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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Firstly, congrats to Vermont. Great opponent. Lots of experience, lots of heart.

    Secondly, good looking offense. 91 points - not bad.

    Thirdly to God-knows-what-the-list-is, that was PATHETIC defense. I thought our defense was bad during the Austin Rivers year, but this was so much worse. And don't BLAME the refs or the new rules, it's Duke 100%.

    Jabari, Andre, Cook, Sheed, and Amile had terrible defense. I now see the true value of Hairston and Thornton: when you're mediocre at D, you look like Shane Battier and Wojo in comparison to your teammates who can't defend to save their lives.

    I hope Coach K kicks their collective asses for the next 3 days. This team needs it. There is no toughness, there is no cohesive defense, there is little heart.

    And I do not feel that I am overreating. Vermont was 1-4 walking into this game (and losing to St. Joes, Bryant, Providence, and Wagner) and scoring an average of 63 points. We were in Cameron, we are a top 10 team, and we had plenty of rest coming into this game.

    Wow...just wow.
    Agreed. Some of the worst defense on a Coach K team I've ever seen (and I've probably watched every game since 1992).

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    their zone flummoxed Duke. Gonna suck facing Syracuse if they don't learn how to beat it.
    It may be of interest to note that ECU also played zone and managed to hang with us as well.
    The scouting report on us is definitely out if tonight is any indicator. Very few teams can match us man-to-man, so they wont, they will go zone.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Everywhere

    No, no, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketeli View Post
    Too close! Before anyone turns into chicken little--Vermont played out of their frickin minds. We need to work on our rebounding though.
    Nope. This was a pitiful win. Yes, there is such a thing and we just witnessed it. Sure, it's better than an admirable loss, but still pitiful. First ECU, and now Vermont. Frickin' Vermont drops 90 on our floor.
    The sky is not falling but this team clearly has not figured out defense yet, and if it does not soon, we can score all we want but will lose quite a few games.
    Hard to be too excited after what just happened.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketeli View Post
    Too close! Before anyone turns into chicken little--Vermont played out of their frickin minds. We need to work on our rebounding though.
    Rebounding was a bright spot tonight. We out rebounded them 30-24. We shot reasonably well both from the field (48%) and the three (37%). We especially shot free throws well tonight, and those free throws down the stretch made the difference in the end.

    But OMG that defense. OMG. Vermont didn't play out of their frickin' minds. They played in the paint. Because we let them.

    I hope we don't hear from Coach K in his presser what a great basketball game this was against a great well-coached opponent. Malarkey. This was an embarrassingly close win against a 1-4 Vemont team, because Duke failed on the defensive end tonight.

  5. #25
    Vermont shot ridiculously well from long distance, but they also had a ridiculous number of uncontested layups. Not sure about the 4 point play call, nor the late foul on Vermont, which sort of killed the game from a neutral perspective. Clearly we have some problems, but Vermont was awesome, so props to them. Also, Jabari saved our buns. Probably not for the last time.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    If team after team shoots lights out against us perhaps our defense is just bad. In the new environment the pressure man defense leaves you exposed on the backside time and time again.
    They didn't shoot the lights out. They got layups. Even more glaring indictment of the defense.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Head View Post
    Vermont shot ridiculously well from long distance, but they also had a ridiculous number of uncontested layups. Not sure about the 4 point play call, nor the late foul on Vermont, which sort of killed the game from a neutral perspective. Clearly we have some problems, but Vermont was awesome, so props to them. Also, Jabari saved our buns. Probably not for the last time.
    Vermont shot 30.8% from long distance. Hardly "ridiculously well."

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Durham
    We have a lot of players this year that are liabilities on the defensive end. So many Duke players lose their men on backdoor cuts, fail to switch properly on the picks, make no effort to block out, etc etc. Good news is that these are things that can be learned. But two of the biggest problems on the defensive end are Jabari and Rodney, and K has pretty much handed them the keys. Hopefully they are willing to learn after a performance like this.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    The Northwest
    Cook plays nice defense from the other baseline to the three point line. THen NO ONE plays any defense from the three point line to our own baseline. Pressure defense is meaningless when you don't put any hands on the ball to make actual turnovers and when some simple dribbling allows you to not only beat it, but beat it so badly that it forces other help to leave their man because now people are wide open.

  10. #30
    Kids don't learn defense in high school. This team is young. They will get better.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Vermont shot 30.8% from long distance. Hardly "ridiculously well."
    From 3 yeah, but a bunch of those were midrange jumpers. "Ridiculously well" might be exaggerating it a bit, but they made all the clutch ones.

  12. #32
    Interesting that the Vermont coach said he decided to defend with the zone when he saw how much success ECU had with it, even though he normally hates zone. Said the new rules on contact almost require playing some zone. Food for thought for the Duke coaching staff.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Vermont shot 64.8% from the floor. WOW. They missed 7 free throws. A couple more makes, and we might be talking about one of the biggest upsets ever. I expect Coach K to make starting lineup changes next game. Thornton is a lock to start, but unfortunately, he's also averaging like 4.9 fouls per game right now with these new rules. Boy, what's going on with Sulaimon? He has really shot the ball poorly as of late, and his defense has been almost equally bad. That's one guy who we really need to step it up right now. He's capable of playing so much better than this.
    Last edited by kAzE; 11-24-2013 at 08:57 PM.

  14. #34

    Yikes...

    Who cares about rebounding at this point. 90 points to Vermont!?

    Defending the layup seems to be the main issue.

    They gave up more layups than a 650 yard par 5.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Head View Post
    From 3 yeah, but a bunch of those were midrange jumpers. "Ridiculously well" might be exaggerating it a bit, but they made all the clutch ones.
    They hit quite a few mid-range shots. They did not shoot well from long distance.

  16. #36

    At least it is a win

    Our scoring is excellent, now we need to make changes that include playing defense and rebounding. I am not as convinced Thornton is helping the team much although he has a lot of supporters at Duke. Anyhow, coach K needs to think of what next. Only a couple of days until we play again so not much time to correct things. Would a bigger player inside have helped? I agree that Vermont scored from mid range and inside more than from the three.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Head View Post
    From 3 yeah, but a bunch of those were midrange jumpers. "Ridiculously well" might be exaggerating it a bit, but they made all the clutch ones.
    Yes they hit a bunch of pull up and mid-range jumpers, not just layups...

    And many of the jumpers were pretty well defended.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    They hit quite a few mid-range shots. They did not shoot well from long distance.
    Congratulations on your semantic victory!

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by KandG View Post
    Interesting that the Vermont coach said he decided to defend with the zone when he saw how much success ECU had with it, even though he normally hates zone. Said the new rules on contact almost require playing some zone. Food for thought for the Duke coaching staff.
    I (and others) brought this up a week or two ago. We may need to go zone. We won't do it, but we may need to do it.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    new york

    Rodney

    Quote Originally Posted by Camandill View Post
    Kids don't learn defense in high school. This team is young. They will get better.
    Well, Rodney's had two years of college to learn. How many times did he allow points by not boxing out? And wasn't D supposed to be part of his resume? He's been great overall, and we're certainly lucky to have him, but astonishing to watch Vermont get all those layups and putbacks. I don't get it. Some years we were bad on D because we didn't have the "athletes." Hard to see why we should be so bad now. It's not Greg Paulus being beat off the dribble.

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