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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Here is Duke's record during Wade's best run, 1936 through 1941. The AP rankings began in 1936.

    Code:
    Year	W	L	T	AP
    1936	9	1		11
    1937	7	2	1	20
    1938	9	1		3
    1939	8	1		8
    1940	7	2		18
    1941	9	1		2
    Tot	49	8	1
    The winning percentage was 85.3 percent. Duke's two best teams, which could easily have been ranked number one at the end of the regular seasons, lost in upsets in the Rose Bowl.

    sagegrouse
    WWS is named after a coach who certainly put up some numbers. Potentially a new stadium someday would be called "The Cut."

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    WWS is named after a coach who certainly put up some numbers. Potentially a new stadium someday would be called "The Cut."
    I wouldn't mind if the team started playing at "David Cutcliffe Field at Wallace Wade Stadium." It certainly works in basketball.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC

    Wasn't around then but

    Quote Originally Posted by Dev11 View Post
    7-3. USC scored in the final minute of the game. If we hadn't given up that late TD, we could have a football national championship almost as impressive as UNC's Helms title.

    http://www.dukechronicle.com/article...erfection-1938
    didn't USC bring in a 2nd string QB that led them to that TD that cost Duke and undefeated/unscored on season? Jim? GoDuke!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    didn't USC bring in a 2nd string QB that led them to that TD that cost Duke and undefeated/unscored on season? Jim? GoDuke!
    Yep. Doyle Nave. A better passer than the starter.

    The story is that Wade didn't actually see the TD. He was sitting down and one of his players stood up and blocked him out.

    So, maybe it never really happened.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Yep. Doyle Nave. A better passer than the starter.

    The story is that Wade didn't actually see the TD. He was sitting down and one of his players stood up and blocked him out.

    So, maybe it never really happened.
    If anyone knew the answer to my question, I thought it would be you. And not because of age, lol. Thanks and have a Happy Thanksgiving. GoDuke!

  6. #26

    duke football

    Just a few points --

    -- Doyle Nave was actually the third-team quarterback. The TD pass was caught by second-team end Al Kreuger ... who did go on to be an All-American the next year.

    -- Duke's final No. 3 ranking had nothing to do with the loss -- the final polls were taken in that era BEFORE the bowls. When Maryland won the 1953 AP and UPI national title, the Terps lost their bowl game -- falling 7-0 to Oklahoma in the regular season. But just to show how things balance out, undefeated Maryland finished second to Tennessee in 1952 -- and stayed No. 2 even after the Vols lost their bowl game. I'm not sure exactly when the polls starting re-voting after the bowls, but it was not that long ago.

    -- Davekay, you don't have to invent a bogus national title for Duke football. Duke actually won two national titles in that era -- in 1936, James Howell (a syndicated football writer) voted 9-1 Duke as his national title. In 1941, Ray Byrne, who ran another major football subscription service picked 9-0 (before the bowls) Duke as his national champ:

    http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div...nal_champs.php

    Are those valid national titles? I would argue that they are MORE valid than UNC's Helms title in basketball, which was awarded 18 years after the fact by the business manager of a bread company, who had zero basketball experience. These two national titles were awarded by acknowledged football experts and (more significantly) were awarded at the end of the season -- not 18 years later. I've seen both Alabama and Georgia Tech include the Byrne title in their list of championships. The Football Data Warehouse lists the Byrne and Howell awards in the same category as ther Herlms Foundation -- as "Discontinued national championship awards."

    So if UNC is going to hang a banner for their phony-baloney national championship, I believe Duke should hang banners for its TWO equally valid football nation al championships.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Speaking of banners.... Duke was the conference football champion more times than any other conference member until relatively recently. Banners for conference championships would certainly reflect actual achievements.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    Speaking of banners.... Duke was the conference football champion more times than any other conference member until relatively recently. Banners for conference championships would certainly reflect actual achievements.
    Not always. Duke finished first on the field in the ACC in 1965, at 4-2, tying South Carolina, but with a win over South Carolina. Following the season it was determined that South Carolina had used an ineligible player. They had to forfeit their wins.

    Since Duke had defeated South Carolina that year, the forfeits didn't benefit Duke. But South Carolina's on-field wins over NC State and Clemson became NC State and Clemson wins. So those two teams flipped from 4-3 in the ACC to 5-2, thus leap-frogging Duke.

    The ACC recognizes NC State and Clemson as ACC co-champions for that season.

    FWIW.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Not always. Duke finished first on the field in the ACC in 1965, at 4-2, tying South Carolina, but with a win over South Carolina. Following the season it was determined that South Carolina had used an ineligible player. They had to forfeit their wins.

    Since Duke had defeated South Carolina that year, the forfeits didn't benefit Duke. But South Carolina's on-field wins over NC State and Clemson became NC State and Clemson wins. So those two teams flipped from 4-3 in the ACC to 5-2, thus leap-frogging Duke.

    The ACC recognizes NC State and Clemson as ACC co-champions for that season.

    FWIW.
    That is true. Duke did hold the record for number of conference championships, a fact conveniently overlooked by many not associated with Duke. Most happened in the early years of The ACC.

  10. #30

    Duke titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    That is true. Duke did hold the record for number of conference championships, a fact conveniently overlooked by many not associated with Duke. Most happened in the early years of The ACC.
    Duke won or shared six of the first 10 ACC titles. Officially, the current count for ACC titles is:

    Clemson 14 (actually 13)
    FSU 12
    Maryland 9
    Duke 7 (actually eight)
    N.C. State 7 (actually six)
    UNC 5
    VPI 4
    Virginia 2
    Wake 2
    South Carolina 1

    The reason I dispute the official total in 1965. Duke finished that season at 4-2 ... tied with South Carolina. N.C. State and Clemson finished tied for third at 4-3. Six months later, long after the title was awarded, new South Carolina AD Paul Dietzel reported that his predecessor, Marvin Bass, had used two ineligible players. Although they were inconsequential players, ACC Commissioner Jim Weaver dictated that South Carolina forfeit its six ACC games. That didn't help Duke, which had beaten South Carolina on the field, but it did help N.C. State and Clemson, which had both lost to the Gamecocks. The decision made their ACC record 5-2 ... so Weaver awarded them the championship -- essentially, Duke was robbed because South Carolina cheated! I( should also point out that when North Carolina was penalized for two years of ineligible players, their games were vacated, not forfeited -- meaning nobody improved their record Had the ACC applied the same rules to the Tar Heels, several division champions in 2008 and 2009 would have been different.

    Anyway, I count 1965 among Duke's eight ACC titles. Duke also won 10 Southern Conference titles -- 1933, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1944, 1945 and 1952.

    That's 18 ... I don't know the number of SC titles for Clemson, but it's very possible that Duke still has more conference titles than any other current ACC school.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Duke won or shared six of the first 10 ACC titles. Officially, the current count for ACC titles is:

    Clemson 14 (actually 13)
    FSU 12
    Maryland 9
    Duke 7 (actually eight)
    N.C. State 7 (actually six)
    UNC 5
    VPI 4
    Virginia 2
    Wake 2
    South Carolina 1

    The reason I dispute the official total in 1965. Duke finished that season at 4-2 ... tied with South Carolina. N.C. State and Clemson finished tied for third at 4-3. Six months later, long after the title was awarded, new South Carolina AD Paul Dietzel reported that his predecessor, Marvin Bass, had used two ineligible players. Although they were inconsequential players, ACC Commissioner Jim Weaver dictated that South Carolina forfeit its six ACC games. That didn't help Duke, which had beaten South Carolina on the field, but it did help N.C. State and Clemson, which had both lost to the Gamecocks. The decision made their ACC record 5-2 ... so Weaver awarded them the championship -- essentially, Duke was robbed because South Carolina cheated! I( should also point out that when North Carolina was penalized for two years of ineligible players, their games were vacated, not forfeited -- meaning nobody improved their record Had the ACC applied the same rules to the Tar Heels, several division champions in 2008 and 2009 would have been different.

    Anyway, I count 1965 among Duke's eight ACC titles. Duke also won 10 Southern Conference titles -- 1933, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1944, 1945 and 1952.

    That's 18 ... I don't know the number of SC titles for Clemson, but it's very possible that Duke still has more conference titles than any other current ACC school.
    Bravo!

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Duke won or shared six of the first 10 ACC titles. Officially, the current count for ACC titles is:

    Clemson 14 (actually 13)
    FSU 12
    Maryland 9
    Duke 7 (actually eight)
    N.C. State 7 (actually six)
    UNC 5
    VPI 4
    Virginia 2
    Wake 2
    South Carolina 1

    The reason I dispute the official total in 1965. Duke finished that season at 4-2 ... tied with South Carolina. N.C. State and Clemson finished tied for third at 4-3. Six months later, long after the title was awarded, new South Carolina AD Paul Dietzel reported that his predecessor, Marvin Bass, had used two ineligible players. Although they were inconsequential players, ACC Commissioner Jim Weaver dictated that South Carolina forfeit its six ACC games. That didn't help Duke, which had beaten South Carolina on the field, but it did help N.C. State and Clemson, which had both lost to the Gamecocks. The decision made their ACC record 5-2 ... so Weaver awarded them the championship -- essentially, Duke was robbed because South Carolina cheated! I( should also point out that when North Carolina was penalized for two years of ineligible players, their games were vacated, not forfeited -- meaning nobody improved their record Had the ACC applied the same rules to the Tar Heels, several division champions in 2008 and 2009 would have been different.

    Anyway, I count 1965 among Duke's eight ACC titles. Duke also won 10 Southern Conference titles -- 1933, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1944, 1945 and 1952.

    That's 18 ... I don't know the number of SC titles for Clemson, but it's very possible that Duke still has more conference titles than any other current ACC school.
    This is why it makes more sense to vacate wins than to retroactively convert the games to forfeits.

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