MBB: Duke 74, Alabama 64 Postgame Thread

[jipops]

That may be true if you base your observation on last night's game alone. For the season, however, Quinn ranks 15th in the nation (and 1st in the ACC by a large margin) in assists per game.

Yea kind of a knee jerk reaction on Quinn. This after playing such solid D which we have so desperately needed.

[dyedwab]

He always looks better at the end of the game stat sheet than I think he does during the game, and I'll trust that my impressionistic view of Quinn is wrong, and the data is correct. Plus, his defense was unquantifiable statistically, except as the absence of production from Releford- which was outstanding.

That said - the two issues with Quinn are dealing with the press at the end of the game, and his decision whether to pass or shoot. On the first, that's on the whole team, and we need to get better, but I would hope that a junior point guard would be better at it. On the second, it seems that Quinn decides whether he passing or shooting very early in his move/sets and doesn't leave himself the option to do one early enough when doing the other. This especially true when he's decided to drive/shoot. Nolan, even at his best, had that issue sometimes also.

So, Quinn's playing really well, and better than I thought, but there are a couple of key places where we need some improvement from him.

[kAzE]

Quinn on the one hand, played really well in the halfcourt offense in terms of scoring, knocking down 3's, and when driving under control, finishing well. However, he only had two assists, and his decision making was really bad at times, including a couple of key moments where we need to extend the lead to remain comfortable. He also made several bad decisions against the press, and attacking the basket in the halfcourt. He just has to improve there for this team to reach full potential. We need him driving becasue he is really good at it when under control, but he has to eliminate the wild, out of control, 1 on 3, throwing up a prayer that has no chance in hell of going in. That is so frustrating to watch. If he can fix that, it will greatly help this team.

I think Quinn falls into the Bill Simmons "10% theory," which is his way of defending guys like Russell Westbrook. You like 90% of what they bring to your team, but 10% of the time, they will make a terrible decision that will make wonder what the hell he was thinking. In Cook's case, this may be more like the 15% theory, but for the most part, you'll take it, because he's a good enough threat on offense, plays pretty good D, and makes enough plays for his teammates that you're willing to accept the 15% of the time he decides to throw up a 23 footer with 31 seconds left on the shot clock and nobody else has touched the ball, or recklessly drives in to the lane and throws up a prayer with 3 guys crowding him. Does that make sense?

Hey, at least we're gonna have Tyus Jones next year!

[duke96]

I think Quinn falls into the Bill Simmons "10% theory," which is his way of defending guys like Russell Westbrook. You like 90% of what they bring to your team, but 10% of the time, they will make a terrible decision that will make wonder what the hell he was thinking. In Cook's case, this may be more like the 15% theory, but for the most part, you'll take it, because he's a good enough threat on offense, plays pretty good D, and makes enough plays for his teammates that you're willing to accept the 15% of the time he decides to throw up a 23 footer with 31 seconds left on the shot clock and nobody else has touched the ball, or recklessly drives in to the lane and throws up a prayer with 3 guys crowding him. Does that make sense?

Yes, completely.

[Newton_14]

I think Quinn falls into the Bill Simmons "10% theory," which is his way of defending guys like Russell Westbrook. You like 90% of what they bring to your team, but 10% of the time, they will make a terrible decision that will make wonder what the hell he was thinking. In Cook's case, this may be more like the 15% theory, but for the most part, you'll take it, because he's a good enough threat on offense, plays pretty good D, and makes enough plays for his teammates that you're willing to accept the 15% of the time he decides to throw up a 23 footer with 31 seconds left on the shot clock and nobody else has touched the ball, or recklessly drives in to the lane and throws up a prayer with 3 guys crowding him. Does that make sense?

Hey, at least we're gonna have Tyus Jones next year!

Yep. Perfect sense. As an example, in the Bama game, his good/great plays far out numbered his bad/terrible plays. It's just that most of his bad plays came at a time where it was magnified due to time/score/situation. To be clear, I am not trying to throw him under the bus or ask for him to be benched. I love it when he drives under control and scores. It gives us a great boost especially without a back to the basket scorer like Mason on the squad. He has star potential and the ability to dominate a game when he is at his best. On the press, rather than retreating like he did the other night, he needs to channel his Ty Lawson type abilities and use his speed and superb ballhandling skills to rush the ball up the court before the press can even get set, and attack the press to score by finding open teammates after breaking the press. He has that rare ability I believe to break a press by himself if he identifies the open lanes and blazes through them.

Quinn is knocking on the door of being where he needs to be as an All-ACC guard. Like u indicated, it is about finding a way to eliminate that 10 to 15% error rate. No kid will play a perfect game. Quinn just needs to lower that error percentage down to say 5%.

[FerryFor50]

On the press, rather than retreating like he did the other night, he needs to channel his Ty Lawson type abilities and use his speed and superb ballhandling skills to rush the ball up the court before the press can even get set, and attack the press to score by finding open teammates after breaking the press. He has that rare ability I believe to break a press by himself if he identifies the open lanes and blazes through them.

Quinn is knocking on the door of being where he needs to be as an All-ACC guard. Like u indicated, it is about finding a way to eliminate that 10 to 15% error rate. No kid will play a perfect game. Quinn just needs to lower that error percentage down to say 5%.

Quinn definitely has the ability - he showed that last season during the early season tournaments.

Quinn's issues aren't physical - it's all decision making.

[Kedsy]

On the press, rather than retreating like he did the other night, he needs to channel his Ty Lawson type abilities and use his speed and superb ballhandling skills to rush the ball up the court before the press can even get set, and attack the press to score by finding open teammates after breaking the press. He has that rare ability I believe to break a press by himself if he identifies the open lanes and blazes through them.

I'm going to disagree a little bit here. I believe Quinn's problems against Alabama's press arose because he tried to break the press by himself.

[azzefkram]

I guess Quinn will be this year's Mason. It astounds me how people will nitpick to death the second most important player on the team while bending over backward to laud some of the exceptionally mediocre players. Does anyone think it's an accident that Quinn is leading the team in minutes played? Seven games into the season and he's played about a half more than Rodney and almost a full game more than Jabari. Can he make some ill-advised drives to the hoop? You betcha, but at no greater rate than Jabari, Rodney, Sheed or Matt. If anything, I'd say Jabari and Rodney are more guilty of this than Quinn (Both have higher turnover rates than Quinn). It's just being masked by their outstanding shooting. As for breaking the press, Quinn didn't have a tough time with it... Duke did. It is rare for one player to consistently break a press on his own.

Quinn has his faults but he has become consistently better each year in just about every category. He has far fewer warts than anybody not named Jabari.

[azzefkram]

I guess Quinn will be this year's Mason. It astounds me how people will nitpick to death the second most important player on the team while bending over backward to laud some of the exceptionally mediocre players. Does anyone think it's an accident that Quinn is leading the team in minutes played? Seven games into the season and he's played about a half more than Rodney and almost a full game more than Jabari. Can he make some ill-advised drives to the hoop? You betcha, but at no greater rate than Jabari, Rodney, Sheed or Matt. If anything, I'd say Jabari and Rodney are more guilty of this than Quinn (Both have higher turnover rates than Quinn). It's just being masked by their outstanding shooting. As for breaking the press, Quinn didn't have a tough time with it... Duke did. It is rare for one player to consistently break a press on his own.

Quinn has his faults but he has become consistently better each year in just about every category. He has far fewer warts than anybody not named Jabari.

I couldn't figure out how to edit my post. Exceptionally mediocre is unnecessarily harsh and not a fair or valid characterization of any of our player. More limited is the phrase I should have used.

[Furniture]

I'm not exactly sure if Quinn was entirely to blame for our press issues. Some yes but surely the other players have to want the ball and give him options. Did they?

[uh_no]

I guess Quinn will be this year's Mason. It astounds me how people will nitpick to death the second most important player on the team while bending over backward to laud some of the exceptionally mediocre players. Does anyone think it's an accident that Quinn is leading the team in minutes played? Seven games into the season and he's played about a half more than Rodney and almost a full game more than Jabari. Can he make some ill-advised drives to the hoop? You betcha, but at no greater rate than Jabari, Rodney, Sheed or Matt. If anything, I'd say Jabari and Rodney are more guilty of this than Quinn (Both have higher turnover rates than Quinn). It's just being masked by their outstanding shooting.

Quinn has his faults but he has become consistently better each year in just about every category. He has far fewer warts than anybody not named Jabari.

Being the starting point guard and playing a lot of minutes go hand in hand...not that he's NOT am important part of the team, but I think the minutes played is a weak one in this circumstance. Further, adding up minutes over 7 games is a bit of a mischaracterization....that equates to 3-5 minutes more per game...yes, that's a big difference, but no more than one would expect considering our relative depth at the PG vs forward positions...

As for breaking the press, Quinn didn't have a tough time with it... Duke did. It is rare for one player to consistently break a press on his own.

It's hard for the entire team to have a tough time when quinn would often refuse to pass the ball after dribbling into double and triple teams, trying to do what you claim is impossible: break the press on his own...there isn't much the rest of the team can do other than be open. Is the rest of the team faultless? absolutely not...is the point guard the person holding the most responsibility in breaking the press? most certainly....

the team needs to work on breaking the press, but to pretend that quinn excelled at leading the press break is silly.

further, i'm not sure how a player's 'importantness' to a team shields them from criticism...the closer on a baseball team is hugely important, but that doesn't mean they can't be terrible, and thus open to criticism (sorry, just thinking of the recent situation of the Mets bullpen...not tryiing to insinuate that i think quinn is terrible...as obviously that's not the case...quite the opposite)...further further, when you have a team two years in a row that has trouble breaking the press (anyone else reminisce about the louisville game in the tourney watching the press break last night???), and almost the entire team has changed around the PG...how is pointing out the fact that the PG has not improved in the situation considered nit-picking? If it has the potential to cost us games (and it was certainly a major contributor to the loss in the tournament...) then it's not nit picking

quinn does some things really well, and he has some things he needs to work on...and that is true of everyone that puts on the uniform...I don't care if you're Laettner or jay will...EVERYONE has things to work on...one of the things quinn needs to work on is the press.

[jv001]

Being the starting point guard and playing a lot of minutes go hand in hand...not that he's NOT am important part of the team, but I think the minutes played is a weak one in this circumstance. Further, adding up minutes over 7 games is a bit of a mischaracterization....that equates to 3-5 minutes more per game...yes, that's a big difference, but no more than one would expect considering our relative depth at the PG vs forward positions...



It's hard for the entire team to have a tough time when quinn would often refuse to pass the ball after dribbling into double and triple teams, trying to do what you claim is impossible: break the press on his own...there isn't much the rest of the team can do other than be open. Is the rest of the team faultless? absolutely not...is the point guard the person holding the most responsibility in breaking the press? most certainly....

the team needs to work on breaking the press, but to pretend that quinn excelled at leading the press break is silly.

further, i'm not sure how a player's 'importantness' to a team shields them from criticism...the closer on a baseball team is hugely important, but that doesn't mean they can't be terrible, and thus open to criticism (sorry, just thinking of the recent situation of the Mets bullpen...not tryiing to insinuate that i think quinn is terrible...as obviously that's not the case...quite the opposite)...further further, when you have a team two years in a row that has trouble breaking the press (anyone else reminisce about the louisville game in the tourney watching the press break last night???), and almost the entire team has changed around the PG...how is pointing out the fact that the PG has not improved in the situation considered nit-picking? If it has the potential to cost us games (and it was certainly a major contributor to the loss in the tournament...) then it's not nit picking

quinn does some things really well, and he has some things he needs to work on...and that is true of everyone that puts on the uniform...I don't care if you're Laettner or jay will...EVERYONE has things to work on...one of the things quinn needs to work on is the press.

The way Duke tried to break the press, it looked like we'd never worked on that phase of the game. And we know that's not the case with Coach K. But it sure looked like Quinn tried to do it all by himself. Did the other players get open as they should, probably not. But looking at the replay, it seemed the inbounds passer missed an open man in the middle of the court a few times. It looked like he was not going to pass it to anyone other than Quinn. At least it looked that way to me. I was afraid we were going to get the 5 second call on more than one possession. GoDuke!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Players like Hurley and JWill and Kyrie could break the press alone. Quinn doesn't have quite that degree of control or handle. Thus, there is one sure fire way to break the press AND score... Pass the ball. Usually a bigger guy in the middle near center court who gets the ball, turns opposite, passes again and there is often a 2- or 3-on-1. Yes, other players need to be in the right position. That's really the easy part. A little practice should make a huge difference. I have faith this will be addressed.

[arnie]

Players like Hurley and JWill and Kyrie could break the press alone. Quinn doesn't have quite that degree of control or handle. Thus, there is one sure fire way to break the press AND score... Pass the ball. Usually a bigger guy in the middle near center court who gets the ball, turns opposite, passes again and there is often a 2- or 3-on-1. Yes, other players need to be in the right position. That's really the easy part. A little practice should make a huge difference. I have faith this will be addressed.

Very well stated. Quinn needs help ( similar to most point guards) and can get it from Parker, Hood and other guards. We just need to make pressing teams "pay" when the press is broken.

[tux]

The way Duke tried to break the press, it looked like we'd never worked on that phase of the game. And we know that's not the case with Coach K. But it sure looked like Quinn tried to do it all by himself. Did the other players get open as they should, probably not. But looking at the replay, it seemed the inbounds passer missed an open man in the middle of the court a few times. It looked like he was not going to pass it to anyone other than Quinn. At least it looked that way to me. I was afraid we were going to get the 5 second call on more than one possession. GoDuke!

I agree that it looked like something that Duke hadn't practiced a whole lot. But, I also think it's possible that this team hasn't really worked on breaking the press that much. Early in the season, and with such a young team -- with returning players being asked to fill new roles around Hood and Parker, I can imagine breaking the press not being very high on the list of things to focus on. I mean, this Duke team doesn't seem like the type of team you'd press... given the number of ball handlers and finishers out there. It turns out -- at least right now -- that we are in fact a team that can be pressed. At one point, Quinn (or someone else) had 3 Alabama players trapping them --- that leaves 2 defenders covering 4 Duke players. So, yeah, I have a feeling we'll do better next time...

[jv001]

Players like Hurley and JWill and Kyrie could break the press alone. Quinn doesn't have quite that degree of control or handle. Thus, there is one sure fire way to break the press AND score... Pass the ball. Usually a bigger guy in the middle near center court who gets the ball, turns opposite, passes again and there is often a 2- or 3-on-1. Yes, other players need to be in the right position. That's really the easy part. A little practice should make a huge difference. I have faith this will be addressed.

Those three players you named could beat the press almost by themselves. But there are few of those guards around college basketball any longer. Duke has used a big man in the middle near center court to pass the ball to. Then another quick one or two passes could end up with a layup for this team. No way this team should falter against the press. GoDuke!