Football Attendance Frustration Challenge

[ChillinDuke]

Yes, if only Duke were to post a 5-2 record at home with a thrilling upset of a hated rival. *Then* I bet the fans would turn out the next year.

I assume this post is largely tongue in cheek.

The point remains we went 5-2 at home last year, I'm with you. But the competition was not especially impressive in arguably 4 of the 5 wins. And the 5th was the UNC game, and didn't we sell that one out anyway?

So many are clamoring for increased turnout at games, and I want that to happen just like the next Duke fan. But if the Duke men's basketball team hadn't been good enough to reach the NCAA Tournament in 20 years, would you blame the fanbase for not selling out even Cameron Indoor?

We have improved on the football field, no doubt. But there is clearly more progress that must be made before things like football sellouts will be the rule rather than the exception. For now, we should be clamoring harder for wins against teams the likes of Georgia Tech and not for our stadium selling out. That's how I see it.

- Chillin

[cf-62]

Post 2: Duke Football Game Day / Event Strengths

Understand that I am not going to analyze Duke Football (i.e. David Cutcliffe’s program), though I guarantee you he has one of these (or many many of these).
I’m only going to look at the Strengths of a Duke Football Game and Season as an event that people purchase and attend. I will follow the same philosophy with the weaknesses analysis:

Strengths of Duke Football Game Day / Season
* Ticket Cost (game by game and season ticket) -- I am comparing with competing LIKE events including NC State or UNC football, Hurricanes Hockey, Panthers Football, ACC Basketball, Hornets. The Family Four Pack is a great deal, either for game day or the season. And the mini-pack season ticket makes the cost for reserved seats ~$40 / ticket.
* Beautiful Stadium environment (Stadium surrounded by pines, walk in at the top of sunken stadium, Weather most of the year is awesome – a little hot in Sept, a little cold in Nov)
* Duke Campus – ‘nuff said
* Easy to get in and out driving -- again, comparing to other major sporting events, especially the 4 major comparable events mentioned above. This is NOT Parking, but rather the easy access to get into the area, and the ease / time it takes to leave the game.
* The Duke Brand – thanks to the school, the athletics department, and ESPN, the Duke brand is powerful, a polarizing force no doubt, but a strong brand
* The Cutcliffe Brand – to quote Lou Holtz – “There [Cutcliffe] is a FOOTBALL COACH!” The fact that his summers are spent with 2 of the glamour NFL quarterbacks, and his reputation as a quarterback savant make Duke football a potentially interesting team to watch.
* Other Duke sports – Having a powerful Olympic Sport program allows all kinds of cross-selling and branding
* Long term Duke Football History – the ignored elephant in the room. Before the BCS blew up the traditional bowl structure, I had a favorite college football trivia question I would use to stump people. Which 4 schools have played in all 4 major bowls (Cotton, Orange, Sugar, Rose)? Notre Dame, Alabama, Duke, and Army. Now the answer is 7 teams with Texas, Oklahoma, and Miami adding the Cotton and Rose (BCS Championship game) to their resumes.
Next up – what are the weaknesses facing Duke game day…

I'd be interested in hearing what others thing strengths of Duke Football GAMES as an event / consumer product are. Any additional thoughts?

[Reisen]

I’m sorry to take up so much time with these posts, but it really is a fun question for a marketing geek.

Haha, I haven't read all these yet (I will!), but I'm loving the SWOT analysis. Must be a Fuqua grad?

[CameronBornAndBred]

I agree with this. Maybe the first "upgrade" to WW should be "real" seats with backs and arm-rests. Hard plastic, fiberglass, whatever that will withstand the weather. All in "Duke blue". Maybe lose some seating capacity, but at this point, a "full" house is better than a "sparse" house. Lets get there first, before "expanding".

Quick note...I loathe those seats! Have you ever sat in Kenan? Not comfortable! Especially for someone tall like I am. I love being able to spread out a bit in Wade, not confined to exactly where our assigned seat is.

[Dukehky]

I don't see a fix here. Lots of the other posts are completely right. Duke's student body is small, it's unreasonable to think that more students are going to go to football than basketball games, ever. Duke's alumni base is increasingly moving North, they come back to basketball games like twice a year, they're not coming down for Duke football, even if Duke was awesome, the ACC is bad and would come down for like 1 game. The Triangle offers two "better" football experiences in UNC and State. Even if the product isn't as good sometimes, the atmosphere is more conducive to college football: tailgating, student bodies who care about it.

All of this COULD change with a ton of wins, but it will take a lot of time. I'd also like for WW to add backs to the seats, but that isn't going to improve the attendance that much. How many people are going to say, "Oh, hey!!! Wade added backs to the bleachers, now I'll go to the game." Not that many. Duke is just at an inherent disadvantage when it comes to filling up the football stadium. It's too big anyways and it would be a waste of money to expand it. Use the money planned on expanding it to making it nice. The only time I've seen it filled was for the Rolling Stones in 05.

I love going to Duke football games, but I like it because it reminds me of high school games. I know some of the kids on the team and winning would be a real treat. The only remedy is lots of wins. Nothing other than that is going to fill that stadium up.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Our conversation focuses on low football attendance at Duke, but the big picture is that attendance is slipping in across the conference and the nation. There is more at play than our team's record, the condition of the stadium or the game day experience. The trends underway suggest that attending in person is not as attractive as it used to be for many people. Technology and changes in society are making viewing in other environments attractive.

[cowetarock]

I'd be interested in hearing what others thing strengths of Duke Football GAMES as an event / consumer product are. Any additional thoughts?

When did West Point play in the Rose Bowl Game? They played Navy there in a regular season game,but other than 1918 I can find no record of any US Army team playing in the post season bowl game.The 1918 team was from Fort Lewis.

[cf-62]

When did West Point play in the Rose Bowl Game? They played Navy there in a regular season game,but other than 1918 I can find no record of any US Army team playing in the post season bowl game.The 1918 team was from Fort Lewis.

The 1918 game is considered to be the 4th Rose Bowl, even though it was called something different. I originally got the question from an original Genus Edition Trivial Pursuit card (which I have in a place of honor, obviously).

Here's the Wikipedia link (and as we know, Wikipedia is NEVER wrong) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_Rose_Bowl

[cf-62]

The 1918 game is considered to be the 4th Rose Bowl, even though it was called something different. I originally got the question from an original Genus Edition Trivial Pursuit card (which I have in a place of honor, obviously).

Here's the Wikipedia link (and as we know, Wikipedia is NEVER wrong) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_Rose_Bowl

Something of even more interest:

Until the BCS rolled along, having played in al 4 major bowls was an extremely rare honor. It shows just how powerful Duke football was from 1930 - 1966. Royalty - Notre Dame, Alabama, Duke.

Anyway, even with the Cotton Bowl having been diminished until it became the JJ Bowl, there are only 7 teams that can claim the quartet of Cotton, Sugar, Orange, and Rose. In contrast, even though it's been around much shorter period of time, when the Fiesta Bowl is substituted for the cotton bowl, 10 teams have played in the Fiesta, Orange, Sugar, and Rose.

Ours is a much more exclusive club.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I'd be interested in hearing what others thing strengths of Duke Football GAMES as an event / consumer product are. Any additional thoughts?

The game day family experience. Duke does a great job of making K-Ville an enjoyable place to be before the game, with music, face painting, fun things for the kids to do, sponsor tents to check out, etc. There is plenty to keep people entertained for a couple hours outside before the action inside gets under way.

[TruBlu]

Quick note...I loathe those seats! Have you ever sat in Kenan? Not comfortable! Especially for someone tall like I am. I love being able to spread out a bit in Wade, not confined to exactly where our assigned seat is.

I hope that you are only experiencing those Kenan seats once every other year.

[J.Blink]

Quick note...I loathe those seats! Have you ever sat in Kenan? Not comfortable! Especially for someone tall like I am. I love being able to spread out a bit in Wade, not confined to exactly where our assigned seat is.

I second that. I've only been to Kenan once and I sat in the Duke section (2004--it was a good game). The seats were incredibly uncomfortable. I'm not that tall--about 6'2--but I almost had to sit sideways for my knees to fit in the seat, thanks to the seatback jutting out in front of me. The only other college football stadiums I've been in are UVA, Wake, and State, and I don't remember being uncomfortable in any of them.

Even in WW (section 28) if somebody has seats with backs in front of me, it's tight for my knees. Fortunately (?) there are often empty seats in front of me.

I would be all for new seats if they were more comfortable and would have enough space, but I wouldn't count on that!

[DU82]

I second that. I've only been to Kenan once and I sat in the Duke section (2004--it was a good game). The seats were incredibly uncomfortable. I'm not that tall--about 6'2--but I almost had to sit sideways for my knees to fit in the seat, thanks to the seatback jutting out in front of me. The only other college football stadiums I've been in are UVA, Wake, and State, and I don't remember being uncomfortable in any of them.

Even in WW (section 28) if somebody has seats with backs in front of me, it's tight for my knees. Fortunately (?) there are often empty seats in front of me.

I would be all for new seats if they were more comfortable and would have enough space, but I wouldn't count on that!

Kenan is terrible with the seat backs squeezed in. It seems that they just had benches, same as Duke Stadium, and installed these later. Wake was much better, although I don't remember if they have bench backs. I haven't been to UVa in about 30 years, so I haven't seen the stadium since the massive upgrades. I'll report back after October 19th and our victory there.

Notre Dame doesn't seem to be doing poorly because of bench seating. Nor the upper level of Rupp Arena (although I believe that's scheduled to be changed soon.)

[Dopeshop]

The thread was intended mostly for venting ,but there are some thoughtful and well reasoned comments .


Who in the Duke hierarchy should take a look and how to get the posts to them ?

[sagegrouse]

The thread was intended mostly for venting ,but there are some thoughtful and well reasoned comments .


Who in the Duke hierarchy should take a look and how to get the posts to them ?

No need for special communications. Given the power and reach of DBR, I am confident that both AD Kevin White and President Richard Brodhead have minions monitoring the posts in near real time.

sage

[cowetarock]

Something of even more interest:

Until the BCS rolled along, having played in al 4 major bowls was an extremely rare honor. It shows just how powerful Duke football was from 1930 - 1966. Royalty - Notre Dame, Alabama, Duke.

Anyway, even with the Cotton Bowl having been diminished until it became the JJ Bowl, there are only 7 teams that can claim the quartet of Cotton, Sugar, Orange, and Rose. In contrast, even though it's been around much shorter period of time, when the Fiesta Bowl is substituted for the cotton bowl, 10 teams have played in the Fiesta, Orange, Sugar, and Rose.

Ours is a much more exclusive club.

I do not question the 1918 game being a Rose Bowl. I question giving credit to the US Military Academy at West Point for participating in the game which means that Army never played in the Rose Bowl. As I am fairly sure Fort Lewis never played in the Orange,Sugar and Cotton Bowls,do you agree the correct answer is six?

[DU82]

Post 2: Duke Football Game Day / Event Strengths

* Long term Duke Football History – the ignored elephant in the room. Before the BCS blew up the traditional bowl structure, I had a favorite college football trivia question I would use to stump people. Which 4 schools have played in all 4 major bowls (Cotton, Orange, Sugar, Rose)? Notre Dame, Alabama, Duke, and Army. Now the answer is 7 teams with Texas, Oklahoma, and Miami adding the Cotton and Rose (BCS Championship game) to their resumes.
/B]

So, what did Georgia Tech do to miss your list?

I looked this up back a few years, and there were four schools that WON all four major bowls (including the Ramblin' Wreck), and I think eight that were in all four, including Duke. This prior to the BCS error, I mean era.

I didn't have time to look at the full answers, just that GT was the first to win all four.

[Bob Green]

The games were generally entertaining, and IIRC there was one game that ended with a Duke victory (Clemson?) of 3-2.

Sorry, Duke lost. It was Clemson 3, Duke 2 on 10/16/1965:

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Duke.htm

[cf-62]

So, what did Georgia Tech do to miss your list?

I looked this up back a few years, and there were four schools that WON all four major bowls (including the Ramblin' Wreck), and I think eight that were in all four, including Duke. This prior to the BCS error, I mean era.

I didn't have time to look at the full answers, just that GT was the first to win all four.

Georgia Tech should definitely have been on the Trivial Pursuit card. A bad omission to be sure. Similarly, it's obvious that they saw Army-Navy in the 1918 Rose Bowl and didn't research it enough to determine that Army wasn't West Point.

I left them out of the modified list, because I compared the 10 teams that have played all BCS bowls against the Cotton Bowl SINCE 1984.

[fishindevil]

I am the target market the university seems to miss. My family bleeds dark blue even though none of us ever went to Duke. Growing up as a kid in Durham, I could not wait for fall Saturday afternoons at Wally Wade. I sat through the rain when Miami whipped us and still get chills remembering the great Clemson victory in 89. Duke used to cater to the Durham crowd and eventually the almighty dollar took over. As evidence of this thread and many others, you are not going to get the alumni support because that fan base is too small. There is a huge opportunity though to go after the local triangle market. How?

Parking / tailgating - I know, I know, been discussed many times but the university does not understand it is more then just having a short walk. I remember the public lots on Wannamaker and how much fun they were to walk through when the Clemson's of the world came to town. Me and a number of my friends would LOVE to come out on a lovely fall Saturday and enjoy a little community. To build our community though would require each of us to throw down on an Iron Dukes membership and now we are talking about an extra $200 plus a year and no chance of basketball tickets unless you really want to shell out some coin. Open the Wannamker and 751 lots back to the public and quit making us park across campus and walk through empty Iron Duke lots!! One thing I enjoy about State games are the number of families that tailgate together every year. Sorry, they are not showing up at Carter Findley for face painting and bouncy houses. The difference in Raleigh is there is a large alumni base to draw from and the families tailgating together are usually connected somehow to the university be it a father, mother etc that went to school at State. But they always come out and park together year after year. That is not going to happen at Duke. Duke does have the rare opportunity though of building a similar community made up of neighbors, coworkers, church members etc that WILL come out year after year and build our own community. Encourage the local community to come out for the whole experience. I don't care about reduced or free tickets if I cannot get the entire game day experience. It's not about free tickets, I promise. Of course winning brings them out but lets be real, football in the South is about the beautiful weather and the social event. We can all commit our sins together on Saturday and repent together in the pews on Sundays. The local crowd wants this bad!! Great food and fellowship covers up a lot of bad football. And by great food and fellowship, I mean cooking our own food and not shuffling through a tent eating ARA catering.

I am now 2 hours away and barely make it to Wade once a year. It just isn't fun and worth it anymore. Give me 5-7 fall Saturdays where I can gather with family and friends from across the state and I'm in. 5-7 Saturdays where that may be the only time all year I see these people and you got me. Walking the parking lots, meeting new people and counting the days when we will all be together again. There is a small group of loyals doing this now in the Iron Duke lots and that number would grow exponentially if there was somewhere for us common folk to go. A lot of us grew up at that stadium and would love to bring our families around to do the same. Think I'm wrong? Look around the stadium next time and see how much of the crowd is made up of people that got a great college education from one of the state supported institutions.

I am the target market and I am the one university continues to push away.

I got more suggestions but I tend to ramble so let's start with this.