retaliation than the instigation.

[johnb]

... Norman tried to separate the player from the ball in the end zone in a game where is team was behind by 38 with 8 minutes to go. And he did. Should he have not made the play because stopping FSU then would not affect the outcome?

Spearing seems to lead to concussions in the spearer and injuries in the speared. Norman did prevent/defer a touchdown, but there's a reason it's an automatic expulsion. if an FSU player had done it to, say, Boone and knocked him out of the game, we'd have a whole thread about it.

Impressive bit though

[Bob Green]

...and we got out with no serious injuries.

Perry Simmons (right tackle) injured his knee.

[Wander]

Uh check the highlights of the 82-50 beat down of Carolina. Let's not get too carried away with the lack of class comments. FSU did what they were supposed to do, win. They ran the ball! Mother j McCree oh all de noyve!

Totally agreed, I was going to bring up the same game - if I remember correctly, Duke's final points of that night came from an alley-oop to Miles Plumlee. Which was awesome. Nothing to complain about for me with FSU.

There's not too much reason to be discouraged - FSU is not just the best team in the country, but had one of the most dominant regular seasons in a long time. Our defense was fine, but we needed much better quarterback play to hang with them.

[OldPhiKap]

Totally agreed, I was going to bring up the same game - if I remember correctly, Duke's final points of that night came from an alley-oop to Miles Plumlee. Which was awesome. Nothing to complain about for me with FSU.

There's not too much reason to be discouraged - FSU is not just the best team in the country, but had one of the most dominant regular seasons in a long time. Our defense was fine, but we needed much better quarterback play to hang with them.

Agreed, although as to the last point -- I am not sure how it looked on TV, but FSU's defensive backs are spectacular. There was nothing available over the middle after the first quarter, and they locked down single man on the WRs for most of the game. While Boone did have some errant passes, he had few openings and a drop or two when he got an opening. There is a reason FSU only gives up eleven or so points a game.

I thought our O line did pretty well, that fumble sack late in the third notwithstanding.

[Potato Head]

Surprised but not surprised at the number of media chalking this up more to "Duke coming back to earth/That was a cute little story but Duke was never going to be good enough", rather than just another example of FSU being the cream of the crop this year. Sure we let the game get away from us in the end, but so did everyone else they played. If we took any of our opportunities in the first quarter who knows how that game might have turned out. Was happy with how our defense kept them "in check" in the first half, with no help from our offense.

[johnb]

Agreed, although as to the last point -- I am not sure how it looked on TV, but FSU's defensive backs are spectacular...

The tv guys pointed out the quality of their corners and did recurrently show the tight coverage and mentioned that we had perhaps one WR (Crowder) who was fast like their corners are fast, but it would be difficult to really get across Boone's experience of never really seeing any of his wide outs with space. A couple of times, he "overthrew an open guy," but when they showed the replay it seems to me it was a theoretical opening in that there was a guy in front and in back and so the ball could potentially have been dropped from a bird or a plane or thrown by a superman, but we're short of all three.

And, of course, it's not like the rest of their D is chopped liver. Unless your team also happens to have next-level athletes, misdirection and slants can only get you so far.

Having said that, if we'd gotten a few more breaks (the FG, no dropped passes--including by our own QB, no Duke turnovers), it coulda been closer, but it's still hard to imagine Us having one of our great 4th quarters against FSU.

[OldPhiKap]

The tv guys pointed out the quality of their corners and did recurrently show the tight coverage and mentioned that we had perhaps one WR (Crowder) who was fast like their corners are fast, but it would be difficult to really get across Boone's experience of never really seeing any of his wide outs with space. A couple of times, he "overthrew an open guy," but when they showed the replay it seems to me it was a theoretical opening in that there was a guy in front and in back and so the ball could potentially have been dropped from a bird or a plane or thrown by a superman, but we're short of all three.

And, of course, it's not like the rest of their D is chopped liver. Unless your team also happens to have next-level athletes, misdirection and slants can only get you so far.

Having said that, if we'd gotten a few more breaks (the FG, no dropped passes--including by our own QB, no Duke turnovers), it coulda been closer, but it's still hard to imagine Us having one of our great 4th quarters against FSU.

Wish I could give Sporkz but need to spread the love. Agree on all points.

The game might have been different if we don't drop the wheel pass in the first quarter, and go for it and convert on fourth and four in the second quarter. Still, that is a long way from saying that the result would have been different. I hope we take lessons from this and go in to the Bowl with our heads up and focused -- we still have a lot to play for, and a tough opponent in our way.

[roywhite]

Well, we looked good early, but they just have more pros than we do... well, really, more than some pro teams do.

There's not too much reason to be discouraged - FSU is not just the best team in the country, but had one of the most dominant regular seasons in a long time. Our defense was fine, but we needed much better quarterback play to hang with them.

Yeah, the perspective for me is just how good FSU is. Seems to me they could be the best team ever from FSU, the best team ever from the ACC, and one of the better college teams in a long time. While they don't really compare to an NFL team, they have a ton of guys who will likely play in the NFL. I suppose we need to see how FSU will do against Auburn, but they really do seem to be an extraordinary college team.

Can Duke approach that level? Don't really think so, but Duke can continue to get better. Great job by Coach Cut and the team.

[FerryFor50]

And, of course, it's not like the rest of their D is chopped liver. Unless your team also happens to have next-level athletes, misdirection and slants can only get you so far.

While the rest of their defense is good, FSU doesn't have any elite pass rushers like from previous years. Guys like Lawrence Timmons, Kameiron Wimbley, Peter Boulware, Derrick Brooks, etc.

Most of FSU's pressure comes from coverage because of their elite secondary.

Will be an interesting matchup with Auburn, since FSU's defensive strength is pass defense, but Auburn is a run heavy (and very effectively) team.

[FerryFor50]

Yeah, the perspective for me is just how good FSU is. Seems to me they could be the best team ever from FSU, the best team ever from the ACC, and one of the better college teams in a long time. While they don't really compare to an NFL team, they have a ton of guys who will likely play in the NFL. I suppose we need to see how FSU will do against Auburn, but they really do seem to be an extraordinary college team.

Can Duke approach that level? Don't really think so, but Duke can continue to get better. Great job by Coach Cut and the team.

I don't think they are the best FSU team ever... The Charlie Ward years were probably better.

[loran16]

Perry Simmons (right tackle) injured his knee.

Cut called it a significant injury in post-game...could miss the bowl and he would be a HUGE loss.

[AZLA]

Couple of things stuck out that I thought showed a lack of class:

1) FSU running the ball at the end of the game instead of the victory formation.

2) Throwing the ball down the field 30 yards up 38-0 with 8 minutes left instead of running the ball to run the clock out.

To equate it to basketball, it would be like Duke repeatedly setting up alley oops in the last 4 minutes up 27 and then trying to score with 10 seconds left with the ball up 30.

I can't remember Duke ever doing that under Coach K.

Oh c'mon. It's a competition. Duke has big boys on their team. They can handle it. Only thing worse than getting drubbed, is complaining about how much another team "ran up" a score, when what they were doing was playing football. Sometimes it feels more classless to complain about how a team competes, which FSU was competing fairly, than whether or not a team puts up a higher score. It's not like Duke didn't continue to compete to put up 7 points and get that donut off the scoreboard. And the basketball analogy doesn't jive. This was the ACC CHAMPIONSHIP between two Top 20 teams. Not Duke versus South East Podunk State at home. Being that college football is based on pageantry and voters -- fans should come to expect that teams compete hard for all 4 quarters.

Shake hands and move on.