Superman vs. Batman and DC's future

[Troublemaker]

The casting of Cranston as Luthor is very, very on-the-nose given Cranston's current role. I mean, a balding, evil, scheming, scientist / rich guy? As a fan of BB/Cranston, I love it now, I will probably love it in 2015, but I hope I still love it 3 or 4 films in. Oh heck, I probably will. Might never get enough Walt-to-Heisenberg transformations; I assume we'll see a lot of that as Luthor will probably have a good guy public persona and be evil behind-the-scenes.

The last 30 minutes of Man of Steel, which very few people were a fan of due to all the Transformers-esque destruction, will possibly be the impetus for a lot of the plot in the 2015 movie. Humans are going to be distrustful of Superman. Luthor will probably rise to prominence leading an anti-Superman sentiment. Batman will probably try to take down Superman before learning that they're on the same side. Something like that.

Fake teaser image that I saw for the Cranston Luthor: http://31.media.tumblr.com/4a2ae05b5...852wo1_500.jpg

[Wander]

It's a sequel to Man of Steel. I assume Justice League will be one as well.

OK. Does Man of Steel take place in the same universe as Batman Begins?

[brevity]

The casting of Cranston as Luthor is very, very on-the-nose given Cranston's current role.

Which is the problem with this obvious rumor; it shows a lack of imagination. Also, actors who shave their heads for a role, inevitably, get tired of shaving their heads for a role. I don't see Bryan Cranston wanting to keep the razor nearby for the next 10 years.

There were other amateur casting directors who saw Cranston as more of a Jim Gordon type, if the need for Gordon presents itself. That's already on Cranston's resume as well -- decent authority figure opposite Ben Affleck -- but I much preferred their line of thought.

OK. Does Man of Steel take place in the same universe as Batman Begins?

I doubt it. The Dark Knight trilogy was so centered on morality and realism that it almost purposefully excluded extraterrestrial power. I'll admit that the thing on the plane with Bane bordered on the ridiculous, though.

[Troublemaker]

OK. Does Man of Steel take place in the same universe as Batman Begins?

They are not in the same universe. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/170...e-league.jhtml

Quote from Goyer in that link:

"The 'Dark Knight' films do not exist in the same universe. Zack [Snyder] has gone on record. The fact that we have Wayne Industries on the satellite, Bruce Wayne exists in this universe," Goyer said. "Lex Luthor exists in this universe. Other metahumans do exist in this universe, so the hope is, depending on how the film does, that we'll be able to roll into some other films."

I would say there's a "spiritual successor" thing going on, though, with this Batman being older and not just starting out.

[Edouble]

I've never had a problem with Ben Affleck as an actor. I think he's pretty good actually. The first films that I saw him in, Dazed and Confused, Mallrats, and Shakespeare in Love, left me with the impression that he was versatile and very funny. I've always felt that "funny" is harder to do than "dramatic", anyway.

I did see Sum of all Fears, and Daredevil, and those movies were just awful. I didn't really blame him for it though.

I was so disappointed by Man of Steel, that I don't really have much interest in another movie in that series, anyway.

[brevity]

I was so disappointed by Man of Steel, that I don't really have much interest in another movie in that series, anyway.

I find this interesting. See, I was also "so disappointed" by Man of Steel, but every problem I had was specific to that movie's plot alone, so I could be easily convinced to see future films in the series.

Here's what I mean. Superman Returns, the 2006 film, was doomed in its setup, from the start. We could accept Brandon Routh at first for reminding us of Christopher Reeve, but we would ultimately reject him as a pale substitute. And he fares the best of the three principals. Kevin Spacey gives us a fun equivalent of what Gene Hackman did, but he was confined to a 1980s definition of Lex Luthor, obsessed with land and seemingly ignorant that anyone seeking business power might want to dabble in technology. Kate Bosworth was a staggeringly bad choice to play Lois Lane, a lightweight in every sense of the word. Her performance only serves to illustrate that the filmmakers thought that Lois Lane was not important. After all that, how do you make a sequel? Recast Lois, redefine Lex, and hope that the audience doesn't mind the continued adventures of Reeve-lite?

Man of Steel has the opposite problem: it has a terrific setup, but is doomed in its execution. I liked Clark's background story, and the idea that he shaped the superhero before he built the mild-mannered reporter persona. It gave him a world-weariness that helped minimize the glaring age difference between Henry Cavill and Amy Adams. As for her, she doesn't resemble Lois Lane in my mind, but this Lois was at least a believable, forceful presence. I wouldn't mind seeing them continue their adventures in a better story without dumb ideas, like a Zod ruled by genetic imperative rather than villainous choice, or a Jonathan Kent that sacrificed himself for completely avoidable reasons. Just add a Lex Luthor, apparently a Bruce Wayne, give Perry White more to do, and maybe provide a reason why Jimmy Olsen is a woman.

[davekay1971]

Man of Steel has the opposite problem: it has a terrific setup, but is doomed in its execution. I liked Clark's background story, and the idea that he shaped the superhero before he built the mild-mannered reporter persona. It gave him a world-weariness that helped minimize the glaring age difference between Henry Cavill and Amy Adams. As for her, she doesn't resemble Lois Lane in my mind, but this Lois was at least a believable, forceful presence. I wouldn't mind seeing them continue their adventures in a better story without dumb ideas, like a Zod ruled by genetic imperative rather than villainous choice, or a Jonathan Kent that sacrificed himself for completely avoidable reasons. Just add a Lex Luthor, apparently a Bruce Wayne, give Perry White more to do, and maybe provide a reason why Jimmy Olsen is a woman.

You know, I never really thought of the age difference between Adams and Cavill. She's about 9 years older than he. Her character, in the movie, also had alot more accomplished than his...she was apparently already a well regarded, accomplished reporter, by the time he was figuring out that he could fly.

I like that. We're used to seeing glaring age differences in the other direction - Sean Connery in a romantic thriller with Catherine Zeta Jones, for example, and we're expected to ignore that our lead actors are frequently 20+ years older than their romantic interests. Now we have an older (although, since her birth year still numbers higher than mine, not old) woman with some real substance in a romantic relationship with the young hero who has yet to really establish himself.

I'm not sure whether that age difference will be referenced in the actual movies in any way, but it could be a huge benefit to the Batman/Superman movie and eventual Justice League pic. If Bruce Wayne is written to be older, more experienced, and a potential mentor to Superman, then his relationship with Lois, with regards to their roles as mentors/advisors to the most powerful being on Earth, could be incredibly interesting.

[brevity]

You know, I never really thought of the age difference between Adams and Cavill. She's about 9 years older than he. Her character, in the movie, also had alot more accomplished than his...she was apparently already a well regarded, accomplished reporter, by the time he was figuring out that he could fly.

I like that. We're used to seeing glaring age differences in the other direction - Sean Connery in a romantic thriller with Catherine Zeta Jones, for example, and we're expected to ignore that our lead actors are frequently 20+ years older than their romantic interests. Now we have an older (although, since her birth year still numbers higher than mine, not old) woman with some real substance in a romantic relationship with the young hero who has yet to really establish himself.

I'm not sure whether that age difference will be referenced in the actual movies in any way, but it could be a huge benefit to the Batman/Superman movie and eventual Justice League pic. If Bruce Wayne is written to be older, more experienced, and a potential mentor to Superman, then his relationship with Lois, with regards to their roles as mentors/advisors to the most powerful being on Earth, could be incredibly interesting.

All good points. I don't know if the Superman canon says anything specific about the age difference, but I have been programmed by the Superman culture to believe Lois is slightly older than Clark, but that the difference is more pronounced by her Daily Planet seniority, and also by comparing her city years versus his country years.

As for Adams and Cavill, I could be swayed into believing that those 9 years are an advantage. When she was cast, I was concerned about a studio investing in an actress who would be in her mid-40s when the third film is released. But so far the aging process has worked well for her. (Catch Me If You Can was 11 years ago.) Also, future films could touch upon a recurring idea from TV's Smallville: Clark is going to look about the same age while everyone around him gets older. Put him in a movie with an older Lois, an older Bruce Wayne, and an older Lex Luthor, and the effect is unavoidable.

[Duvall]

An official title!

The untitled Batman-Superman movie finally has a title.

Warner Bros. unveiled the title as Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, just as production got under way in Michigan.

...so this is obviously shaping up to be a fiasco.

[davekay1971]

But the long and glorious history of movies with the word "Versus" or some abbreviation of that in the title assures us of quality.

Alien vs. Predator
Freddie Vs. Jason
Godzilla Vs. (insert monster)
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
Cowboys vs. Aliens
Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus

Never has a single word in the title of a movie told us more about the quality of the movie.

Oh, sure, there are the rare exceptions (Kramer vs. Kramer, Joe vs. The Volcano, Zombies vs. Strippers), but there's an amazing consistency to "Versus/Vs/V" and movie quality!

[Olympic Fan]

But the long and glorious history of movies with the word "Versus" or some abbreviation of that in the title assures us of quality.

Alien vs. Predator
Freddie Vs. Jason
Godzilla Vs. (insert monster)
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
Cowboys vs. Aliens
Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus

Never has a single word in the title of a movie told us more about the quality of the movie.

Oh, sure, there are the rare exceptions (Kramer vs. Kramer, Joe vs. The Volcano, Zombies vs. Strippers), but there's an amazing consistency to "Versus/Vs/V" and movie quality!

One of the great comedy routines of all time, announcing the new movie "Godzilla vs. Kramer" -- Japanese lawyer: "But your honor, if you do not give Godzilla custody of the child, he will lay waste to Tokyo!"

[brevity]

But the long and glorious history of movies with the word "Versus" or some abbreviation of that in the title assures us of quality.

Alien vs. Predator
Freddie Vs. Jason
Godzilla Vs. (insert monster)
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
Cowboys vs. Aliens
Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus

Never has a single word in the title of a movie told us more about the quality of the movie.

Oh, sure, there are the rare exceptions (Kramer vs. Kramer, Joe vs. The Volcano, Zombies vs. Strippers), but there's an amazing consistency to "Versus/Vs/V" and movie quality!

Larry Flynt says hello.

I had to look it up to be sure: WB really is going with "v." instead of "vs." in the title. Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. Let's hope they change it later, because right now it sounds like a lawsuit. With Jesse Eisenberg cast as Lex Luthor, it's not hard to picture the movie as series of flashbacks during depositions and settlement conferences.

I can see it now. Lex Luthor is fending off Spider-Man and the Lone Ranger in separate cases, and we get the money line "If you guys were the founders of Luthorcorp, then you would have founded Luthorcorp."

[Duvall]

Larry Flynt says hello.

I had to look it up to be sure: WB really is going with "v." instead of "vs." in the title. Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. Let's hope they change it later, because right now it sounds like a lawsuit. With Jesse Eisenberg cast as Lex Luthor, it's not hard to picture the movie as series of flashbacks during depositions and settlement conferences.

I can see it now. Lex Luthor is fending off Spider-Man and the Lone Ranger in separate cases, and we get the money line "If you guys were the founders of Luthorcorp, then you would have founded Luthorcorp."

Actually, they're going with "V" which doesn't mean anything at all. Batman 5, Superman 0?

[JasonEvans]

Actually, they're going with "V" which doesn't mean anything at all.

[Wander]

Actually, they're going with "V" which doesn't mean anything at all. Batman 5, Superman 0?

Maybe the big plot twist is that the "V" doesn't actually stand for "versus," but for some other verb. Batman vomits Superman: Dawn of Justice.

[Duvall]

Y'all are going to have decide when summer starts for your contest between now and 2016, because the absurdly titled Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice will be coming out March 25 of that year.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Y'all are going to have decide when summer starts for your contest between now and 2016, because the absurdly titled Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice will be coming out March 25 of that year.

Any film that opens 5 days after winter ends is not a summer movie.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Any film that opens 5 days after winter ends is not a summer movie.

P.S. Who schedules a movie to open the same weekend that Duke is winning a regional?

[Duvall]

Warners has movies, a bunch of them.

Warner had previously announced that nine DC movies were coming between now and 2020, but only revealed one title, Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice, which is coming in March of 2016. Today the company revealed at least seven more. They are:

2016: Suicide Squad
2017: Wonder Woman, Justice League
2018: The Flash, Aquaman
2019: Shazam, Justice League 2

And with Zack Snyder only directing three of the eight announced films, there's a chance that one or two of them could even be watchable.

[JasonEvans]

Warners has movies, a bunch of them.

And with Zack Snyder only directing three of the eight announced films, there's a chance that one or two of them could even be watchable.

Actually, I think they announced 9 new films (Batman vs Superman has already been announced) as they say there will be a new standalone Batman and Superman films some time between 2016 and 2020, they just don't have the dates locked down for those.

The challenge for WB and DC is not picking characters and films that are worth making, but making those films in the high quality way that Marvel seems to have mastered. Aside from Nolan's 3 Batman films, the DC characters have largely been underwhelming on screen over the past couple decades.

-Jason "glad to see them taking another crack at Green Lantern" Evans