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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California

    A 19 inning game has consequences

    Last night the A's and the Angels played the longest game of the season: 19 innings and 6-1/2 hours, ending at 1:41 PDT. I, stupidly, kept one eye on the TV until the end, when Brandon Moss hit his walk-off two run homer. The real problem for the teams was not the W or the L, but the players falling to injury.

    AP:

    Angels center fielder Peter Bourjos was removed with a strained left hamstring and is headed to the disabled list. Third baseman Luis Jimenez came out with a bruised left shin.

    Oakland lost center fielder Coco Crisp to a strained left hamstring and outfielder Chris Young to a strained left quadriceps.
    Brett Anderson was originally scheduled to start for the A's but was scratched with a sore right ankle in favor of Dan Straily. Anderson entered to start the 13th and pitched 5 1-3 innings before hobbling off the field with an apparent foot injury.
    This kind of battle often becomes a Pyrric victory. Both teams suffered unnecessary personnel losses here. Bourjos, Crisp and Young all injured themselves while running to first.

    Injury also played a role in the pitching selection. Brett Anderson had earlier suffered a bruised ankle and had been scratched as the starter. By the 13th, the A's had run out of relievers (except for Jerry Blevins who had been overused and wasn't supposed to be available). So Melvin checked with Anderson to see if he would go. And Anderson did. Although he did walk in a run in the 15th, Anderson went 5 1/3 innings. But he, too, left after re-injuring his ankle fielding a come-backer. So Blevins had to work 1-2/3 innings for the win (and even got a rare at-bat). I dunno what the lineups would have looked like if this game had gone past 19 innings. (The boxscore is crazy)

    So...were all the injuries worth it? I'm betting neither manager would say so. Bourjos on the DL is certainly a loss for the Angels. I haven't seen how the A's will address their injuries.

  2. #82

    long games

    The Angels-A's 19-inning game was not the only marathon Monday night. The Mets and the Marlins went 15 innings in Miami.

    Brutal loss for the Mets. Blew the lead in the bottom of the ninth. Took a one run lead in the top of 15th, then gave up two in the bottom of the 15th to lose.

    Equally brutal loss for the Mets in Miami tonight. Up 1-0 going into the bottom of the ninth when the pen gave up two runs (without getting anybody out). The winning run scored on a wild pitch.

    Meanwhile, the Braves beat the Nats again and stretch their NL East lead to 4.5 games. Great night by Tim Hudson, who won his 200th career game, and hit a home run (with some help from Bryce Harper)

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    ...

    Meanwhile, the Braves beat the Nats again and stretch their NL East lead to 4.5 games. Great night by Tim Hudson, who won his 200th career game, and hit a home run (with some help from Bryce Harper)
    Ugh. I had hoped that taking 3 of 4 from Cincy at home over the weekend meant that the Nats had righted the ship, but it appears that they just took advantage of a Reds team that is pretty pathetic on the road and nigh-unbeatable at home. After his early jitters, Strasburg settled down in Monday's loss, but Gio just was not good last night. If his fastball isn't moving, and he isn't consistently getting his curveball in the zone, then plenty of major leaguers can figure out how to hit a 94 mph fastball. Add that to a weak-performing offense, and you get a .500 team that has lost 9 - or is it 10? - in a row to the Braves.

    Here's hoping Zimmermann can duplicate his shut-out performance from last Friday...
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by JBDuke View Post
    Ugh. I had hoped that taking 3 of 4 from Cincy at home over the weekend meant that the Nats had righted the ship, but it appears that they just took advantage of a Reds team that is pretty pathetic on the road and nigh-unbeatable at home. After his early jitters, Strasburg settled down in Monday's loss, but Gio just was not good last night. If his fastball isn't moving, and he isn't consistently getting his curveball in the zone, then plenty of major leaguers can figure out how to hit a 94 mph fastball. Add that to a weak-performing offense, and you get a .500 team that has lost 9 - or is it 10? - in a row to the Braves.

    Here's hoping Zimmermann can duplicate his shut-out performance from last Friday...
    As a Nats fan, I realize it's still very early, the team hasn't been healthy, LaRoche has been in a slump, etc, etc so I'm not ready to push the panic button, but the safety is off...

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    As a Nats fan, I realize it's still very early, the team hasn't been healthy, LaRoche has been in a slump, etc, etc so I'm not ready to push the panic button, but the safety is off...
    Isn't it better to have NO expectations of success? Much less disappointment and frustration.

    6 down in a row now for my Mets...thud...we've come down to Earth.

  6. #86

    Manny Machado = Kyrie

    Both have a preternatural calm beyond their years, and play-making ability.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/92...ple-oriole-way

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.
    Well, Strasburg and Gonzalez may be having up and down starts, although Strasburg's really isn't that bad, but Jordan Zimmermann is a STUD. Eight more shutout innings to go with his complete-game shutout the last time around.

    Here's hoping Harper's oblique was just some mild soreness. The Nats' offense right now is pretty much just Bryce and Ian Desmond. If Harper has to miss any significant time, the pitchers better be prepared to pitch more shutouts if they want wins...
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by duke74 View Post
    Isn't it better to have NO expectations of success? Much less disappointment and frustration.

    6 down in a row now for my Mets...thud...we've come down to Earth.
    Very much agree on low expectations leading to less disappointment - last season was amazing as a Nats fan as we won the division a year or two "early" relative to expectations, so it was all upside (brutal game 5 not withstanding, although that was all about expectations as well - if we were down 3-0 in the first instead of up it would have been a lot easier to accept).

    However, the dangerous flip side is when expectations are low but yet never exceeded - like for Wizards fans and Redskins fans in the 20 years between the 92 super bowl and RGIII - then it is just plain depressing.

    As Duke fans we are stuck in this trap as well - only rarely can we have an "exceeds expectations" season, which I guess is the price you pay for having so much sustained success (high class problems, I know)

  9. #89

    expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    Very much agree on low expectations leading to less disappointment - last season was amazing as a Nats fan as we won the division a year or two "early" relative to expectations, so it was all upside (brutal game 5 not withstanding, although that was all about expectations as well - if we were down 3-0 in the first instead of up it would have been a lot easier to accept).

    However, the dangerous flip side is when expectations are low but yet never exceeded - like for Wizards fans and Redskins fans in the 20 years between the 92 super bowl and RGIII - then it is just plain depressing.

    As Duke fans we are stuck in this trap as well - only rarely can we have an "exceeds expectations" season, which I guess is the price you pay for having so much sustained success (high class problems, I know)
    Can I chime in on this topic?

    As a Yankee fan, I have rarely -- almost never -- gone into a season with low expectations --- at least not since my youth in the late '60s and early '70s, when the team hit rock bottom. Even in the frustrating '80s and early '90s, the big-spending Yankees were contenders almost every season.

    This season has been a delight. With the free agent defections, the injuries to so many key players and the management's refusal to pay for even mid-level free agent replacements (well, I guess Youkiliis was a mid-level free agent, but now he's on the DL too ... they picked up most of these guys -- Wells, Overbay, Hafner and Boesch on the cheap), I went into this season with almost no expectations. I'm not the only one -- almost every national projection I saw picked the Blue Jays, Rays and Orioles at the tof of the AL East -- with the Yankees and Red Sox picked near the bottom.

    Obviously, I've been delighted by the first month of the season. 17-10 is not overwhelming, but it's tied for the second best record in the AL. It's a rare experience being the underdog. It's a nice change of pace. Most year, I end the season disappointed if we don't at least win the pennant -- winning the division is almost a given. This season, I'll be delighted if the Yankees make the playoffs, even as a wild card. Anything after that would be gravy.

    PS It must be great to be a Red Sox fan too ... they've had a few tough years. To have the best record in baseball to this point ...

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Braves in the process of blowing a winnable game against Dan Haren, and leaving the Nationals a scant 2.5 games back. That fast start was pretty much wasted.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    On the plus side, the Mets, Phillies and Marlins are all pretty bad. The Braves should still be able to hold off at least two of them to finish third.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    On the plus side, the Mets, Phillies and Marlins are all pretty bad. The Braves should still be able to hold off at least two of them to finish third.
    Maybe I was wrong about holding onto third place. Sad to see a team unravel like this.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Maybe I was wrong about holding onto third place. Sad to see a team unravel like this.
    Yea, one run in ~18 innings isn't going to win too many games. Be nice to see the million dollar Uggla and the other Upton bust through the Mendoza line.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  14. #94

    Al east

    Dismal night for the AL East -- unless you happen to be Tampa Bay.

    Boston, New York, Baltimore and Toronto were all shut out Friday. Tampa saved the division from a whitewash by rallying to beat Colorado.

    I know that the record for the AL East is pretty good, but I still think it's very possible -- almost likely -- that the second-place team is going to miss a wild card bid. I just think that there's too much strength in the AL West. Texas and Oakland are better than anybody in the East (including Boston). Just hoping that the Angels don't get it together.

    BTW, any thoughts of the Bucholtz cheating accusations? I know ESPN whitewashed the issue, but the MLB Network had some startling photo footage that convinced several of their ex-player experts that he was loading the ball.

    I guess the real test will be his performance going on -- I'm sure he'll be under closer scrutiny. Will he continue to be unhittable?

  15. #95

    Bucholtz

    Hmmm.

    In his first start since being accused of cheating, Clay Bucholtz has his worst outing of the season -- not terrible, but four runs in seven innings is pretty weak for a guy who had a 1.01 ERA in his first six starts. On MLB Tonight, they did closeups of his forearm and did not find the shiny substance that Jack Morris saw and complained about.

    Again, I don't know if this proves anything, but it is suspicious that Bucholtz, who was pretty much unhittable in the six starts before being accused of cheating, suddenly comes down to earn when he's called out for loading the ball. I guess we'll learn more in his future starts.

    Bucholtz has always been a good pitcher, but he was a career 3.75 ERA in over 100 career games heading into this year. Did he suddenly become a 1.01 ERA guy ... or was he getting help?

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Partly Orlando, FL partly heard Sandpoint, ID
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Hmmm.

    In his first start since being accused of cheating, Clay Bucholtz has his worst outing of the season -- not terrible, but four runs in seven innings is pretty weak for a guy who had a 1.01 ERA in his first six starts. On MLB Tonight, they did closeups of his forearm and did not find the shiny substance that Jack Morris saw and complained about.

    Again, I don't know if this proves anything, but it is suspicious that Bucholtz, who was pretty much unhittable in the six starts before being accused of cheating, suddenly comes down to earn when he's called out for loading the ball. I guess we'll learn more in his future starts.

    Bucholtz has always been a good pitcher, but he was a career 3.75 ERA in over 100 career games heading into this year. Did he suddenly become a 1.01 ERA guy ... or was he getting help?
    I think its rather unfair to Buchholz, who was pitching better than, well, anyone has in like 40 years to expect him to continue that run. He's always been a pretty good pitcher, but never even in the conversation for Cy Young. So its by no means shocking at all that he will revert more to his norm as the season progresses. Add in added distraction and pressure from the whole incident, and its not terribly shocking he had a meh outing. If that is suspicious to you, then every player who starts the year with a good start or two should be viewed as suspicious when their ERAs rise over the course of the season

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Deslok View Post
    I think its rather unfair to Buchholz, who was pitching better than, well, anyone has in like 40 years to expect him to continue that run. He's always been a pretty good pitcher, but never even in the conversation for Cy Young. So its by no means shocking at all that he will revert more to his norm as the season progresses. Add in added distraction and pressure from the whole incident, and its not terribly shocking he had a meh outing. If that is suspicious to you, then every player who starts the year with a good start or two should be viewed as suspicious when their ERAs rise over the course of the season
    It's also important to remember that he had 17 wins with an era of 2.3 just a few years ago. He's always had good stuff.. Just not durability. He clearly wasn't going to go the whole year with an era of 1

  18. #98

    Bucholtz

    Quote Originally Posted by Deslok View Post
    I think its rather unfair to Buchholz, who was pitching better than, well, anyone has in like 40 years to expect him to continue that run. He's always been a pretty good pitcher, but never even in the conversation for Cy Young. So its by no means shocking at all that he will revert more to his norm as the season progresses. Add in added distraction and pressure from the whole incident, and its not terribly shocking he had a meh outing. If that is suspicious to you, then every player who starts the year with a good start or two should be viewed as suspicious when their ERAs rise over the course of the season
    I didn't offer last night's gave as PROOF that he had been cheating ... only as one piece of evidence that tends to support the hypothesis.

    If I were on a jury ... the photos of his left forearm -- clearly shiny in his first six starts, not shiny in his seventh start -- would also be evidence ... but not proof.

    Nobody has ever denied that Bucholtz was a good pitcher. The question is whether he used a sticky substance, illegally applied to the ball, to turn himself into a great pitcher (which he was for six games).

    We'll see more evidence over the course of the season. But based on the evidence I've seen so far, I'd tend to believe he was cheating and had to stop when Jack Morris called him out. Beyond reasonable doubt? No.

  19. #99
    Matt Harvey seems to be not bad at baseball.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Hmmm.

    In his first start since being accused of cheating, Clay Bucholtz has his worst outing of the season -- not terrible, but four runs in seven innings is pretty weak for a guy who had a 1.01 ERA in his first six starts. On MLB Tonight, they did closeups of his forearm and did not find the shiny substance that Jack Morris saw and complained about.

    Again, I don't know if this proves anything, but it is suspicious that Bucholtz, who was pretty much unhittable in the six starts before being accused of cheating, suddenly comes down to earn when he's called out for loading the ball. I guess we'll learn more in his future starts.

    Bucholtz has always been a good pitcher, but he was a career 3.75 ERA in over 100 career games heading into this year. Did he suddenly become a 1.01 ERA guy ... or was he getting help?
    Although this is classic circumstantial evidence, what better evidence is there, really outside of a confession? I was waiting to see how he did in his first start post-Jack Morris, and I got a clear answer. How he does the rest of the year in comparison to his first month will continue to be watched closely.
    Singler is IRON

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