Leadership, not "Who Will Play C", is the real question for 2013-14 season

[Acymetric]

I think it is a question of who joins Tyler Thornton as Co-Captain if anyone. I am still debating on who I think it will be.

I think it is fairly likely that Cook will start the season as a captain. On the other hand it wouldn't shock me if he wasn't...as most have said Thornton seems to be a lock and outside that it is mostly conjecture.

[gep]

I think TT starts out as sole captain. Quinn (and/or others) get added as the season progresses, as coach K sees it

[TruBlu]

I think TT starts out as sole captain. Quinn (and/or others) get added as the season progresses, as coach K sees it

From an emotional point of view, I would love to see Dre earn a spot as co-captain. Really pulling for this kid.

[MCFinARL]

I think TT starts out as sole captain. Quinn (and/or others) get added as the season progresses, as coach K sees it

If Coach K has any concerns about how Quinn might function as a captain, I could see this scenario--which he used with Seth in both 2011-12, adding him to Miles and Ryan in October, and 2012-13, adding him to Mason and Ryan in January. I'm not an insider so I don't know the thinking behind this, but perhaps as a motivator it worked well with Seth to set specific goals he was to achieve to be named captain. And I suppose this last year there might have been some concern about how his chronic injury might affect his role. If K feels Quinn is ready, though, he seems like an obvious choice from the get go.

From an emotional point of view, I would love to see Dre earn a spot as co-captain. Really pulling for this kid.

Agree with this 100%. Don't know from a practical point of view, however, whether Dre's year-long absence would remove him from consideration; he may need to focus primarily on re-integrating into the team, and he hasn't practiced or played at all with Sulaimon, Jefferson, or Hood. Possibly this would be another situation where he might be able to earn a spot after time.

[dball]

Interesting comments from Tyler on Duke Blue Planet

http://blog.dukeblueplanet.com/2013/...senior-summer/

[jv001]

Interesting comments from Tyler on Duke Blue Planet

http://blog.dukeblueplanet.com/2013/...senior-summer/

Sounds like Captain material to me. GoDuke!

[rsvman]

From an emotional point of view, I would love to see Dre earn a spot as co-captain. Really pulling for this kid.

Amen, bro.

Tried to spork you but apparently I've agreed with you too many times. I really hope/think that Dawkins is going to pleasantly surprise a lot of people this next season.

[Lennies]

Am I the only one who read the title of this thread as "Who Will not Play C", is the real question for 2013-14 season? The funny part is that I still get the same answer, Quinn!

[OldPhiKap]

Sounds like Captain material to me. GoDuke!

Sounds like next assistant coach material to me. AgreeGoDuke!

[Ichabod Drain]

I think TT starts out as sole captain. Quinn (and/or others) get added as the season progresses, as coach K sees it

Unless Hairston earns the starting spot at the 5, Cook will in all likelihood be the most senior starter (Hood is the same class but in only his second year at Duke and first year playing for Duke). I'm trying to remember if we've had a starting lineup that didn't include a captain in recent memory. Anyone have an idea?

[BlueDevilBrowns]

I think it's important to keep in mind that the captaincy designation isn't a "Lifetime Acheivement Award" such as "So-and-So deserves it because he's a Senior". Being a team leader is a heavy responsibility, not a reward for being a nice guy. It's extra work, because not only are you having to motivate yourself, your also having to keep others motivated and focused at the same time. Additionally, the Captain(s) is the go-between from Coaches to Players on many occasions, so this requires effective communication skills. There's a plethora of other requirements associated with being a Captain that not everyone is cut out for, no matter what level of experience/age/graduating class.

To me, it doesn't matter if you are a Senior or a Freshman, if you take on that Mantle of Leadership and guys follow your lead, you're ready to handle that weight.

Again, it shouldn't be "I really admire Player "X" so I hope Coach K makes him a Captain".

I'm not saying that's specifically what anyone on this board has said but I think sometimes people lose sight of the fact of what being a Captain really means. It shouldn't be taken lightly.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I rarely do this but felt the need to go back to an old thread I started back in May when everyone was debating our "troubles" at the center position. I posited that our bigger challenge would be leadership and where it would come from. Some agreed and others flat out dismissed the question as a non-issue pointing to Cook and Thornton in particular as guys who would step forward to fill the gap left by the departure of Ryan, Seth and Mason.

In light of all the "conversation" about our defensive woes and K's acknowledgment of poor communication and lackadaisical approach to at least the Vermont game, I would again put forward the idea that leadership remains then biggest open question. Without it, and without the accountability that respected team leaders can enforce, I suspect it will be hard for the team to achieve sustained improvement on the defensive end.

But I actually see all this as a moment for one or two guys to step forward and lead the team. It's the perfect platform to do so. I hope it materializes.

[Kedsy]

But I actually see all this as a moment for one or two guys to step forward and lead the team. It's the perfect platform to do so. I hope it materializes.

I think it has to be Rodney and Jabari who step up as leaders. Of course, they both have to really learn and apply the defense first (especially Jabari), but I think they can rise to the occasion.

[UrinalCake]

Agreed; Jabari is an incredibly humble guy and Hood is very quiet on the court, but it is clear at this point that this is their team and we will go only as far as they can take us. They both need to become vocal leaders on the court, despite being newcomers. I love Tyler and Hairston but if we're relying on them to be our leaders then unfortunately that puts a ceiling on how good this team can be. Quinn doesn't seem to have that coach-on-the-court mentality that we need from a PG, which I think is why Tyler is getting so many minutes.

[duke96]

Does anyone really think we don't need both a credible answer at the 5 position and real leadership? (And, I would submit, not just leadership from one of our team members, but from one of our more talented, disciplined players.) No modern era Duke team has won a championship without both. For the moment, we still have real questions about both (but plenty of time to come up with some answers).

[Rich]

I rarely do this but felt the need to go back to an old thread I started back in May when everyone was debating our "troubles" at the center position. I posited that our bigger challenge would be leadership and where it would come from. Some agreed and others flat out dismissed the question as a non-issue pointing to Cook and Thornton in particular as guys who would step forward to fill the gap left by the departure of Ryan, Seth and Mason.

In light of all the "conversation" about our defensive woes and K's acknowledgment of poor communication and lackadaisical approach to at least the Vermont game, I would again put forward the idea that leadership remains then biggest open question. Without it, and without the accountability that respected team leaders can enforce, I suspect it will be hard for the team to achieve sustained improvement on the defensive end.

But I actually see all this as a moment for one or two guys to step forward and lead the team. It's the perfect platform to do so. I hope it materializes.

I'm going to disagree somewhat. Every team needs leaders, but the issue with this year's team (right now) is that they don't know the system, which largely means the defensive schemes. We've seen time and time again that for a Coach K team to be successful the upperclassmen teach the lowerclassmen. The upperclassmen on this year's team were never starters, have always been role players, and in my view can't help teach the system to the yonger kids the way a 2 or 3 year starter could. Coach K's system does not favor a one-and-done style. It favors longevity or at least a mix of senior starters with the newer guys, which we don't have. I believe our defense will get better because guys like Parker and Hood are smart and have good basketball minds, but I just don't know when they'll figure it out.

[Kedsy]

Does anyone really think we don't need both a credible answer at the 5 position and real leadership? (And, I would submit, not just leadership from one of our team members, but from one of our more talented, disciplined players.) No modern era Duke team has won a championship without both. For the moment, we still have real questions about both (but plenty of time to come up with some answers).

What do you mean by "credible answer at the 5 position"? Depending on your answer I might really think we don't need it.

Also, Duke has won a total of four national championships, and two were with essentially the same team. That's quite a small sample to make sweeping generalizations about what we need, don't you think?

[duke96]

What do you mean by "credible answer at the 5 position"? Depending on your answer I might really think we don't need it.

Also, Duke has won a total of four national championships, and two were with essentially the same team. That's quite a small sample to make sweeping generalizations about what we need, don't you think?

Um, how about someone listed as a C or PF/C. Or someone who is 6'9" (and beefy) or taller (and not necessarily beefy). How would you propose to define it to argue otherwise?

I find your second question somewhat puzzling in the context of a thread devoted to whether we need one versus the other, but in any case no I don't think that's too small of a sample size in the context of having watched 25+ years of duke basketball and noted that our most successful teams share this quality (which they do).

Should you require more "n", I think you will find the same standard generally applies to all of our final four teams, at least in the last 25 years.

[Kedsy]

Um, how about someone listed as a C or PF/C. Or someone who is 6'9" (and beefy) or taller (and not necessarily beefy). How would you propose to define it to argue otherwise?

I find your second question somewhat puzzling in the context of a thread devoted to whether we need one versus the other, but in any case no I don't think that's too small of a sample size in the context of having watched 25+ years of duke basketball and noted that our most successful teams share this quality (which they do).

Should you require more "n", I think you will find the same standard generally applies to all of our final four teams, at least in the last 25 years.

Well it certainly does not apply to all our Final Four teams. The 1986 team played Jay Bilas (listed at 6'8) at center and the 1989 team played Robert Brickey (listed at 6'5) at center. Even Elton Brand (6'8) was shorter than 6'9, so technically he wouldn't meet your criteria either.

But putting that aside, what would having someone "listed as a C or PF/C" give us that would mean the difference between having a championship caliber team and not? Post defense? So far, at least, post defense hasn't been our problem, or at least our post defense has been much more effective than our perimeter defense. Defensive rebounding? Well, so far our team's defensive rebounding percentage is 67.3%, about the same as 2010 (67.5%), better than 1999 (65.1%), and significantly better than 2001 (63.9%) and 2004 (62.9%). I don't have numbers from before 1997, but my guess is it compares favorably with most of our other good teams, too. Due to Coach K's defensive system, Duke has never been a great defensive rebounding team. Offensive presence in the post? We have the #1 offense in the country; no matter how much you twist it, the offensive contributions of a big center can't possibly be considered a legitimate issue for us this season.

So unless you can come up with a legitimate reason why a 6'9 (beefy) or 6'10+ (not necessarily beefy) center is a requirement for post-season success, I'm going to disagree that it is.

[roywhite]

I think it has to be Rodney and Jabari who step up as leaders. Of course, they both have to really learn and apply the defense first (especially Jabari), but I think they can rise to the occasion.

Yeah; that seems right; they are certainly the best players offensively and can become very good defenders.

After 6 games, Jabari leads the team in scoring, rebounding, blocks, and steals. That's a pretty amazing start.