MLB Postseason 2013

[mr. synellinden]

I don't know if that's the case, but they used to do it so it's not something they couldn't do again. And day/night double headers is fine. just thinking of ways to cut a week off the length of the season. Also, they don't need a full week almost for the all star game. take 3 days.. maybe 4 (i don't know how long it was this year, but it felt like a week). Rather than do it in the middle of the week, they could have the last games on a Thursday, Friday off, HR derby on Saturday, game on Sunday, Monday off and pick back up on Tuesday.

In past years the All-Star break has been only 3 days - Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, with most teams resuming play on Thursday. This year, responding to requests from players, I believe everyone got the extra day off and the season resumed on Friday. But it is only a 4 day break, not a week

[rasputin]

In past years the All-Star break has been only 3 days - Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, with most teams resuming play on Thursday. This year, responding to requests from players, I believe everyone got the extra day off and the season resumed on Friday. But it is only a 4 day break, not a week

I think the 4 day break is now part of the collective bargaining agreement.

[throatybeard]

I heard on the radio that the Cardinals will start the NLCS with Kelly, Wacha, and Wainwright at LA in G3. G4 is undecided but popular sentiment is in favor of Shelby Miller over Lance Lynn, whom the Pirates manhandled in the NLDS. Lynn has more experience coming out of the bullpen, and could eat some innings in a messy game. Westbrook, and obviously Carpenter and García are unavailable; I believe Tyler Lyons isn't on the playoff roster either.

The Dodgers will go Greinke, Kershaw, Ryu. Apparently Ryu has significant home/road splits.

The Dodgers scare the hell out of me.

[Troublemaker]

Grrr, so all the teams with the bigger payrolls advanced (making me 0-4 in picks, btw)

These will still be fun LCSes to watch, but I wish there were a couple of Cinderellas in there. Would've liked to have seen the Pirates and Athletics advance, at least.

[Turk]

With the Buccos' departure from the playoffs, we'll sign off with a Clint Hurdle quote. It was a response to Colorado fans lamenting the retirement of Todd Helton, but it applies to the Pirates after a great season.

I also respectfully submit that the quote applies to those Duke basketball seasons with deep NCAA tournament runs that came up short of a national championship. In fact, it may be useful for many of life's bittersweet moments:

"Don't be sad it's over. Be glad it happened."

[weezie]

Pretty nasty, evil-good Mr. Verlander. Reports of his decline greatly exxagerated.

[Jim3k]

From one of the few A's fans here, congrats to weezie's boys. Once again.

Verlander was absolutely masterful. And Miguel Cabrera's willpower overcame his injured body with that home run. Gotta admire that.

I am, however, sick of Buck Martinez's condescension. Much of his know-it-allness about the A's was wrong. He needs to discuss things with Ken Korach (A's main announcer) or Ray Fosse (A's color guy); both are far more knowledgeable. (Besides, Fosse was a better catcher than Martinez, despite being a wounded warrior for much of his career.) I will give Martinez a glibness award that Fosse could never win.

[throatybeard]

From one of the few A's fans here, congrats to weezie's boys. Once again.

Verlander was absolutely masterful. And Miguel Cabrera's willpower overcame his injured body with that home run. Gotta admire that.

I am, however, sick of Buck Martinez's condescension. Much of his know-it-allness about the A's was wrong. He needs to discuss things with Ken Korach (A's main announcer) or Ray Fosse (A's color guy); both are far more knowledgeable. (Besides, Fosse was a better catcher than Martinez, despite being a wounded warrior for much of his career.) I will give Martinez a glibness award that Fosse could never win.

I'm so sorry--I was rooting for y'all. I'm tired of seeing Beane's team lose in the 5th game of 5-game series. If my teams lost, I was 100% behind you.


PS to the others--the Cardinals are not Oakland or Tampa, but this metro has only about 2.8M people. It's not a large market. People support the team in a rather insane fashion, but there are usually only about four high-ticket guys at a time. So don't smear the Cardinals with this NYY/BOS/LAA/LAD brush. Hate the team all you want to, but the Cardinals are not a big market problem.

[weezie]

I am, however, sick of Buck Martinez's condescension. Much of his know-it-allness about....

ABOUT EVERYTHING! Buck is the worst bum in tv sports. He's just plain gratingly awful. Never shuts up, never misses a chance to bleat some inanity. How does that guy get to keep his job?


Thanks Jim, for your excellent fan sportsmanship. Any AL supporter is a friend of mine!

PS, throaty, are you trying to kid me into thinking the cardinal is not the juggernaut that I absolutely know it is?

[JasonEvans]

PS, throaty, are you trying to kid me into thinking the cardinal is not the juggernaut that I absolutely know it is?

The Cards payroll this year of $102 mil was the 14th highest in baseball. They are above average in terms of what they pay, but not a lot above. They basically can afford to pay for one more stud player than the Braves can, 2 more than the Pirates, and about 4 more than the As.

Here are the post-season teams, their ranks compared to every other MLB team in terms of total payroll, and their team payroll for this year. You can see how messed up baseball system is compared to every other sport.

1) Dodgers - $220 mil
4) Tigers - $148 mil
5) Red Sox - $140 mil
12) Reds - $109 mil
14) Cards - $102 mil
16) Braves - $89 mil
19) Pirates - $79 mil
23) Indians -$73 mil
27) A's - $60 mil
28) Rays - $57 mil

Can you win on a low salary? Of course! Can you lose when spending buttloads of money? Yup, for sure. Still, a system where one team can have a payroll 10x as high as another (Dodgers $220 mil, Astros $21 mil) is insane from a competitive standpoint. No other pro sports league operates anywhere similarly to this.

-Jason "think of each $10 mil in salary as one more near all-star level player" Evans

[Chicago 1995]

I'm so sorry--I was rooting for y'all. I'm tired of seeing Beane's team lose in the 5th game of 5-game series. If my teams lost, I was 100% behind you.


PS to the others--the Cardinals are not Oakland or Tampa, but this metro has only about 2.8M people. It's not a large market. People support the team in a rather insane fashion, but there are usually only about four high-ticket guys at a time. So don't smear the Cardinals with this NYY/BOS/LAA/LAD brush. Hate the team all you want to, but the Cardinals are not a big market problem.

The Cards, while not having a huge metro area, have a gigantic historic fan base from the old range of KMOX, where they used to be broadcast. To the extent the Cards have to rely on ticket sales, they've got a huge fan base to draw from that extends well outside the metro area. I grew up outside the Quad Cities on the Illinois side, for example, and many people from home make multiple trips to STL -- 5 hours away -- for Cards games every summer. They've got a fan base and a draw that's closer to a big market team than simply looking at STL would show. While they're not going to get a Dodgers like TV deal, the reach and draw of the Cards should get them a significant TV deal when their current deal is up in 2018. The best analogy I can think of here is Nebraska football, which has a fan base and a reach well beyond simply Nebraska, and why Nebraska was a valuable pick up for the Big 10.

The Cards aren't the Yankees or Dodgers, but the aren't exactly the little engine that could either. They've got plenty of advantages and they've used them to build a strong franchise with a ton of young, cheap talent. But they aren't hurting for $$ either.

[Matches]

Can you win on a low salary? Of course! Can you lose when spending buttloads of money? Yup, for sure. Still, a system where one team can have a payroll 10x as high as another (Dodgers $220 mil, Astros $21 mil) is insane from a competitive standpoint. No other pro sports league operates anywhere similarly to this.

-Jason "think of each $10 mil in salary as one more near all-star level player" Evans

The thing the salary discrepancy does is excuse mistakes. Teams with big payrolls have a much higher margin for error than teams with lower payrolls, who can be crippled by one or two bad contracts. The Braves, for example, have very little ability to improve their offense because they are stuck with Uggla and BJ Upton's albatross contracts. The Dodgers would just eat those deals and sink more $ into those positions.

And the Braves aren't even a small-market team. They're mid-market at worst. The Rays probably can't afford to keep David Price *during his arb years*, never mind free agency. Small-market teams can win in MLB, and having a large payroll is no guarantee of success, but it's undeniable that it's easier to build a winner with a large bankroll.

[weezie]

The Cards... aren't exactly the little engine that could.... They've got plenty of advantages and they've used them to build a strong franchise with a ton of young, cheap talent. But they aren't hurting for $$ either.

The cardinal has done far, far, far more than the yankee or the dodger on far less. It's a fan juggernaut, as Chicago 1995 clearly states.
A juggernaut that has hounded the Tiger my whole entire life.
The last thing MLB wants to see is another STL-DET WS.

[budwom]

ABOUT EVERYTHING! Buck is the worst bum in tv sports. He's just plain gratingly awful. Never shuts up, never misses a chance to bleat some inanity. How does that guy get to keep his job?


Thanks Jim, for your excellent fan sportsmanship. Any AL supporter is a friend of mine!

PS, throaty, are you trying to kid me into thinking the cardinal is not the juggernaut that I absolutely know it is?

As a Tiger fan I was thrilled with the win but share the opinion about Martinez...one thing he always babbles about (on and on and on) is that
above and beyond the speed of a pitch, "this guy gives his wrist that flick and the ball just takes off just before it hits the catcher's glove," implying that it has special late acceleration. Hey, I know all about pitch movement, placement, etc,
but he keeps wanting to tell us that pitchers can do something which actually produces late acceleration. I don't think I am buying that, no matter how often he
says it (ten times a game). Perhaps I have not articulated this well, but what he constantly asserts definitely sounds like jive.

[tommy]

From one of the few A's fans here, congrats to weezie's boys. Once again.

Verlander was absolutely masterful. And Miguel Cabrera's willpower overcame his injured body with that home run. Gotta admire that.

I am, however, sick of Buck Martinez's condescension. Much of his know-it-allness about the A's was wrong. He needs to discuss things with Ken Korach (A's main announcer) or Ray Fosse (A's color guy); both are far more knowledgeable. (Besides, Fosse was a better catcher than Martinez, despite being a wounded warrior for much of his career.) I will give Martinez a glibness award that Fosse could never win.

Jim - even though I'm a longtime Tigers fan and was glad to see last night's result, I was feeling you, man. I really like the A's too, and definitely respect how they do more with less (way less), and love the commitment and passion of their fans. But hopefully the A's and their fans can take solace in the fact that nobody was beating Verlander last night. He could've been facing an all-star team last night and they wouldn't have touched him. Just one of those nights.

[Olympic Fan]

The cardinal has done far, far, far more than the yankee or the dodger on far less.

What time frame are you talking about? This year -- yes, the Cards have done more than an injury decimated Yankee team on less. And over an extended period, the Cards have done what they've done with less than the Yankees.

But have they done "far, far, more than the yankee"? over an extended time?

Well, in this century, the Yankees have more division titles (10-7), more pennants (4-3) and the same number of world titles (2-2). The Yankees have been 14-10 in postseasons series ... the Cards are 12-7 headed into the playoffs with the Dodgers (less losses because they've missed the playoffs more often)

If we go back just five years -- the two teams are even in world championships (1-1) and pennants (1-1). The Yankees have three division titles, made the wild card once and missed the playoffs once. The Cards have two division titles, made the wild card twice and missed the playoffs once. The Yankees are 6-3 in postseason playoff series ... the Cards are 4-2 (at the moment).

You are going to have good years and bad years ... but in terms of sustained success, the Yankees -- who are certainly spending more -- can match up with the Cards. Even if St. Louis beats the Dodgers and either the Red Sox or Tigers, you might argue that they have a slight edge in recent years. But even if that happens, I don't see that as "far, far" better than the Yankees. And if they don't win it all, I'm not sure it's any better over the last five years -- and still not as good in this new century.

[throatybeard]

The Cards, while not having a huge metro area, have a gigantic historic fan base from the old range of KMOX, where they used to be broadcast. To the extent the Cards have to rely on ticket sales, they've got a huge fan base to draw from that extends well outside the metro area. I grew up outside the Quad Cities on the Illinois side, for example, and many people from home make multiple trips to STL -- 5 hours away -- for Cards games every summer. They've got a fan base and a draw that's closer to a big market team than simply looking at STL would show. While they're not going to get a Dodgers like TV deal, the reach and draw of the Cards should get them a significant TV deal when their current deal is up in 2018. The best analogy I can think of here is Nebraska football, which has a fan base and a reach well beyond simply Nebraska, and why Nebraska was a valuable pick up for the Big 10.

The Cards aren't the Yankees or Dodgers, but the aren't exactly the little engine that could either. They've got plenty of advantages and they've used them to build a strong franchise with a ton of young, cheap talent. But they aren't hurting for $$ either.

Nebraska is a decent analogy. The geographic draw is large, but you have to remember that not many people live in the rural areas out there. There's nothing particularly significant within a 250-mile radius of Saint Louis. Kansas City (250), Louisville (250), Memphis (290) and Chicago (300) are the closest cities larger than squat. I'm not sure how far the Quad Cities are but I think it's about 300 as well. I mean, you have a few modestly-sized towns like both Springfields, Columbia, stuff like that. You have a lot of Cubs territory in Illinois, and while Missouri has not quite 6M people, those have to be shared with the Royals. KMOX also doesn't have the range it did back in the day, and this is no longer the southwesternmost baseball city.

I'm assuming you're in Chicago, but since I've lived in Mississippi and here, I have a lot of trouble of impressing the fact on people back east that the center of the country is a lot less densely populated than the Atlanta to Boston corridor. The measuring stick I use to try to get this across is, say you drive three or four hundred miles: how hard do you have to think about buying gasoline? If you're driving from Atlanta to Boston on I-85 and I-95, the answer to that question is "precious little." The red light comes on and there's an exit with services in five miles, ten at the worst. It gets a little light between Durham and Petersburg, but that's about it.

You ever drive from Saint Louis to Nashville or Saint Louis to Louisville? (I don't recommend doing either of these things, but often have to. When Death comes for me, I'm going to attempt to broker a deal with him where I get a reprieve in the amount of my life that I've forfeited driving across Illinois). It's not eastern Montana, but you have to do some thinking about your cruising range. I-64 misses Evansville by fifteen miles to the north, so there is virtually nothing populous on it between Saint Louis and Louisville except Mount Vernon. Mount Vernon is an odious little crossroads of dilapidated interstates that IDOT has been grinding to a standstill for years. There are maybe fifteen or twenty thousand people in this town but it takes an hour to get through it. It gives a person flashback to trying to get through DC. If I'm in the truck, which doesn't get very good gas mileage, I always fill up in Mount Vernon no matter what, because the stretch from there to Louisville is a waste land. The highlight of the drive is a sex toy store in Nowheresville, IN.

One time, I forgot to buy gas leaving Jackson, MS. Thank God the Prius was smarter than I am. I forgot there's no gasoline on MS 25 between the northeast part of Jackson and Carthage, so about 40 miles. Fortunately, the car shuts down when you have perhaps five or ten miles worth of fuel left. It runs on the battery a little while and then conks out on you. If you wait a couple minutes, it'll let you cut the vehicle back on and use the reserve. And even then, I literally coasted into the gas station outside Carthage. I am not making this up.

The drive from here to Nashville is a little better, because you have Marion, Paducah, and Clarksville. There are actually a couple halfway decent places to eat in Paducah. They have the southeasternmost FM Cardinals affiliate, BTW. Nashville is more about the Braves. Once I cross the Ohio and get to Paducah, I am less compelled to put an icepick in my brain.

So yeah, the territory has a lot of area, but it still doesn't make this a large-market franchise. It's about as middling as it gets. 21st TV market. Outside of Jeff City, Columbia, and Springfield, hardly anyone lives in the middle of Missouri.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets1

[throatybeard]

The thing the salary discrepancy does is excuse mistakes. Teams with big payrolls have a much higher margin for error than teams with lower payrolls, who can be crippled by one or two bad contracts. The Braves, for example, have very little ability to improve their offense because they are stuck with Uggla and BJ Upton's albatross contracts. The Dodgers would just eat those deals and sink more $ into those positions.

And the Braves aren't even a small-market team. They're mid-market at worst.

They were able to act like a large-market team in the heyday of the deal with TBS. Not being on national TV has really damaged their brand.

[Chicago 1995]

Nebraska is a decent analogy. The geographic draw is large, but you have to remember that not many people live in the rural areas out there. There's nothing particularly significant within a 250-mile radius of Saint Louis. Kansas City (250), Louisville (250), Memphis (290) and Chicago (300) are the closest cities larger than squat. I'm not sure how far the Quad Cities are but I think it's about 300 as well. I mean, you have a few modestly-sized towns like both Springfields, Columbia, stuff like that. You have a lot of Cubs territory in Illinois, and while Missouri has not quite 6M people, those have to be shared with the Royals. KMOX also doesn't have the range it did back in the day, and this is no longer the southwesternmost baseball city.

I'm assuming you're in Chicago, but since I've lived in Mississippi and here, I have a lot of trouble of impressing the fact on people back east that the center of the country is a lot less densely populated than the Atlanta to Boston corridor. The measuring stick I use to try to get this across is, say you drive three or four hundred miles: how hard do you have to think about buying gasoline? If you're driving from Atlanta to Boston on I-85 and I-95, the answer to that question is "precious little." The red light comes on and there's an exit with services in five miles, ten at the worst. It gets a little light between Durham and Petersburg, but that's about it.

You ever drive from Saint Louis to Nashville or Saint Louis to Louisville? (I don't recommend doing either of these things, but often have to. When Death comes for me, I'm going to attempt to broker a deal with him where I get a reprieve in the amount of my life that I've forfeited driving across Illinois). It's not eastern Montana, but you have to do some thinking about your cruising range. I-64 misses Evansville by fifteen miles to the north, so there is virtually nothing populous on it between Saint Louis and Louisville except Mount Vernon. Mount Vernon is an odious little crossroads of dilapidated interstates that IDOT has been grinding to a standstill for years. There are maybe fifteen or twenty thousand people in this town but it takes an hour to get through it. It gives a person flashback to trying to get through DC. If I'm in the truck, which doesn't get very good gas mileage, I always fill up in Mount Vernon no matter what, because the stretch from there to Louisville is a waste land. The highlight of the drive is a sex toy store in Nowheresville, IN.

One time, I forgot to buy gas leaving Jackson, MS. Thank God the Prius was smarter than I am. I forgot there's no gasoline on MS 25 between the northeast part of Jackson and Carthage, so about 40 miles. Fortunately, the car shuts down when you have perhaps five or ten miles worth of fuel left. It runs on the battery a little while and then conks out on you. If you wait a couple minutes, it'll let you cut the vehicle back on and use the reserve. And even then, I literally coasted into the gas station outside Carthage. I am not making this up.

The drive from here to Nashville is a little better, because you have Marion, Paducah, and Clarksville. There are actually a couple halfway decent places to eat in Paducah. They have the southeasternmost FM Cardinals affiliate, BTW. Nashville is more about the Braves. Once I cross the Ohio and get to Paducah, I am less compelled to put an icepick in my brain.

So yeah, the territory has a lot of area, but it still doesn't make this a large-market franchise. It's about as middling as it gets. 21st TV market. Outside of Jeff City, Columbia, and Springfield, hardly anyone lives in the middle of Missouri.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets1

I grew up in a town of 750 in a county of about 40,000 people. I know the difference between Chicago suburbs, for example, and the rest of Illinois. FWIW, I've driven all over Illinois and Iowa. Driven west from Illinois several times. South more times than I count with family in Centralia, Marion and -- believe it or not -- Mt. Vernon.

Still, the Cards reach thanks to KMOX made them, in many ways, the only team in town for people in Arkansas, Lousiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Easter Kentucky, Central and Southern Illinois and Indiana, parts of Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska (even with the Royals). None of those states are terribly densely populated, but that's a massive area, and size alone drags more people in. Part of the reason Cards fans appear to travel so well is that many of the fans that flood Braves or Rockies or Cubs games aren't travelling. It's native Cards fans who grew up listening to KMOX or are second and third generation fans that were raised by those listening to KMOX. My only point is that the Cards have a draw that is much bigger than their market -- looking at the TV market and the Metro population doesn't do justice to the size of the Cards fan base and their draw. The aren't the Yankees or Dodgers -- but I'd suggest they are in the top 3rd in terms of "market size" when the totally of the fan base and the unique characteristics of the Cards are factored in.

[tommy]

Nebraska is a decent analogy. The geographic draw is large, but you have to remember that not many people live in the rural areas out there. There's nothing particularly significant within a 250-mile radius of Saint Louis. Kansas City (250), Louisville (250), Memphis (290) and Chicago (300) are the closest cities larger than squat. I'm not sure how far the Quad Cities are but I think it's about 300 as well. I mean, you have a few modestly-sized towns like both Springfields, Columbia, stuff like that. You have a lot of Cubs territory in Illinois, and while Missouri has not quite 6M people, those have to be shared with the Royals. KMOX also doesn't have the range it did back in the day, and this is no longer the southwesternmost baseball city.

I'm assuming you're in Chicago, but since I've lived in Mississippi and here, I have a lot of trouble of impressing the fact on people back east that the center of the country is a lot less densely populated than the Atlanta to Boston corridor. The measuring stick I use to try to get this across is, say you drive three or four hundred miles: how hard do you have to think about buying gasoline? If you're driving from Atlanta to Boston on I-85 and I-95, the answer to that question is "precious little." The red light comes on and there's an exit with services in five miles, ten at the worst. It gets a little light between Durham and Petersburg, but that's about it.

You ever drive from Saint Louis to Nashville or Saint Louis to Louisville? (I don't recommend doing either of these things, but often have to. When Death comes for me, I'm going to attempt to broker a deal with him where I get a reprieve in the amount of my life that I've forfeited driving across Illinois). It's not eastern Montana, but you have to do some thinking about your cruising range. I-64 misses Evansville by fifteen miles to the north, so there is virtually nothing populous on it between Saint Louis and Louisville except Mount Vernon. Mount Vernon is an odious little crossroads of dilapidated interstates that IDOT has been grinding to a standstill for years. There are maybe fifteen or twenty thousand people in this town but it takes an hour to get through it. It gives a person flashback to trying to get through DC. If I'm in the truck, which doesn't get very good gas mileage, I always fill up in Mount Vernon no matter what, because the stretch from there to Louisville is a waste land. The highlight of the drive is a sex toy store in Nowheresville, IN.

One time, I forgot to buy gas leaving Jackson, MS. Thank God the Prius was smarter than I am. I forgot there's no gasoline on MS 25 between the northeast part of Jackson and Carthage, so about 40 miles. Fortunately, the car shuts down when you have perhaps five or ten miles worth of fuel left. It runs on the battery a little while and then conks out on you. If you wait a couple minutes, it'll let you cut the vehicle back on and use the reserve. And even then, I literally coasted into the gas station outside Carthage. I am not making this up.

The drive from here to Nashville is a little better, because you have Marion, Paducah, and Clarksville. There are actually a couple halfway decent places to eat in Paducah. They have the southeasternmost FM Cardinals affiliate, BTW. Nashville is more about the Braves. Once I cross the Ohio and get to Paducah, I am less compelled to put an icepick in my brain.

So yeah, the territory has a lot of area, but it still doesn't make this a large-market franchise. It's about as middling as it gets. 21st TV market. Outside of Jeff City, Columbia, and Springfield, hardly anyone lives in the middle of Missouri.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets1

Thank you to all who entered the first annual DBR Stream of Consciousness Contest, but we have our winner. Congrats, Throaty!!