Little League World Series

[Channing]

Congratulations to the team from Warner Robbins Georgia for winning the little league world series and giving Georgia back to back championships (the team from Columbus Georgia won it last year). I think this is the first tim a team has repeated since Taipei in the early 90s. Every year I love watching the little league world series because of the fire and passion these kids play with. Its one of my favorite sporting events of the year.

[dkbaseball]

I think this is the first tim a team has repeated since Taipei in the early 90s.

I believe it was Sean Burroughs' Long Beach team in '92 and '93.

[wilson]

While the great state of Georgia has indeed repeated, it is my understanding that in order to be considered a true repeat, the champions must come from the same Little League, meaning that the same Columbus-area kids would have had to win another title this year. The Long Beach kids were indeed the same squad two years running. By contrast, Taiwanese teams won in both 1995 and 1996, but those were groups from two different cities:
(link to Wikipedia's LLWS page was to go here, but I dunno how to copy/paste without a right-click option on this flippin' Mac).
I suppose an analagous situation would be that if the Royals were to win the World Series this year on the heels of the Cards' championship last season, it would be a repeat for the stat of Missouri, but not a true repeat champion (Royals...World Series...insert joke here).
Certainly a fun event to watch. ESPN's creeping encroachment on the proceedings, however, worries me.
At any rate, always good when a bunch of Georgia boys do something right (since seemingly nobody else around here can do that these days).

[Bob Green]

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the semi-finals and championship game. Congratulations to Georgia on a hard fought victory. However, I must comment that the commentating of Brent Mussberger (sp?) was very irritating. He didn't seem very interested in staying on-topic.

[riverside6]

The Brent was definitely a pain in the neck to have to hear. That being said, I'm always amazed at the poise the kids show, and their ability to perform in clutch moments. There were truely some spectacular plays made during the 2 weeks of the event.

It's a shame that more sporting events can't have that level of desire, sportsmanship, emotion, suspense, etc.

Also, very cool that Bob Knight made the trip to support the Texas team.

[Channing]

i was very careful in my post to congratulate WR individually, and then the state of Georgia for repeating .

Whatever it is, Georgia has established itself as a mecca for baseball talent. For instance, Franceur, McCann, Micah Owings, Kyle Davies and Brandon Phillips all played high school ball against each other, and a short 5 or so years later they are all playing with/against each other on the major league level.

[JasonEvans]

What I find amazing is how well these kids react to losing. I am not talking about the championship game, but about the teams eliminated earlier in pool play. Think about it-- you are the champion of your city, your state, and your region of the country!! That means you probably don't even play a close game most of the season and go months without playing a team that has even a prayer of beating you. And then you get to the World Series and your team goes 0-3 or 1-2 and is blown out in a game or two. What must that be like?!?!? Damn...

One more point I would like to make-- Little League Baseball stinks. It is not real baseball because the field dimensions are all wrong. Dizzy Dean baseball is the way to go. That game yesterday, among 12-year-olds, was played on a field with identical dimensions to the one my 10-year-old played on this past season. In 2-years, when my son is the same age as these kids, he will be playing on a field with bases 70-feet apart, not 60, with an extra 20-30 feet of outfield fence (homeruns were waaaay too common in Little League), and with a pitching mound 4 feet further from home plate. That makes a huge difference. Little League games are all about homeruns and strikeouts. It is nothing like the baseball played in high school, college, or the pros (minor or major). Wouldn't it be nice to see some runs scord off of singles and doubles as opposed to everything being homeruns? And can we have a game with less than 2 strikeouts per inning, please? A ball hit in the air to the outfield that actually falls in for a hit as opposed to everything being caught (or misplayed but shoulda been caught). Oh, and did I mention that you are actually allowed to lead-off and steal in Dizzy Dean?

It is a real pitty the Dizzy Dean World Series does not get more attention from ESPN and ABC so folks could see real baseball among 12-year-olds. There is a reason so few major leaguers come from Little League... the best players are playing and learing how to play the game for real in Dizzy Dean leagues.

--Jason "I coached my son's 10-year-old team to the league title this year in a Dizzy Dean league so I may be a little bit biased" Evans

[JasonEvans]

As an asidem the homeplate ump stunk yesterday. He called waaay too many outside strikes, influenced by the Japanese catcher setting up 4-feet off of home plate. The Georgia kids could not reach the ball out there and he kept on calling it a strike so they would try to reach it and generally miss.

--Jason "I was watching the game on TIVO and FFWing a lot of it, did the announcers talk much about the Japanese catcher setting up outside?" Evans

[allenmurray]

What I find amazing is how well these kids react to losing. I am not talking about the championship game, but about the teams eliminated earlier in pool play. Think about it-- you are the champion of your city, your state, and your region of the country!! That means you probably don't even play a close game most of the season and go months without playing a team that has even a prayer of beating you. And then you get to the World Series and your team goes 0-3 or 1-2 and is blown out in a game or two. What must that be like?!?!? Damn...

One more point I would like to make-- Little League Baseball stinks. It is not real baseball because the field dimensions are all wrong. Dizzy Dean baseball is the way to go. That game yesterday, among 12-year-olds, was played on a field with identical dimensions to the one my 10-year-old played on this past season. In 2-years, when my son is the same age as these kids, he will be playing on a field with bases 70-feet apart, not 60, with an extra 20-30 feet of outfield fence (homeruns were waaaay too common in Little League), and with a pitching mound 4 feet further from home plate. That makes a huge difference. Little League games are all about homeruns and strikeouts. It is nothing like the baseball played in high school, college, or the pros (minor or major). Wouldn't it be nice to see some runs scord off of singles and doubles as opposed to everything being homeruns? And can we have a game with less than 2 strikeouts per inning, please? A ball hit in the air to the outfield that actually falls in for a hit as opposed to everything being caught (or misplayed but shoulda been caught). Oh, and did I mention that you are actually allowed to lead-off and steal in Dizzy Dean?

It is a real pitty the Dizzy Dean World Series does not get more attention from ESPN and ABC so folks could see real baseball among 12-year-olds. There is a reason so few major leaguers come from Little League... the best players are playing and learing how to play the game for real in Dizzy Dean leagues.

--Jason "I coached my son's 10-year-old team to the league title this year in a Dizzy Dean league so I may be a little bit biased" Evans

Some good points, though as Little League coach I will dispute a few. The 46 feet vs. 50 feet pitching mound doesn't make that big a difference. And to its credit, if Little League hadn't led the way in trying to protect 12 year old pitcher's arms most of the other folks (USSSA, AAU, etc.) wouldn't have followed, and they are still way behind LL. And just this year the fence for LL went from 200 to 225 feet - still probably too short for the "all-star" caliber player, but about right for the more average 11 or 12 year old. Home reuns were frequent in the ll World Series, but they are not frequent in regular LL play. for an average 11 or 12 year old hitting a ball 225 feet is still an accomplishment.

The rules that make LL less like real baseball at the all-star level also make it a better game for the 95% of the kids who aren't all-star level (remember them? They don't get on TV). Having no lead-offs and stealing and makes it easier for pitchers to develop real pitching skill rather than spending time worrying about the distractions of a baserunner. Yeah, it isnt' like major league baseball, but then, these are 11 and 12 year olds. We need to gear some things to their learning level, not to the entertainment value for adults. There are also very few 11 or 12 year old catchers who can actually throw out a runner going to second. Thus allowing stealing doesn't make it that much more like real baseball because in real baseball runners are not successful at stealing nearly as often as they are in youth baseball. Again, the allowing of lead offs and stealing is great for the all-star caliber player - not so great for the non all-star. North Durham Little League (where I coach) represented North Carolina at the regional level in St. Petersburg this year. So I've seen some pretty good kids play (at least the best NC had to offer).

All of your comments about Dizzy Dean (and other who use similar rules, AAU., USSSA, etc.) vs. Little League are correct for the all-star caliber player. But it is important to remember that this is a recreatinal passtime for most kids - not a training ground for high school, college, or major leagues. For the kids who want to have fun playing baseball I'll take LL rules over the other leagues any time. For the kids who have parents who dream of them making it to MLB, go for USSSA or AAU - just leave something to the kids who want to play for fun.

[dkbaseball]

While the great state of Georgia has indeed repeated, it is my understanding that in order to be considered a true repeat, the champions must come from the same Little League, meaning that the same Columbus-area kids would have had to win another title this year. The Long Beach kids were indeed the same squad two years running. By contrast, Taiwanese teams won in both 1995 and 1996, but those were groups from two different cities:

Looking back over the records it seems that the only other repeat champion besides Long Beach was Monterrey, Mexico in '57-'58 (unless it was the same Little League from Seoul in '84-'85, but Seoul is a very large city). Maybe a couple of us here are old enough to remember the Monterrey Giants and the movie How Tall is A Giant? It was a great story -- the kids rose up from real hardscrabble poverty and became the first non-U.S. team to win it. They had a pitcher named Angel Macias who threw with both arms.

It does seem like the American kids may have closed the gap with the Asians that loomed so large for so many years. What did we have to do for a few years to get an American winner -- was it just ban Taiwan, or the entire rest of the world? The current format of having the U.S. winner play the rest-of-the-world winner seems like a keeper.

And yes, Georgia is considered to have become a real baseball hotbed in recent years, a fixture on the college and pro scout circuit.

[Clipsfan]

Is the no-stealing rule in Little League new? I played catcher for my Little League team way back when and I remember that people would try and steal in those days. Thankfully I had one of those guys who grew very quickly and could throw 60+MPH heat, so not that many people tried to steal on him.

[allenmurray]

Is the no-stealing rule in Little League new? I played catcher for my Little League team way back when and I remember that people would try and steal in those days. Thankfully I had one of those guys who grew very quickly and could throw 60+MPH heat, so not that many people tried to steal on him.

Base runners can't leave the base until the ball crosses the plate (which effectively prohibits stealing). The rule is only in effect for the age groups up to age 12. For the older age groups (which play on 90 foot bases, 60 feet from pitcher to home plate) "regular" baseball rules are in effect. I don't know when these rules started - I've only been associated with LL for a few years.

[JasonEvans]

Some good points, though as Little League coach I will dispute a few. The 46 feet vs. 50 feet pitching mound doesn't make that big a difference. And to its credit, if Little League hadn't led the way in trying to protect 12 year old pitcher's arms most of the other folks (USSSA, AAU, etc.) wouldn't have followed, and they are still way behind LL. And just this year the fence for LL went from 200 to 225 feet - still probably too short for the "all-star" caliber player, but about right for the more average 11 or 12 year old. Home reuns were frequent in the ll World Series, but they are not frequent in regular LL play. for an average 11 or 12 year old hitting a ball 225 feet is still an accomplishment.

The rules that make LL less like real baseball at the all-star level also make it a better game for the 95% of the kids who aren't all-star level (remember them? They don't get on TV). Having no lead-offs and stealing and makes it easier for pitchers to develop real pitching skill rather than spending time worrying about the distractions of a baserunner. Yeah, it isnt' like major league baseball, but then, these are 11 and 12 year olds. We need to gear some things to their learning level, not to the entertainment value for adults. There are also very few 11 or 12 year old catchers who can actually throw out a runner going to second. Thus allowing stealing doesn't make it that much more like real baseball because in real baseball runners are not successful at stealing nearly as often as they are in youth baseball. Again, the allowing of lead offs and stealing is great for the all-star caliber player - not so great for the non all-star. North Durham Little League (where I coach) represented North Carolina at the regional level in St. Petersburg this year. So I've seen some pretty good kids play (at least the best NC had to offer).

All of your comments about Dizzy Dean (and other who use similar rules, AAU., USSSA, etc.) vs. Little League are correct for the all-star caliber player. But it is important to remember that this is a recreatinal passtime for most kids - not a training ground for high school, college, or major leagues. For the kids who want to have fun playing baseball I'll take LL rules over the other leagues any time. For the kids who have parents who dream of them making it to MLB, go for USSSA or AAU - just leave something to the kids who want to play for fun.

First of all, there is nothing wrong with relaxing the rules or making the parks a little bit bigger when you get to the All-star level. I agree that it is nice when the rules allow less skilled kids to not be overwhelmed but I think some slight rules changes when you get to the elite levels would be appropriate. If nothing else, at least move the fences back a little bit so every fly to the outfield is not a homer and a ball can actually be hit into the outfield and turn into a double or triple.

Secondly, my main point was that my son's 10-year-old league (we won the championship, buy the way) plays on exactly the same sized field as the best 12-year-olds in Little League. What sense does that make? The mound and the bases should be further apart at age 12-- no question about it. One can argue about steals but if you had the bases a reasonable length apart that would discourage steals a great deal. If 10 and 11-year-old kids can handle holding runners on and throwing out runners in Dizzy Dean, I am sure they can handle it in Little League too.

-Jason "I'd just like to see the LLWS be more than strikeouts and homers-- let the infields and outfielders play more of a role" Evans

[allenmurray]

First of all, there is nothing wrong with relaxing the rules or making the parks a little bit bigger when you get to the All-star level. I agree that it is nice when the rules allow less skilled kids to not be overwhelmed but I think some slight rules changes when you get to the elite levels would be appropriate. If nothing else, at least move the fences back a little bit so every fly to the outfield is not a homer and a ball can actually be hit into the outfield and turn into a double or triple.

Secondly, my main point was that my son's 10-year-old league (we won the championship, buy the way) plays on exactly the same sized field as the best 12-year-olds in Little League. What sense does that make? The mound and the bases should be further apart at age 12-- no question about it. One can argue about steals but if you had the bases a reasonable length apart that would discourage steals a great deal. If 10 and 11-year-old kids can handle holding runners on and throwing out runners in Dizzy Dean, I am sure they can handle it in Little League too.

-Jason "I'd just like to see the LLWS be more than strikeouts and homers-- let the infields and outfielders play more of a role" Evans

It might make sense to have a different set of rules once kids get past the regular season and into the tournament season (particularly in regard to moving back the fence). My own son played LL all year, then played in a couple of local tournaments under USSSA rules after the LL season ended (he was not on the North Durham all-star team). He is a pitcher/first baseman so he had to quickly adjust to lead-offs, stealing, and longer base paths. He found none of that to be a problem, and he isn't a great baseball player. (He said that the four feet difference in the length from home plate to pitchers mound was unnoticeable for him - on the other hand he doesn't throw curve balls, which is where you'd notice it the most). but even with a really good catcher on the team the other team stole at will - there are simply not many 12 year olds who are going to make that throw.

So for post-season it might make sense - these kids are at such an elite level they can handle the more "major league" rules, longer base paths, and longer fence. It is in the regular season that the hundreds of "average" kids who would suffer.

[jimsumner]

"Brent Mussberger (sp?) was very irritating. He didn't seem very interested in staying on-topic."

As opposed to when?

I agree with Jason that the dimensions are wrong. Raleigh doesn't have LL. The city goes with PONY. At ages 11-12 (Bronco), the bases are 70 feet apart and the mound is 48 feet from the plate. There is something wrong when a batter hits a routine grounder to third, the third baseman fields it cleanly, throws a strike to first, and the batter is safe. Happens all the time in LL.

[cowetarock]

First of all, there is nothing wrong with relaxing the rules or making the parks a little bit bigger when you get to the All-star level. I agree that it is nice when the rules allow less skilled kids to not be overwhelmed but I think some slight rules changes when you get to the elite levels would be appropriate. If nothing else, at least move the fences back a little bit so every fly to the outfield is not a homer and a ball can actually be hit into the outfield and turn into a double or triple.

Secondly, my main point was that my son's 10-year-old league (we won the championship, buy the way) plays on exactly the same sized field as the best 12-year-olds in Little League. What sense does that make? The mound and the bases should be further apart at age 12-- no question about it. One can argue about steals but if you had the bases a reasonable length apart that would discourage steals a great deal. If 10 and 11-year-old kids can handle holding runners on and throwing out runners in Dizzy Dean, I am sure they can handle it in Little League too.

-Jason "I'd just like to see the LLWS be more than strikeouts and homers-- let the infields and outfielders play more of a role" Evans

While I believe confession is a good thing it was still bad form for you to buy that championship for your son.

[wilson]

What I find amazing is how well these kids react to losing. I am not talking about the championship game, but about the teams eliminated earlier in pool play. Think about it-- you are the champion of your city, your state, and your region of the country!! That means you probably don't even play a close game most of the season and go months without playing a team that has even a prayer of beating you. And then you get to the World Series and your team goes 0-3 or 1-2 and is blown out in a game or two. What must that be like?!?!? Damn...

--Jason "I coached my son's 10-year-old team to the league title this year in a Dizzy Dean league so I may be a little bit biased" Evans

These are not actual, single teams from particular Little Leagues. These are the all-star teams from their respective leagues. That is to say, most of these kids didn't play on the same team throughout the regular season. They each played on standard teams, and in fact did play close games (in fact, some of them at least theoretically played on teams that out-and-out stunk). The season for these teams begins after the Braves, Dodgers, etc. from each league have sorted things out. They begin with area-wide tournaments between the 11 and 12 year-old all stars from each of the different Little League outfits in the area. Because of all the travel involved, this "second season" (at least for the best squads) can stretch far longer than the regular season. But these kids haven't been playing together from day one, and the standard Little League team (or player) has no chance of sniffing this kind of competition.

[JasonEvans]

These are not actual, single teams from particular Little Leagues. These are the all-star teams from their respective leagues. That is to say, most of these kids didn't play on the same team throughout the regular season. They each played on standard teams, and in fact did play close games (in fact, some of them at least theoretically played on teams that out-and-out stunk). The season for these teams begins after the Braves, Dodgers, etc. from each league have sorted things out. They begin with area-wide tournaments between the 11 and 12 year-old all stars from each of the different Little League outfits in the area. Because of all the travel involved, this "second season" (at least for the best squads) can stretch far longer than the regular season. But these kids haven't been playing together from day one, and the standard Little League team (or player) has no chance of sniffing this kind of competition.

I am quite aware of this. Regardless, the all-star teams these kids play upon did nothing but win, and win big I suspect, from the moment they were put together back in May.

Also, there are plenty of leagues that pick their all-star teams earlier than the end of the season so they can play together longer. My league does not do this but I know of leagues that pick their all-stars at the beginning of their "regular season." to me it does not make sense, but I know of leagues that operate this way.

Regardless, original point about the field being too small in Little League is something we certainly can agree upon.

-Jason "my league refuses to go beyond the first week of July, so we miss out on the Dizzy Dean/Bronco/Pony World Series" Evans