MLB Postseason 2013

[Olympic Fan]

Wow ... So it was terrible of me to say "I hate both teams" on the context of commenting on the controversial obstruction call in game three (and establishing that I didn't favor either team so I could make an impartial comment on the play)?

I've always hated apologies that go "if xxx offended anybody, I'm sorry."

Well, to me that seems to be the kind of apology that's called for in this case: If my saying I hate both teams (and that was not a gratuitous shot, just an explanation of why I could be impartial to comment about the controversial obstruction play in game three), upset anybody, then I'm sorry.

But I wonder if anybody who is upset has ever spent time on a message board before. Go back upthread yourself and find examples of even cruder insults:

For instance, throaty, there was your assault of the Dodgers:

Seldom, or never, in my sporting fan life, have I been so glad to see an opponent, whom I didn't give a rat's patoot about before the series, vanquished. I hope Yasiel Puig spends the rest of his life doing something excruciatingly boring in Havana. I'll go with inspecting elevators. It's not snotty enough on my part to be classist, but it's boring enough to crush a soul. That guy might be the biggest gluetus maximus I've seen in North American team sports since...

Then there was tommy's bitter post about the Yankees:

I've been thinking over the post-season how nice it's been to NOT have to watch the Yankees, listen to all the garbage about the Yankees, deal with the Yankee-centeredness of Yankee fans, etc. A very welcome respite. I for one wouldn't mind extending their absence for several more years.

Or TexHawk:

No offense, but as a self-admitted Cardinals hater ...

followed by:

It makes a few of my orifices bleed every time I talk too much about the Cardinals

Throaty, you give us a sermon about how terrible the hatred in this thread is, then you follow with the rudest and nastiest comments in the tread. You don't "hate" the Yankees, but:

I don't hate NYY fans at all. I'm saying that they have been the nastiest, meanest humans to me personally in my experience, outside of UNC/MD/LSU, and fortunately, I don't know that many MD people. My distrust of NYY people is entirely rational.

I like baseball. I like talking about baseball -- even about teams I don't like (I would have much rather seen the Braves, the Yankees, the Pirates or even the Rays in the world series). But I've never ripped another fan base.

I guess we just have different definitions of what's "rude and nasty"

[Chicago 1995]

Wow ... So it was terrible of me to say "I hate both teams" on the context of commenting on the controversial obstruction call in game three (and establishing that I didn't favor either team so I could make an impartial comment on the play)?

I've always hated apologies that go "if xxx offended anybody, I'm sorry."

Well, to me that seems to be the kind of apology that's called for in this case: If my saying I hate both teams (and that was not a gratuitous shot, just an explanation of why I could be impartial to comment about the controversial obstruction play in game three), upset anybody, then I'm sorry.

But I wonder if anybody who is upset has ever spent time on a message board before. Go back upthread yourself and find examples of even cruder insults:

For instance, throaty, there was your assault of the Dodgers:

Seldom, or never, in my sporting fan life, have I been so glad to see an opponent, whom I didn't give a rat's patoot about before the series, vanquished. I hope Yasiel Puig spends the rest of his life doing something excruciatingly boring in Havana. I'll go with inspecting elevators. It's not snotty enough on my part to be classist, but it's boring enough to crush a soul. That guy might be the biggest gluetus maximus I've seen in North American team sports since...

Then there was tommy's bitter post about the Yankees:

I've been thinking over the post-season how nice it's been to NOT have to watch the Yankees, listen to all the garbage about the Yankees, deal with the Yankee-centeredness of Yankee fans, etc. A very welcome respite. I for one wouldn't mind extending their absence for several more years.

Or TexHawk:

No offense, but as a self-admitted Cardinals hater ...

followed by:

It makes a few of my orifices bleed every time I talk too much about the Cardinals

Throaty, you give us a sermon about how terrible the hatred in this thread is, then you follow with the rudest and nastiest comments in the tread. You don't "hate" the Yankees, but:

I don't hate NYY fans at all. I'm saying that they have been the nastiest, meanest humans to me personally in my experience, outside of UNC/MD/LSU, and fortunately, I don't know that many MD people. My distrust of NYY people is entirely rational.

I like baseball. I like talking about baseball -- even about teams I don't like (I would have much rather seen the Braves, the Yankees, the Pirates or even the Rays in the world series). But I've never ripped another fan base.

I guess we just have different definitions of what's "rude and nasty"

Having participated in this thread, I went back to read everything I'd posted to make sure I'd not said something I didn't remember. I didn't.

I've been having trouble reconciling the throaty's Puig outburst and his offense at others in the thread. That was, IMO, the thing furthest out of line of all the posts in what was, by and large, a civil, good-natured thread.

Something is off here, and I don't get it. If using the word "hate" conversationally in what is a completely accepted use and context by society is enough to set you off throaty, you need to step away from sports. Your taking such offense at OF using "hate" in that way in the light of you yourself expressing contempt equivalent to hate for an opponent based on his not playing "the right way," is just weird, and not flattering to you.

As for the baseball, over a week later, this Sox fan still is walking on cloud nine. In a lot of ways, I can't believe the Sox survived the gauntlet of the Rays-Tigers-Cards pitching staffs. But patience and grinding at bats and wearing down opponents, along with Jon Lester and John Lackey meeting the challenge of facing Price, Sanchez, Scherzer, Verlander, Carpenter and Wacha got the job done for the Sox. World Champions. Doesn't seem real.

This one, for me, is more fun in one important way. My son was three months old in 2007. I pulled him from his crib and held him in front of the TV to watch Papelbon strike out the last batter of Game 4 so that someday, I could tell him that he'd see the Sox win a World Championship. Even with 2 in 4 years, I wasn't sure he'd get that chance again. Takes a long time for those old wounds to heal. This year? My son and daughter watched the World Series with me. While they didn't stay up with me, they've watched the end of Game 6 and the post game celebration. Cold as its been in Chicagoland, my son and I have worked on his swing every day since, with me pitching to him. Every time he hits the ball, he sprints around the "bases" in our yard yelling "Big Papi!! Home Run!! Red Sox win!!"

As as Dad, that's a feeling about as far from hate as possible.

[Duke4Ever32]

Something is off here, and I don't get it. If using the word "hate" conversationally in what is a completely accepted use and context by society is enough to set you off throaty, you need to step away from sports. Your taking such offense at OF using "hate" in that way in the light of you yourself expressing contempt equivalent to hate for an opponent based on his not playing "the right way," is just weird, and not flattering to you.

Totally agree with this. Throaty has my vote for overreaction of the year, especially given his comments in this thread AND multiple indications that his opinion of someone has changed forever based on them saying they hate a team. This is an example of pot calling the kettle black that's just beyond absurd. I'm a Red Sox fan and took no offense whatsoever to OF saying he hated both teams. Throaty? Not so much.

[gus]

This one, for me, is more fun in one important way. My son was three months old in 2007. I pulled him from his crib and held him in front of the TV to watch Papelbon strike out the last batter of Game 4 so that someday, I could tell him that he'd see the Sox win a World Championship. Even with 2 in 4 years, I wasn't sure he'd get that chance again. Takes a long time for those old wounds to heal. This year? My son and daughter watched the World Series with me. While they didn't stay up with me, they've watched the end of Game 6 and the post game celebration. Cold as its been in Chicagoland, my son and I have worked on his swing every day since, with me pitching to him. Every time he hits the ball, he sprints around the "bases" in our yard yelling "Big Papi!! Home Run!! Red Sox win!!"

As as Dad, that's a feeling about as far from hate as possible.

One of the memories I have of my father is going to Yankees games with him as a kid. As immigrants from a country with no baseball at all, I'm not sure why we chose the Yankees over the Mets. My guess is the Yankees tickets were cheaper at the time (this was in the doldrums of the 80s), or maybe his friends were Yankees fans. I dunno, but he's not around for me to ask anymore so I cherish those games regardless. I've always been a Yankees fan since.

Throaty mentions being abused in Durham as a fan of the Braves, when the Bulls were part of the Braves farm system, when the Braves were at the pinnacle and the Yankee resurgence hadn't yet happened. That just doesn't make sense to me. I don't get the persecution complex, nor the bile he lobs at Yankees fans. But I'll just reiterate that my experience with Yankees fans is quite a bit different than what Throaty is describing, both with my interaction with other Yankees fans, and with my interactions with fans of other teams.

[jay]

You evidently didn't go to Duke in the mid-1990s as a Braves fan.

I went to middle school in North Carolina in the mid-90s as a Duke fan (who proudly wore his Blue Devils cap after painful losses), and I'm not emotionally scarred like you seem to be. I've had some pretty awful interactions with Carolina fans over the years, but I don't lump them all in the same group and have some pretty nice interactions with a lot of UNC fans. We rib each other back and forth, with the understanding that it's all fun and games and that we're friends.

It's starting to become pretty evident from your statements in this thread that it's actually not your friends. It's you.

[tbyers11]

Throaty mentions being abused in Durham as a fan of the Braves, when the Bulls were part of the Braves farm system, when the Braves were at the pinnacle and the Yankee resurgence hadn't yet happened. That just doesn't make sense to me. I don't get the persecution complex, nor the bile he lobs at Yankees fans. But I'll just reiterate that my experience with Yankees fans is quite a bit different than what Throaty is describing, both with my interaction with other Yankees fans, and with my interactions with fans of other teams.

As someone who was at Duke at roughly the same time as Throaty (I graduated a year after he and Wojo did) we were at Duke during the middle of the Yankee resurgence in the late 90s. Yankees beat the Braves head-to-head in the 96 and 99 WS and also won the 98 WS. In my experience, the large contingent of New York/New Jersey students on the Duke campus tended to be more vocal about their sports fandom than student from other parts of the country (The Red Sox still sucked ).

I am also a Braves fan and encountered a lot of "bandwagon" fans who couldn't name more than 3 Yankees a year ago now wearing Yankee caps everywhere. These fans and the Steinbrennerian Yankees penchant for vastly outspending the majority of the other MLB teams has led me to be a Yankee "disliker" as well. Several of my best friends from Duke are Yankees fans from NY/NJ so I don't automatically dislike all Yankees fans but I can definitely feel where Throaty is coming from.

As for the Durham Bulls connection with Braves that meant very little to any Duke student. Maybe if there were born in Durham they might like the Braves because of that connection but that isn't a very big contingent on the Duke campus. Besides, when the Bulls built their new stadium in 1998 they became a AAA affiliate with the Rays (as they still are) and any remaining Braves connection was cut.

[rasputin]

The Handy Pocket Reference documents what we are, not our better selves.

Even back then, I was always embarrassed when the GTHCGTH chant emerged in a game completely unrelated to Carolina. I do have a 9F shirt, but I never wore it to anything but a UNC game. Even when I was 19, I was arguing that it was really low class to wear it to, say, the Hillsborough Rd Kroger. I remember once in the 1995-96 season, we played like hell against South Carolina State, though we beat them. The collective response was to chant 9F. That was just a sad display.

I'm also more mature than I was when I was 19. I don't scream at other people, telling them to go to hell. I don't endorse the practice. And I don't have any respect for people who hate other people because of sports. None. Unless you're, like in late adolescence. In that case, I'm hoping you'll grow out of it. When I was 19, I drove too fast. I don't do that anymore, either. I believe growth is possible.

If OF wants to raise the heat in a thread where there are fans of like a dozen baseball teams to hatred, that's his right. I reserve the right to lose any respect I ever had for him.

If you hate any other human being because of sports...examine yourself and your life. Period, paragraph.

A couple of points. First, I was at the NCAA championship game in 2001. Shortly before the trophy ceremony the Duke faithful started doing the GTHC chant. Coach K quickly put a stop to it.

Secondly, I we are using the word "hate" in different contexts. Haters gonna hate, etc., means one thing. Truly hating someone is another thing entirely. I am a fan of two baseball teams for which many people express "hate": the Yankees (the team of my youth, living in Connecticut) and the Cardinals (transplanted St. Louisan). I "hate" the Red Sox. But they have some very classy people and players and have always been a class organization. A couple of days ago, the Red Sox had a full-page ad in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch thanking us for being welcoming and nice to them when they were in town. Class.

[Duvall]

In throaty's defense, I think he may be referring at least in part to several posts that I wrote and subsequently deleted. As a mod he can still see them on the thread, but the rest of us can't.

[Olympic Fan]

In throaty's defense, I think he may be referring at least in part to several posts that I wrote and subsequently deleted. As a mod he can still see them on the thread, but the rest of us can't.

And on re-direct, may I point out that throaty SPECIFICALLY called me out -- saying I was rude and nasty. Not you, Duvall. I'm pretty sure I never had a post deleted in this threat. Everything thing I wrote is still out there ...

[jay]

"Oho!" said the pot to the kettle;
"You are dirty and ugly and black!
Sure no one would think you were metal,
Except when you're given a crack."
"Not so! not so!" kettle said to the pot;
"'Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean – without blemish or blot –
That your blackness is mirrored in me."

[throatybeard]

Throaty, you give us a sermon about how terrible the hatred in this thread is, then you follow with the rudest and nastiest comments in the tread. You don't "hate" the Yankees, but:

I don't hate NYY fans at all. I'm saying that they have been the nastiest, meanest humans to me personally in my experience, outside of UNC/MD/LSU, and fortunately, I don't know that many MD people. My distrust of NYY people is entirely rational.

This isn't a rude or hateful comment at all. It's a factual report of how awful NYY fans acted at Duke in the 1990s. The only people I've ever met, in my life who were as verbally abusive to me as NYY fans in the 1990s are associated with the three schools I mentioned. Insofar as I'm able, I turn the other cheek to these people. Once in a while, I call them out on their behavior. If your fanbase (NYY fans) is intensely invested in abusing other people and being nasty, then you can't be surprised when other people call you on that behavior. And it isn't hateful to call people out when they're nasty.

Unfortunately, we have a culture in which people think their right to be verbally abusive to other people trumps every other consideration. I think this might be changing one tiny little bit, this past week. I expected the full force of ESPN to come in behind Incognito. So far, it's mostly hasn't. That has amazed me.

Anyway, I've learned a lot about certain posters in this thread. And I'll keep all of that in mind in 2014.

[Duke4Ever32]

Anyway, I've learned a lot about certain posters in this thread. And I'll keep all of that in mind in 2014.

Ditto for me.

[weezie]

No surprise but still, congratulations to a fine pitcher and person, Max Scherzer.
It'll be tough to see him in a uni that doesn't sport the beautiful olde english D...

[weezie]

So, this would make three years in a row that Detroit has owned the MVP.
Sigh, if only Migs had been healthy during the playoffs...