Jabari

[NYBri]

The one thing to remember about comparing grant hill and parker is that most of the top talent (soph, jr, sr) is in the NBA allowing freshman to shine. There are not many Laettner's and Hurley's returning to teams anymore to make a superstar freshman take somewhat of a back seat.

Instead of the 3 star freshman last night we might have been talking about senior Kyrie Irving and Kentucky's Anthony Davis plus the numerous other stars that would still have college eligibility left.

With that being said.. Parker did look like he would be great regardless of the competition.

Great point. I'd like to be talking Kyrie today.

[kAzE]

Parker is incredible, but we need to see more before these comparisons can be made. I think I still have to go with Hill, then Irving as the best players to play at Duke so far, and I think Irving has the potential to pass Hill. I just remember watching that early season game in 2010 against Michigan State where Irving was just dominant. I got chills down my spine watching him play in that game, and I remember just thinking: "Wow, that kid is really, really special."

If you forgot, here's a refresher: http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=303350150

And no, Parker has not had a game like that yet.

I'm still waiting for Parker to show us that he can close a game. Both games thus far, he's dominated in the first half, but seemingly run out of gas in the 2nd. Is it a conditioning issue? Does he not have a killer instinct? It remains to be seen, but I know one thing for sure, Kyrie Irving is the best closer (with apologies to Laettner) to ever play at Duke. The guy is absolutely clutch in the last 5 minutes of the 4th and OT. He can just shift into another gear that most players don't have when the game is on the line. Anybody catch that double OT game against the Raptors? Irving was magnificent.

Right now, I would say Jabari has maybe put himself in the top 10 for best ballers to play at Duke, but he's still got a long way to go.

[moonpie23]

Although I am having a little trouble parsing your question: Will JP have the best Duke career? Or the best NBA career of any Dukie? Or what? But, Jabari Parker and Kyrie Irving have had the best starts of any player for Duke since freshmen became eligibile. FWIW, Johnny Dawkins started 14-18-28-20 in his first four games, but the cupboard was bare before he and his classmates arrived on the scene in the fall of 1982.

sagegrouse

preCISELY…..

[bob blue devil]

Just don't tell the new people what the pitchforks mean.

Wait, shoot.

I'm going to let the cat out of the bag - they are a sign of having a lot of time on your hands...

[whereinthehellami]

I'm going to let the cat out of the bag - they are a sign of having a lot of time on your hands...

So, what are you saying?

[Dev11]

I'm going to let the cat out of the bag - they are a sign of having a lot of time on your hands...

Isn't that what this whole site is for?

[Highlander]

Anyone crowning Jabari Parker as the greatest player to ever put on a Duke uniform needs to go back and watch his (lack of) post defense in the past two games. He is an offensive wizard, but his defense needs to take a couple of steps up before I think we start the best ever bandwagon.

[jv001]

Anyone crowning Jabari Parker as the greatest player to ever put on a Duke uniform needs to go back and watch his (lack of) post defense in the past two games. He is an offensive wizard, but his defense needs to take a couple of steps up before I think we start the best ever bandwagon.

I'm not saying Jabari Parker is Duke's greatest player ever, but he is a very good player. As for his post defense, I think the decision to front the low post players caused most of his problems. I think that decision came from the coaches. However his ability to hedge on the screens up top, was poor. But so was Quinn and Josh. I think Jabari will improve greatly in his defense. He seems to have the make up to excel in all facets of the game. GoDuke!

[Ichabod Drain]

Anyone crowning Jabari Parker as the greatest player to ever put on a Duke uniform needs to go back and watch his (lack of) post defense in the past two games. He is an offensive wizard, but his defense needs to take a couple of steps up before I think we start the best ever bandwagon.

In the Kansas game he let a couple plays go on defense simply to avoid picking up fouls. It's going to be hard for anyone to play good D for 25-30 minutes a game this year without getting in foul trouble.

[Highlander]

In the Kansas game he let a couple plays go on defense simply to avoid picking up fouls. It's going to be hard for anyone to play good D for 25-30 minutes a game this year without getting in foul trouble.

I saw a lot more than just a couple of plays. Parker defended Ellis for much of the game, and Ellis led all scorers with 24 shooting 9-13. Ellis also played 35 minutes and had only 2 fouls, FWIW. Not all of those points are Parker's fault, but he was repeatedly caught out of position and didn't switch well on screens, giving Ellis wide open looks. Parker also gave up a silly foul on a breakaway that disqualified him at the end of the game when he should have just let the play go.

The new rule changes make it very difficult to defend cutters and the post, and I personally hate how ticky tack the foul calls seem to be. I agree it is going to be difficult to play tough defense for 30-35 minutes in the post without fouling. If Parker is as historically good as some people here are predicting, he'll need to figure out how to defend much more effectively than he has to date.

Don't get me wrong - Parker's offense is brilliant and downright unstoppable at times. I just think his defense is most definitely a WIP.

[Billy Dat]

To the original poster, duke96, I agree that the board can be maddening at time with other posters only commenting to criticize, but, as in life, I'd say to try and listen to the criticism without emotion and see if there is any truth in it. Or, simply ignore it all together if you don't agree. Message board culture tends to be really negative, but this board is at least moderated to be civil, and the population tends to be fairly demanding when it comes to precision of thought and logic of reasoning. Don't get discouraged, your original post, after all, has sparked an interesting discussion.

I think there are three ways to approach answering the original, slightly ambiguous question.

-Who had the best Duke career?
-Who had the most accomplished overall basketball career?
-Who, regardless of the first two categories, was the most talented basketball player (combining raw athletic ability and basketball IQ/ability to execute on the court)?

I only add the third category to make a case for Jason Williams. Would he have been as good a pro as Grant? It is really impossible to say that he wouldn't. Rookie point guards have a steep learning curve. While his rookie year wasn't as smooth as Kyrie's, he was figuring it out. That kid was such an electric talent. I'd have to put Grant at #1 because of his two way play. But, from a pure talent perspective, Williams might be #2 behind Grant.

This list might be Grant>Kyrie>Jason Williams>Boozer/Brand>Deng

Because of the difference in era, I find it hard to properly place Mullins and Marin. Both would rank very high in the second category as both were 10,000+ point NBA scorers with multiple All Star game appearances. It's just hard to evaluate how well they'd play in a modern game against modern athletes. The next guys on my list were some order of Redick, Laettner, Maggette, Dawkins, GMan, Battier, Dunleavy, Ferry, etc.

As for Jabari, he certainly has the potential to crack the very top of that list.

[duke96]

To the original poster, duke96, I agree that the board can be maddening at time with other posters only commenting to criticize, but, as in life, I'd say to try and listen to the criticism without emotion and see if there is any truth in it. Or, simply ignore it all together if you don't agree. Message board culture tends to be really negative, but this board is at least moderated to be civil, and the population tends to be fairly demanding when it comes to precision of thought and logic of reasoning. Don't get discouraged, your original post, after all, has sparked an interesting discussion.

I think there are three ways to approach answering the original, slightly ambiguous question.

-Who had the best Duke career?
-Who had the most accomplished overall basketball career?
-Who, regardless of the first two categories, was the most talented basketball player (combining raw athletic ability and basketball IQ/ability to execute on the court)?

I only add the third category to make a case for Jason Williams. Would he have been as good a pro as Grant? It is really impossible to say that he wouldn't. Rookie point guards have a steep learning curve. While his rookie year wasn't as smooth as Kyrie's, he was figuring it out. That kid was such an electric talent. I'd have to put Grant at #1 because of his two way play. But, from a pure talent perspective, Williams might be #2 behind Grant.

This list might be Grant>Kyrie>Jason Williams>Boozer/Brand>Deng

Because of the difference in era, I find it hard to properly place Mullins and Marin. Both would rank very high in the second category as both were 10,000+ point NBA scorers with multiple All Star game appearances. It's just hard to evaluate how well they'd play in a modern game against modern athletes. The next guys on my list were some order of Redick, Laettner, Maggette, Dawkins, GMan, Battier, Dunleavy, Ferry, etc.

As for Jabari, he certainly has the potential to crack the very top of that list.

Billy thanks for the note. Great points. I left the question somewhat ambiguous in that respect intentionally as I thought it might provoke a more interesting dialogue -- and I agree that it has! I also share your views about JWill's talent and how it ranks. Still saddened that we never got to see his NBA potential. I do agree early signs from Jabari suggest that he could indeed ultimately prove to be top of the list. Can't wait to see more!

[jamesfrommaiden]

Will he turn out to have been the most talented player to have ever played for Duke?

From what I have seen so far, I think this is likely. Obviously this is rarified air, to say the least.

Thoughts?

Did you ever see a player named Grant Hill? He was pretty talented. Plus Grant was a champion. Talent is wonderful. Talent is necessary. Championships are the goal.

[weezie]

Did you ever see a player named Grant Hill? He was pretty talented. Plus Grant was a champion. Talent is wonderful. Talent is necessary. Championships are the goal.

Absolutely. But Grant had some help from Messieurs Laettner and Hurley for those championships. Jabari can't do it without a well-coordinated offense. It was harder for Grant to pull it off towards the latter part of his Duke career and Grant is admittedly one of the greatest Blue Devils ever.

[Kedsy]

Parker defended Ellis for much of the game, and Ellis led all scorers with 24 shooting 9-13. Ellis also played 35 minutes and had only 2 fouls, FWIW.

Actually Ellis did not lead all scorers. Jabari did, dropping 27... on Ellis.

[nmduke2001]

Asked what grade he would give himself for the Kansas game, Jabari chose a C-. Pretty refreshing how badly this kid wants to win and improve.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...dle/?eref=sihp

[the_grad_student]

I think these responses might be getting the right answers but with the wrong justifications. Talent has nothing to do with championships, career accomplishments (Duke or NBA) or level of competition. It's just the raw, innate ability. A more fair comparison is Jabari now vs. any other Duke player 2 games into their career. Grant Hill was a bit before my time, so I'll defer to others on this one. The most striking thing about Kyrie was that he not only had the skills to dominate with speed, touch, decision-making, and execution, but he made the entire offense click - a rare feat so early in a season. Let's remember that the '10-'11 season was a major change in offensive style (Scheyer->Kyrie; slow->fast) and an adjustment period would be absolutely expected. At this point, Jabari has the talent to dominate games for sure, but I don't think any of us would say he has the ability to instantly create an offensive flow that makes the other 4 on the floor better like Kyrie.

Sure, they play different positions. I'd give the edge to Kyrie right now because as a PG, running an entire offense has a slightly higher degree of difficulty and requires a broader skill set.

[cato]

Asked what grade he would give himself for the Kansas game, Jabari chose a C-. Pretty refreshing how badly this kid wants to win and improve.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...dle/?eref=sihp

Okay, after reading that article, I give Parker a shot. It's easy to forget just how great Grant Hill was, but he almost won a third championship with a non-championship caliber supporting cast. I have often wondered if Duke would ever have a player like Grant again.*

But with that self-assessment and reports of his drive, I have to imagine he will catch up on D and, provided he enjoys good health, could catch Grant one day.


* Actually, we all know the answer to this is "no," since we had Grant for four years. But you know what I mean.

[CajunDevil]

So, after watching Jabari's first two games at Duke and several of his high school games, I think we are witnessing a unique talent. During the first half I felt like I was watching vintage Larry Bird performance. His step-back three is like watching Kevin Durant. His post offense is Carmelo-esque. His alley oop was pure Grant Hill. Jabari's court vision - his drive and kick to Sheed for the 1st half corner three was LeBron-esque.

One of the most impressive things so far Jabari's footwork. I'm as amazed at his footwork as I was at Kyrie's handles as a Freshman. Just focus on how JP jab steps then rises for his jumper, or pivots in the post for his fadeaway J. Even his euro(ish)-step was impressive.

Many on this board will say this is simply hyperbole or whatever... so be it. The kid is great! He is the most complete basketball player Duke's ever had as a Freshman and the most talented overall, imho. Let's take a quick look at the top two contenders, imo:

Grant Hill - at this point in his Freshman year Grant had no jumper. In fact, his jumper was a weak link in his game until a few years into his NBA career, and even then it wasn't a thing of beauty. Was Grant better defensively? Maybe, maybe not? Given the game plan of fronting KU's bigs, Jabari did a respectable job getting two steals and a block, and the most defensive rebs of anyone in the game. Grant in '94 vs. Jabari as a Freshman is a better comparison, but at this point, Freshman GH vs Freshman JP it's not close, imo.

Kyrie Irving - Kyrie is JP's closest competition, in terms of being the best player at this stage of his Duke career. Kyrie has the best handles in the NBA now and had amazing handles his Freshman year, as he dominated MSU early on. However, I think JP's size and ability to go inside/out gives him the edge - but it's always hard to compare different positions.

[moonpie23]

LOVE me some jabari parker and i'm THRILLED that he came to duke….


but, seriously 10 for 10 for 10…..