Athleticism

[BD80]

I don't think I agree with this. ... LOTS of strong people are not particularly fast. ...

If I could catch you, you'd rue those words ...

[sagegrouse]

Wait - aren't they negatively correlated, for the most part. If you build mass, you are heavier and hence more likely to be slower. I look at football as the primary justification.

Also, even if there are exceptions, any relationship can be highly correlated. That's statistics 101

The training for sprinters is designed to build strength and muscle tone in the torso as well as in the legs. Yuo run with those muscles as well.

You are right that a person strong as an ox is not necessarily any faster than one.

sagegrouse

[flyingdutchdevil]

Watch Semi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viB6rGUhEIM

Insane!!!!

[ChillinDuke]

Watch Semi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viB6rGUhEIM

Insane!!!!

Oh.

My.

God.

- Chillin

[FerryFor50]

Watch Semi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viB6rGUhEIM

Insane!!!!

So while that is cool and all, it just supports the theory that all athletic means is "can jump high."

There are athletic guys who don't jump well, which Duke has had on occasion. I think to play successful basketball at a D1 level, you have to be athletic to some degree.

[Henderson]

Watch Semi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viB6rGUhEIM

Insane!!!!

By any definition, that's athletic. Many cinder blocks. And what about that pass from Tyler from just over half court?

So, to try to get this thread back on track, how's the athleticism of our 2014 signee (Grayson) and the prospects? I've only seen videos (mostly highlights, which can be pretty misleading overall). All of them appear to be great basketball players, but none seems to be an athletic freak.

[CDu]

So while that is cool and all, it just supports the theory that all athletic means is "can jump high."

There are athletic guys who don't jump well, which Duke has had on occasion. I think to play successful basketball at a D1 level, you have to be athletic to some degree.

Agreed. Irving was extremely quick, fairly strong, and incredibly coordinated. He was not an outstanding leaper. But I'd absolutely classify him as athletic. Moreso than Henderson who was not quick but could jump really high.

[NYBri]

Watch Semi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viB6rGUhEIM

Insane!!!!

Cannot WAIT for the season to start. Gonna see more than one of those this year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Agreed. Irving was extremely quick, fairly strong, and incredibly coordinated. He was not an outstanding leaper. But I'd absolutely classify him as athletic. Moreso than Henderson who was not quick but could jump really high.

Hendo has the agility, the strength, and the leaping ability. While he didn't have the speed, I think he's one of the highest on the "Duke athletic scale". Kyrie has the agility and the speed, but lacks the leaping ability and the strength. He is also athletic, but, IMO, lower on the "Duke athletic scale" than Hendo.

It's super subjective. I honestly define athletic as the "wow factor," ie plays that make your jaw drop. The Kyrie absolutely has those, but they are on the ground vs in the air, which I think people often discount (myself included). Grant, Hendo, Corey, and Dahntay were insane in the air, and I think that is why many of us consider that athletic.

[timmy c]

Watch Semi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viB6rGUhEIM

Insane!!!!

I was memorized. Had to watch it several times... The pass from Thornton was on target from half court and semi just went up and throttled it thru the rim. WOW!

[tommy]

By any definition, that's athletic. Many cinder blocks. And what about that pass from Tyler from just over half court?

So, to try to get this thread back on track, how's the athleticism of our 2014 signee (Grayson) and the prospects? I've only seen videos (mostly highlights, which can be pretty misleading overall). All of them appear to be great basketball players, but none seems to be an athletic freak.

\

Lots of different ways folks are defining athleticism, which is fine of course. All I can tell you is that Grayson Allen has very good springs. He gets up in the air very well and can make plays up there.

[flyingdutchdevil]

\

Lots of different ways folks are defining athleticism, which is fine of course. All I can tell you is that Grayson Allen has very good springs. He gets up in the air very well and can make plays up there.

I think by any account, Grayson is definitely athletic. He has at least three of the four factors that I look for: speed, agility, and air control (don't think he's there yet with strength).

Do people get offended when players aren't called "athletic"? They shouldn't. Redick wasn't the most athletic, but you'd be hard pressed to find a player with a better combination of shooting, intelligence, passing, and defense.

Wow - JJ was really good.

[sagegrouse]

I think to play successful basketball at a D1 level, you have to be athletic to some degree.

I ran into Larry Bird a while ago and he said to say, "Hi!" Also, Kyle Singler sends his regards.

sagegrouse

[pfrduke]

I carved out the recent discussion on athleticism that sprung up in the 2014 Recruiting Thread in an attempt to keep that remotely on topic. Please keep further discussions of that topic here.

[mike88]

Is balance part of athleticism? Kyrie is off the scales there.

How about vision?

Endurance? I think of Shane Battier talking about performing so well on the "Superman drill" that involves repeatedly taking a ball from the floor and dunking it - IIRC he could do 70-80 reps, far more than many of his more "athletic" peers

[dcar1985]

By any definition, that's athletic. Many cinder blocks. And what about that pass from Tyler from just over half court?

So, to try to get this thread back on track, how's the athleticism of our 2014 signee (Grayson) and the prospects? I've only seen videos (mostly highlights, which can be pretty misleading overall). All of them appear to be great basketball players, but none seems to be an athletic freak.

I'd throw Grayson in that athletic freak category, kid can fly. Supposedly there's video somewhere but Grayson tweeted maybe a month or two ago about just dunking from the free throw line OFF TWO FEET...even if he was a step or two inside the line that's crazy athletic!

[FerryFor50]

I ran into Larry Bird a while ago and he said to say, "Hi!" Also, Kyle Singler sends his regards.

sagegrouse

I'd argue that they both were athletic to a degree. Coordination, muscle memory, etc... those can be added to the list of "athletic" traits.

[JNort]

I judge athleticism like this: Speed, Quickness, Jumping, Body Control, Wow factor

On our current team I would put them as follows from least athletic to most athletic:
Below Average:
Josh
Marshall
Tyler

Average:
Amile
Cook

Above Average:
Matt
Alex
Jabari
Rasheed

Great Athletes:
Andre
Rodney
Semi

Elite:
???

I was tempted to put Semi in the Elite category but I need to see more of him against higher level competition as I am unsure about his lateral quickness and his ability to accelerate. Marshall, Alex, Rodney, Matt and Jabari could also be moved after I have seen them play more against tougher opponents but I feel where they are is right for now IMO.

[sagegrouse]

I'd argue that they both were athletic to a degree. Coordination, muscle memory, etc... those can be added to the list of "athletic" traits.

Oh, I agree. Bird had fantastic coordination and was very close to the best player in the league. But not everybody agrees with us.

Singler is very strong strong, courageous to a fault**, and his brain appears to be wired for basketball. He can't jump a lick, but he will play in the league for a decade or more.


sagegrouse
** Anyone remember when Singler got clotheslined by wake's goon, Chas MacFarlane, under the Duke basket in CIS. He landed flat on his face and shoulder but then bounded up immediately; I mean, he was on the floor a few tenths of second. As a result, MacFarlane didn't even get a technical foul, which he richly deserved. C'mon, Kyle! Act hurt (which he was)!

[FerryFor50]

Oh, I agree. Bird had fantastic coordination and was very close to the best player in the league. But not everybody agrees with us.

Singler is very strong strong, courageous to a fault**, and his brain appears to be wired for basketball. He can't jump a lick, but he will play in the league for a decade or more.


sagegrouse
** Anyone remember when Singler got clotheslined by wake's goon, Chas MacFarlane, under the Duke basket in CIS. He landed flat on his face and shoulder but then bounded up immediately; I mean, he was on the floor a few tenths of second. As a result, MacFarlane didn't even get a technical foul, which he richly deserved. C'mon, Kyle! Act hurt (which he was)!

I'm impressed he survived the Matt Howard illegal screen in the Butler game. More impressed that he bounced up and was able to celebrate!