MBB: Arizona 72, Duke 66 Post-Game Thread

[JohnGalt]

Can't recall a worse coached game by K. Playing Thorton And Hairston over Dawkins and Jefferson killed the offense.

Dawkins only played a few minutes the entire game. If this is subtle jab at our anemic offense the entire night, I apologize in advance.

[roywhite]

Yes, but so will everyone else. Without size coupled only with good (not great) guard play we aren't going to be world beaters. Top 3 or so in ACC and winning 25 games still a reasonable goal.

Seems way too early in the season to lower our goals and expectations.

There is a lot of talent, but it has to be pieced together; takes time.

[FerryFor50]

FerryFor50(tag)

My chat went haywire so replying here. Agree/Disagree on Tyler. He's good at what he does, but what he does is not winning us ball games. Its nice to have a floor leader on D but he can't create on offense at all. His M.O. is pass and/or hide in the corner. I like him getting 20 minutes a game, just not in place of Rasheed. I'd be fine with Dre getting a few of his minutes as well. Dude just doesn't have the skills. I hate to say it because I really like his game but dayum.

I dunno... I think TT was pretty pivotal in winning the Bama game. You can't have a floor full of stars; you also need role players that don't need the ball to be successful.

[jcastranio]

It really wasn't bad defense, but poor offense that did us in. We shoot 50% in the first half and about 30% in the second. I mean, Arizona took over six minutes in the second half to even hit their first shot. But, when we had a chance to stretch it out - missed free throws and some poor decisions on offense let them back in.

We are guilty of watching Jabari too much. In the second half, Zona just double-teamed him every time he came inside the 3 point line.

It wasn't the reason we lost, but ... why was this game called so loosely? Every game this year has been a foul fest, now, suddenly pushing, shoving, bumping, and arm bars are okay? How come Duke didn't get that inter-office memo? We mainly stayed away from their two guards - not much pressure. They were all over us. Yet, not many fouls called (discounting the end of the game).

Josh and Tyler together just doesn't seem to work - there is not a scoring threat from 40% of our lineup when they are in.

Andre and Matt both had some ill-advised moves in their brief moments - then they sat. We could have used them. I am not sure I understand why they have such a short leash.

Rasheed - the best part of his game is the drive and pull-up for the ten footer. Yet, he insists on either shooting the three or driving all the way to the hoop. It is not working. Use your whole game, buddy. We need it.

Not a bad game. A more experienced team would have won it. March is a long way off.

[Saratoga2]

I thought the defense played very well tonight except for the last 7 or 8 minutes of the game. We were very active on the floor and used some of the same players for almost the entire game. Playing such an aggressive defense has to be tiring for the guys. It may have also impacted the offense, but I think it was more to do with the size and athleticism of the Zona team.

The good news is that Rodney had a very good game and Parker was good but was under a lot of defensive pressure in the second half and I thought Quinn also played well, with the exception of trying to drive into a stacked and big defense near the end of the game.

What went wrong?

1. Certainly our free throw shooting was subpar with key misses late in the game.
2. Our need for more offensive capability from outside was pretty clear, yet we didn't use Andre that much and I didn't see Jones although he may have been in the game.
3.Jefferson was not an answer for the Zona inside game.

All in all it was a very competitive game that Duke might have won. We have to find a way to get our key players a blow by using a little longer bench and like has been said ellsewhere here, we have to learn to drive and dish for three point shooters. Move on and improve. We are probably a top 10 team now, but just barely.

[uh_no]

It wasn't the reason we lost, but ... why was this game called so loosely? Every game this year has been a foul fest, now, suddenly pushing, shoving, bumping, and arm bars are okay? How come Duke didn't get that inter-office memo?

because different refs are slightly different, and the rules are so ambiguously worded that no two people could possibly call the game exactly the same way

[mapei]

I think we have to give some credit to AZ. They came into the game ranked higher than us and proved they deserved it. Very big yet athletic. Great shot-blocking and rebounding. They also made key 3-pt shots. Not that Duke couldn't beat them with a few breaks here and there, but I thought we were pretty clearly the lesser team in the second half, even when we still clung to a lead despite being unable to score. It looked like a matter of time before AZ would catch up and then take the lead, which of course was exactly what happened.

I too fail to understand the minutes for Tyler and Josh. Excellent role players, but not starters on a team aspiring to elite status.

[DukeWarhead]

Top 3 or so in ACC and winning 25 games still a reasonable goal.

Considering the rest of the ACC, I certainly hope so. Only 25 wins would be weak. Frustrated as I am, I still expect Duke to battle Syracuse for the ACC.

[roywhite]

because different refs are slightly different, and the rules are so ambiguously worded that no two people could possibly call the game exactly the same way

Yeah, no doubt, and we certainly can't (or wouldn't want to) eliminate the human element in calling a game.

Still, there was a HUGE disparity in the way today's game was called vs nearly every single game I've seen since the rule and emphasis changes. I thought there was waaay too much contact without a whistle that went on, and I thought Duke generally got the short end of it. Not a well-officiated game IMO.

[BD80]

FerryFor50(tag)

My chat went haywire so replying here. Agree/Disagree on Tyler. He's good at what he does, but what he does is not winning us ball games. Its nice to have a floor leader on D but he can't create on offense at all. His M.O. is pass and/or hide in the corner. I like him getting 20 minutes a game, just not in place of Rasheed. I'd be fine with Dre getting a few of his minutes as well. Dude just doesn't have the skills. I hate to say it because I really like his game but dayum.

I have been working on staying calmer while watching games, and particularly in reducing shouting at the TV (40 years, it has yet to work). Alas, Tyler "drives" the baseline and throws a pass intended for the far corner, which is intercepted (easily) by the other team. Second game in a row. Maybe I'll make it through the next game, but Tyler on offense just gets to me.

[JohnGalt]

I too fail to understand the minutes for Tyler and Josh. Excellent role players, but not starters on a team aspiring to elite status.

Who do you insert for Josh though? At least he brings a degree of physicality under the basket. I seemed to notice Amile get beat both laterally and vertically numerous times tonight. Arizona is a particularly big and athletic team and 1 game is a small sample size, but that was a troubling performance from Jefferson.

Also...what was the point of sending out Marshall for 2 minutes in the first half? And then not seeing him again?

[FerryFor50]

I have been working on staying calmer while watching games, and particularly in reducing shouting at the TV (40 years, it has yet to work). Alas, Tyler "drives" the baseline and throws a pass intended for the far corner, which is intercepted (easily) by the other team. Second game in a row. Maybe I'll make it through the next game, but Tyler on offense just gets to me.

He also had some nice steals, a great pass to Jabari in the post for a dunk, and hit a baseline layup with 6 seconds left in the first half.

I saw MANY more bad plays by Cook than TT tonight... the difference is that TT doesn't try to do things he knows he can't do.

[BD80]

He also had some nice steals, a great pass to Jabari in the post for a dunk, and hit a baseline layup with 6 seconds left in the first half.

I saw MANY more bad plays by Cook than TT tonight... the difference is that TT doesn't try to do things he knows he can't do.

Except drive the baseline and try to pass to far corner. TWO GAMES IN A ROW

[FerryFor50]

Except drive the baseline and try to pass to far corner. TWO GAMES IN A ROW

Well, yea...

[Gthoma2a]

He also had some nice steals, a great pass to Jabari in the post for a dunk, and hit a baseline layup with 6 seconds left in the first half.

I saw MANY more bad plays by Cook than TT tonight... the difference is that TT doesn't try to do things he knows he can't do.

I disagreed. I saw Quinn be one of the few guys who actually got anything off of a drive, he had the most skilled play of the game and he shot 66.7%.

[mgtr]

Much of what we hear is defense, defense. I agree that is important, but I believe the problem is offense. If we had scored 90 points tonight, we would have been fine -- Arizona wouldn't have, in my view. But when we have two or three non-scorers in the game, we limit ourselves. Tyler, Josh and Amile our good at what they do, but that doesn't include much scoring. I am not suggesting that we play like Loyola-Marymount of old, but scoring more points is a good thing.

[DU82]

Hairston played baseline defense, Jefferson did not. Plumlee is not ready. That helped a lot on D. However, the guy guarding Josh doubled Parker every time in the second half. Toouch one on one (or two or three) right now.
One criticism of Duke teams has been we peak too soon. With the young talent on the team this year, I think we'll be much better later. Not all teams improve, especially "old" teams, we'll see what happens. It's still November.
On to Chapel Hill and the evil cheating smurfs.

[uh_no]

Yeah, no doubt, and we certainly can't (or wouldn't want to) eliminate the human element in calling a game.

Still, there was a HUGE disparity in the way today's game was called vs nearly every single game I've seen since the rule and emphasis changes. I thought there was waaay too much contact without a whistle that went on, and I thought Duke generally got the short end of it. Not a well-officiated game IMO.

oh i agree...but it's something we need to adjust to as the game goes on.

[FerryFor50]

I disagreed. I saw Quinn be one of the few guys who actually got anything off of a drive, he had the most skilled play of the game and he shot 66.7%.

He got blocked a few times and only had 3 assists to 2 turnovers. Cook didn't have as many bad plays as last game because he was giving Jabari the ball at the top of the key to run the offense. Plus, Zona didn't press.

Cook played better than he did against Bama, but my point was that I've seen more bad plays from Cook this season than from TT.

That said, I think Cook is definitely a better player and should play more than TT. But I don't get why people discount TT's contributions.

[DaleDuke7]

I like TT and JH, in the right situations. But starting and playing so much is not the right situations IMO. Our offense suffers too much. I think it'd be easier for our offensive players to learn defense than out defensive players to learn offense.

I'd like to see the starting 5: Cook, Hood, Parker, Jefferson, Plumlee.

Yes, I said Plumlee. Maybe he only gets 20 mins, but I think it'd be a confidence booster for him. He's the missing piece inside. Go with that lineup. Make sure to get Sheed his 25-30 mins. And just teach them to play defense. Drill, drill, drill. Offense is still intact with that lineup. I actually really like Amile. One thing I don't understand about K sometimes, a player (like Amile and even Marahall) will play well and hold their own, and then he'll take them out for an extended period of time... I don't know, just makes no sense to me. But then again, I've won 0 championships. I just hope they figure this thing out. We're way too talented to be playing this poorly. Not used to 2 losses in November.