MBB: Arizona 72, Duke 66 Post-Game Thread

[pamtar]

FerryFor50(tag)

My chat went haywire so replying here. Agree/Disagree on Tyler. He's good at what he does, but what he does is not winning us ball games. Its nice to have a floor leader on D but he can't create on offense at all. His M.O. is pass and/or hide in the corner. I like him getting 20 minutes a game, just not in place of Rasheed. I'd be fine with Dre getting a few of his minutes as well. Dude just doesn't have the skills. I hate to say it because I really like his game but dayum.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Just gonna say it once to get it off my chest. Zone was stupid, stupid, stupid. Gave up easiest baskets of the night AND let them take extra time off the clock with no pressure. Learn to defend the high screen... b/c zoning up ain't the answer. Man!

[Bluedog]

It seems like we're doing a lot of 1:1 isolation with Hood, Parker, and occasionally Sulaimon. The other guys clear out and watch them drive to the basket to hopefully score. Arizona did a pretty decent job helping and thus a lot of the drives were into traffic, resulting in really tough shots. Jabari and Hood are good enough that sometimes they still get it to go down, but it seems like we're making things more difficult than they need to be.

I really like when Cook initiates the offense from the top of the perimeter and we get some movement by everybody, including the possibility of an assist. I realize TT and Hairston bring toughness and leadership to the lineup, but when they're on offense, it's really 3 on 5 as the opponent doesn't have to stay close to either of those guys (although I realize TT has hit some key 3's). I really think Sulaimon is going to pick it up, but there were several drives where he just went into so much traffic and forced it up - reminded me of DeMarcus (who I thought was an incredible player for us, but sometimes had a tendency to take very difficult shots). It's hard to pass out of that situation once you commit, but you have to see what the defense is giving you.

I certainly don't think we are a terrible team or that the season is over; not a doomsday scenario to lose to two top 5 teams even if it's early in the season. We have a lot of potential. I liked going to zone for one play just to confuse them, but more than that probably isn't going to be our strength - just need to switch better on D and not give easy layups. And, on offense, I think we're seeing reliance on two guys and everybody else kinda staring in awe. I think Cook actually played a really nice game - would like to see the ball in his hand MORE and either feed Jabari on the block or initiate some motion on the offense. Would be nice to see Dawk/Sulaimon contribute with some 3s and have Hood/Parker continue their aggressive play to drive to the hoop, but if a team is packing it in and they're driving into traffic, have an easy outlet for a shooter for 3. Need some more diversity in our offensive arsenal as it seems like we're reliant on the same two plays. And when Parker's shots aren't falling, we're in trouble (and he took some very difficult shots tonight).

I'm disappointed that we lost, but there are certainly positives to take from that game.

[Ky-Dukie]

I don't understand why we have two point guards in at the same time, for extended minutes. We will not beat many good teams with Thorton and Hairston getting this many minutes. Just my opinion. Agree or disagree, it's ok.

[NYBri]

Next game.

Michigan @ CIS.

[gocanes0506]

The Offense underperformed tonight. Watching the game it wasn't the length of Arizona that caused it. It was a lack of movement and help on the offensive side. It was way too much 1 on 1 O. Zona would do a great job of help D once the ball went low. No one was there to make an outlet pass to get out of the trap, i.e. no movement on O.

I don't know what it is but teams do a much better job at slowing the ball down on screens that Duke does. Zona looked like they got around screens and looked to get the free curler quicker than Duke did. Im not sure if K has them look more for an open shot on the perimeter when a screen happens and that is why the pass to the curler doesn't happen.

So far this team is underwhelming in big games. I will take losses early over any loss in the Tourney but, the team has some issues putting it all together in a big game.

[KandG]

A lot like the Kansas game. Use your best player to get the other team's key guys in foul trouble, nurse a small lead (and blow opportunities to build a bigger lead) in the first half, get overwhelmed by a better team in the second half once they get their key guys back in. Defense continues to improve, but it leaked at the worst time during Arizona's big game-clinching run.

Jabari still seems to struggle with conditioning late in games…maybe he's being asked to do too much. But the coaching staff is going to have to work on diversifying the offense and maybe expanding the rotation a bit. Way too much one-on-one (either iso-Jabari or iso-Hood or iso-Cook or worst of all, iso-Sheed) and too little ball movement in the second half.

First time in quite a while I can remember K with this much talent, and so much work to do to get the level of the team up where it can be an elite team. When was the last time…2000? (Jason Williams' freshman year) I think he'll get there, but it's going to be a process with a lot of ups and downs in the short term. I wouldn't be surprised to see another loss on Tuesday.

[crf30]

Jabari had an rough shooting night, and seemed a bit careless turning it over sometimes.

Sulaimon couldn't seem to decide if he wanted to be a scoring threat or not.

Amile missed all 3 of his free throws, including one that should have had a second one following it so I'd say he was 0-4.

A couple times they entered the ball to the post to Tarczewski, and we got called for a foul before he even caught the ball. Yet a couple of Jabari's inside baskets the defense was played the exact same way, with no foul call.

Those were the biggest things that stood out to me. Any one of them being different in our favor would have made it a totally different game down the stretch in my opinion.

(This is my first post actually discussing basketball on this board, so yay me.)

[Edouble]

The officiating was horrendous. Our players got hammered every time they drove the lane, no calls. Jabari Parker needs to call the cops because he got raped every single time he touched the ball. They fouled the crap out of him every time down the court. Defensively I didn't think we were bad except for a 7 minute stretch where the game got away, and we were really bad then (hey improvement right!).

This word should really be bleeped out, as curse words are on this forum. Honestly, I can't think of anything less appropriate.

[dukelifer]

This word should really be bleeped out, as curse words are on this forum. Honestly, I can't think of anything less appropriate.

I tend to agree. Many other words can be found

[Furniture]

Firstly, our shooting was terrible the entire game. We couldn't hit anything. Which leads to the question, why didn't Dre get any run at all. Also, I thought Marshall played well in his limited minutes, but we keep the rotation with Amile and Josh? If we're not going to have a scoring threat at the 5, lets have somebody who can at least be tall.

The officiating was horrendous. Our players got hammered every time they drove the lane, no calls. Jabari Parker needs to call the cops because he got raped every single time he touched the ball. They fouled the crap out of him every time down the court. Defensively I didn't think we were bad except for a 7 minute stretch where the game got away, and we were really bad then (hey improvement right!).

Rasheed... man, I'm all for letting a kid play through his slump, but after his first three he did nothing good except get burned on rotations and make bad drives the hoop. Matt played well in the last game, why did he get 2 minutes? All of that talk about K going deep this year is BS, he just said that to make people like us shut up. He's going to do his same 7 man rotation only this time, we have 3 people who can score the ball right now.

Not a good start to the season. McGary very well could have 25/15 if we don't change something up.

I'm furious.

I want to start to start Parker, Hood, Jones, Semi, and Marshall in the next game, just see what the hell happens. We can't play Thornton and Hairston against other teams starting fives. That puts us at 3 on 5 on offense which leads to Parker getting triple teamed like he did tonight. I just do not understand K sometimes. Something tells me I'm just not meant to.

I don't understand him either. He has put his faith in Hairston ad TT at the expense of ruining the confidence of much better players. That's my feeling. It's a hole he will have to dig himself out of. We have gone from being an amazing scoring team to a fairly good defense team that don't score as well.if you don't score you don't win...

[richardjackson199]

The refs had nothing to do with it. Duke lost the game and deserved to lose. I thought Thornton and Hairston played about as well as they could. But Duke is not going to be a top tier team this year when 2 of our starters can't score. It's 3 against 5 on the offensive end. That is why we put virtually no points on the board in the 2nd half. Our offense looked like 1 against 5 because everybody on the floor knows 2 of our players can't score. Their defense focused on Jabari, with TT or Hairston's man free to double Jabari when he touched the ball. We worked on defense, now we need to work on offense. Offense was awful this game. 1 on 5 all game. We should watch some tape of Drury or Vermont to see how to run an offense. Clearly I am much more disappointed after this loss than after Kansas. I think we need to be playing Matt Jones, Andre Dawkins, and maybe even trying to develop Semi. Hairston and TT are great captains, but we are going to lose many games this year if they get captains minutes. We cannot win a championship with them IMO. We need to find 5 guys who can run an offense Together, play defense together, and rebound. TT and Hairston are not the answer because they cannot put the ball in the basket. Hopefully we can learn from this loss, or this game will look similar to our NCAA tournament exit this season. Go Duke beat the Heels tomorrow!

[BigZ]

Can't recall a worse coached game by K. Playing Thorton And Hairston over Dawkins and Jefferson killed the offense.

[FerryFor50]

I'm not sure what's up with Amile's FT shooting. He's not a great FT shooter, but he shot 61% last season. Now he's shooting 38%. I'd definitely take 61%.

[Les Grossman]

tough to beat the good teams that way

[arnie]

This word should really be bleeped out, as curse words are on this forum. Honestly, I can't think of anything less appropriate.

When did this board begin mimicking PackPride? Refs didn't lose the game for us - Arizona, the better team, won easily down the stretch.

[jipops]

The play of Amile and Rasheed has been disappointing. I never expected Amile to score much for us but he's not getting much dirty work done. Rasheed is having a very difficult time adjusting from last season's offense to this one. For a team that supposedly is loaded with talent, the options appear limited at this point. Combine that with a team that has little familiarity with each other and there will be some tough times.

Still we gave a top 5 team a tight one. And it's November.

[dukelifer]

I don't understand him either. He has put his faith in Hairston ad TT at the expense of ruining the confidence of much better players. That's my feeling. It's a hole he will have to dig himself out of. We have gone from being an amazing scoring team to a fairly good defense team that don't score as well.if you don't score you don't win...

The D needs to be better. Lesson learned. The O needs work. Driving and dishing will help but that is not happening. Not sure he is ruining confidence. Those guys have played a lot this season. Duke is just not at the level of Kansas and Zona right now. That is true for almost all teams in college ball.

[roywhite]

I'm not sure what's up with Amile's FT shooting. He's not a great FT shooter, but he shot 61% last season. Now he's shooting 38%. I'd definitely take 61%.

Yeah, and some of the misses aren't pretty, for sure.

It's important for him to shoot fouls reasonably well, as he does get to the line; if he continues to shoot FTs so poorly, it's questionable as to his role.

[Gthoma2a]

I don't get using the other team's ranking as a reason to justify the loss. I think a more realistic outlook is looking at it through the lens of games that we've under-performed. We've had a few. It doesn't make our opponents locks for the Final Four. If so, Vermont is a step off of the Elite 8. This also pretends that we weren't expected to be right there with these teams going into the season and the game. There is no good loss.