MBB: Duke 111, Davidson 77 Post-Game Thread

[MCFinARL]

Coach K has always played the guys who he feels give the team the best chance to win. Right now, he doesn't feel that Dawkins fits in to that description. He probably has no idea what type rotation he's going to stick with going forward, it's all dependent upon what the guys show him in practice. That's how it should be, in my opinion. If Dawkins proves that he deserves to play minutes ahead of some of those other guys, then he will.

Just pointing out again (someone noted this earlier) that the "doghouse" discussion with Coach K related to Rasheed Sulaimon, not Andre Dawkins. It's true, though, that nothing anyone has said or heard suggests that Andre is in the doghouse any more than Rasheed.

[dukepsy1963]

I saw the game in person... all I can say is, "oh my!"

We are off and running!

[Troublemaker]

I'd say you summed up the way I feel too. I'd just like to see Andre, a fifth year senior, doing something more (in game) than sitting on the bench. But if the reality is he's really that low on the depth chart (and I have no reason to think anything else is in play) then just take my comments as those of someone who'd like to see a senior that has endured an awful lot finish with a bang and have a wonderful last year. It's just my wish as one human being pulling for another. Nothing more, nothing less.

Agreed. One thing I'd add to the Andre discussion is the possible role of the new rule changes/emphases. Quinn said after the Davidson game that the first time Duke played with live refs this season was the Blue-White game, and the team is still adjusting to how things are called. I don't think it's coincidental that from the Blue-White game on, Andre's role has been reduced. I think the officials are calling things a bit tighter than even our coaching staff could anticipate, and that puts a premium on slashers and therefore lowers Andre's relative value, especially since Sheed and it seems to me Matt are very good slashers and are better options than Andre to defend against slashers as well. That could be why Andre started out as a starter or 6th man but is now seemingly out of the rotation.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Agreed. One thing I'd add to the Andre discussion is the possible role of the new rule changes/emphases. Quinn said after the Davidson game that the first time Duke played with live refs this season was the Blue-White game, and the team is still adjusting to how things are called. I don't think it's coincidental that from the Blue-White game on, Andre's role has been reduced. I think the officials are calling things a bit tighter than even our coaching staff could anticipate, and that puts a premium on slashers and therefore lowers Andre's relative value, especially since Sheed and it seems to me Matt are very good slashers and are better options than Andre to defend against slashers as well. That could be why Andre started out as a starter or 6th man but is now seemingly out of the rotation.

I really don't think that officials are the main reason why Andre hasn't played very much. Is it possible that, compared to the rest of the talent on the team, Andre just isn't as good? That the minutes go to the players who have the most combined talent on O and D? That Tyler, Rasheed, and Matt provide more value?

We all want Andre to succeed, but providing excuses rather than facing the current facts isn't the way to go about it. I feel bad for the kid, but may be this is what he wants. I'm sure he had multiple talks with parents, mentors, Coach K, assistant coaches, etc. and, with that advice in hand, he chose to go back to Duke when he could have transferred to nearly any D1 school and play many more minutes. To Andre, maybe there is more to basketball than playing a lot of minutes. Maybe he missed his teammates, maybe he wanted life coaching from the staff, and maybe he wanted something to further help with the grief.

Regardless of what happens, I think Andre will be fine. IMO, I don't think he's gonna play much this year, but that has more to do with our packed backcourt than Andre.

[Troublemaker]

I really don't think that officials are the main reason why Andre hasn't played very much. Is it possible that, compared to the rest of the talent on the team, Andre just isn't as good? That the minutes go to the players who have the most combined talent on O and D? That Tyler, Rasheed, and Matt provide more value?

We all want Andre to succeed, but providing excuses rather than facing the current facts isn't the way to go about it.

Yes, all that is possible. I'm guess I'm wondering if it was made even more possible by the current rules changes/emphases. Because Andre had run with the starters in both the Open Practice and the Blue-White game, and the word from insiders (I use a pay site) was that Andre had been starting in the early practices and playing really well. My guess is he was playing above his mean level at first, and then his quality dropped some, and the current conditions playing with new rule changes/emphases seem to emphasize his weaknesses. Hence the slide from co-starter to non-rotation.

I don't see it as excuse-making. I see it as one possible theory as to how events played out for Andre, and it may very well be right. Or wrong.

[FerryFor50]

Yes, all that is possible. I'm guess I'm wondering if it was made even more possible by the current rules changes/emphases. Because Andre had run with the starters in both the Open Practice and the Blue-White game, and the word from insiders (I use a pay site) was that Andre had been starting in the early practices and playing really well. My guess is he was playing above his mean level at first, and then his quality dropped some, and the current conditions playing with new rule changes/emphases seem to emphasize his weaknesses. Hence the slide from co-starter to non-rotation.

I don't see it as excuse-making. I see it as one possible theory as to how events played out for Andre, and it may very well be right. Or wrong.

Could also be that his conditioning isn't up to snuff yet. Or that K wants Andre to work on some things first.

I think it's way too early to tell what Andre's role will be this season. If he's still at the end of the bench by the start of the ACC schedule, then I think we'll have a better idea.

[JNort]

I haven't read through the whole thread yet but I feel from what I have read is that our defense is taking to much heat. Let me give my .02 and why I say don't worry.

1. The new rules this year allow for higher scoring which was noticeable in every game not just ours.

2. We played with many different lineups and players and not necessarily our best lineups and players. Against tougher teams K will most likely use a shorter rotation.

3. You can't defend the free throw line. They shot 80% and got 22 points as a result.