CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying

[OldPhiKap]

Apparently Altidore has agreed to terms with Sunderland. Good move on his part.

And Landon Donavan earned his spot last night.

[JohnGalt]

Did anyone watch? I wasn't able to but all the boards are gushing over Stu's performance.

I've long thought he could take our team to a new level. He provides a dimension of creativity further up the field that - IMO - no one else in our national team setup possesses. A Holden/Bradley/Jones central midfield could be pretty solid I think and probably the best we can put together at this point in time.

The super-humongo-ginormous caveat is whether or not he would ever recover from such a long and serious injury layoff. Guatemala were supposedly terrible but he seems to have at least started moving public opinion into the position of: YES, he'll be back.

Anyone have any opinions?

[A-Tex Devil]

Did anyone watch? I wasn't able to but all the boards are gushing over Stu's performance.

I've long thought he could take our team to a new level. He provides a dimension of creativity further up the field that - IMO - no one else in our national team setup possesses. A Holden/Bradley/Jones central midfield could be pretty solid I think and probably the best we can put together at this point in time.

The super-humongo-ginormous caveat is whether or not he would ever recover from such a long and serious injury layoff. Guatemala were supposedly terrible but he seems to have at least started moving public opinion into the position of: YES, he'll be back.

Anyone have any opinions?

I watched Holden at Stamford Bridge against Chelsea in Dec. 2010. He was the best player on the field that day. Hope he can get back in form.

[JohnGalt]

I watched Holden at Stamford Bridge against Chelsea in Dec. 2010. He was the best player on the field that day. Hope he can get back in form.

I bet so. He was Bolton's POY that year even though he didn't play most of the 2nd half of the season. I wonder if Klinsmann is confident enough in his fitness to give him a full 90 tonight? I've been waiting for this - literally - for years now.

[A-Tex Devil]

Let's assume the best case scenario -- that Landon Donovan's form is still top 11 good, and Stuart Holden is back in 2010-2011 form. What does the US midfield look like?

Is it Landon and Clint a little forward with Bradley playing holding midfield and Holden and Zusi on the wings? Run a 4-5-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 with Jozy up front? I am not as proficient with the strategy here, but it seems like that would be a pretty damn good midfield for us/U.S barring any glaring redundancies -- which I'm simply not learned enough to know about.

[JohnGalt]

Let's assume the best case scenario -- that Landon Donovan's form is still top 11 good, and Stuart Holden is back in 2010-2011 form. What does the US midfield look like?

Is it Landon and Clint a little forward with Bradley playing holding midfield and Holden and Zusi on the wings? Run a 4-5-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 with Jozy up front? I am not as proficient with the strategy here, but it seems like that would be a pretty damn good midfield for us/U.S barring any glaring redundancies -- which I'm simply not learned enough to know about.

I don't know that I trust that lineup to defend adequately. I know that our fullbacks generally provide good cover down the flanks but the CB situation is so tenuous right now I think having something closer to a traditional #4 is necessary...a role that Bradley and Jones seem OK at sharing - the double pivot as they call it - since both players have a tendency to and enjoy getting forward when possible. Still though, their performances together weren't ever convincing...moreso just adequate. I know the sample size is tiny but I'd like to see Cameron get a few more looks as he slid in nearly seamlessly and played a lot more horizontally than either Bradley or Jones ever did. He was a big ball-winning machine. In my opinion, he did a fantastic job cleaning up opposing breaks and allowed Bradley more freedom to get forward in the manner in which he prefers. Bradley is often called a jack-of-all-trades midfielder in that he doesn't do any one task exceptionally but provides patience and composure over the ball wherever he goes. And he works very hard. If we were able to relieve him of most of his defensive duties I imagine that him and Holden (yes, already sticking him in there) would combine excellently further up the field...especially since both have fantastic work rates.

I think the hardest decision at the moment is whether or not to stick Landon right back in. I don't think anyone can question the fact that Zusi is a more traditional winger and Jozy is a more traditional forward and...ipso facto...Jozy began scoring. Obviously Deuce isn't coming off. We could push Landon up with Jozy but then we'd have to sacrifice a CM, something I can't see Klinsmann doing because his stint at manager is all about the slow evolution toward controlling the game through possession. Lord knows we aren't suitable defensively to play 3 at the back. We're having trouble coming up with 2 CBs, let alone 3. So IMO the biggest question is what to do on the outside. It's hard to see Landon sitting for Zusi but it is Klinsmann...he of a World Cup, Euro Cup, Bundesliga, and UEFA Cup.

I'm interesting to hear some more thoughts on this. It's an interesting problem/challenge for us.

[luburch]

Wondo with a first half hat-trick.

[gumbomoop]

Didn't want to start new thread just to seek help on a little mystery, figuring one of the football devotees who click on this thread could provide some info.

Here's the mystery, which is driving me nuts. I have read and still possess a paperback copy of Franklin Foer's How Soccer Explains the World. But I have a distinct memory of having read - I would swear in this book - a chapter on football in Istanbul, specifically the rivalries among Galatasaray, Fenerbahce, and Besiktas. But there is no such chapter in my copy of Foer.

Some of you must have read this book. Do you remember a chapter on Istanbul? Did some other author write such as essay? Did Foer write it elsewhere, maybe in some magazine, but then simply did not include it in How Soccer?

Help.

[blazindw]

Didn't want to start new thread just to seek help on a little mystery, figuring one of the football devotees who click on this thread could provide some info.

Here's the mystery, which is driving me nuts. I have read and still possess a paperback copy of Franklin Foer's How Soccer Explains the World. But I have a distinct memory of having read - I would swear in this book - a chapter on football in Istanbul, specifically the rivalries among Galatasaray, Fenerbahce, and Besiktas. But there is no such chapter in my copy of Foer.

Some of you must have read this book. Do you remember a chapter on Istanbul? Did some other author write such as essay? Did Foer write it elsewhere, maybe in some magazine, but then simply did not include it in How Soccer?

Help.

Looking at my copy, it's not in this one, and I don't remember reading it back in the day. For those of you who haven't read the book, it's a great read and I highly recommend it.

[gumbomoop]

Looking at my copy, it's not in this one, and I don't remember reading it back in the day. For those of you who haven't read the book, it's a great read and I highly recommend it.

Thanks for response. I'm hesitant to put this down simply to something I imagined, as I have a longtime acquaintance who has the same memory of this Istanbul thing. I'll have to contact him again, and see if we can figure out what we're remembering. It might have been a different author, but our memory makes us think it fits exactly the other chapters in Foer. Weird.

[JohnGalt]

Thanks for response. I'm hesitant to put this down simply to something I imagined, as I have a longtime acquaintance who has the same memory of this Istanbul thing. I'll have to contact him again, and see if we can figure out what we're remembering. It might have been a different author, but our memory makes us think it fits exactly the other chapters in Foer. Weird.

I seem to remember reading something about Istanbul as well...maybe it's in Football Against the Enemy? Have you read Kuper's book? It's very similar to HSEW...sort of the precursor to it. I think I remember enjoying it more too, actually.

Fever Pitch and Inverting the Pyramid are still my 2 favorites though.

[gumbomoop]

I seem to remember reading something about Istanbul as well...maybe it's in Football Against the Enemy? Have you read Kuper's book? It's very similar to HSEW...sort of the precursor to it. I think I remember enjoying it more too, actually.

Fever Pitch and Inverting the Pyramid are still my 2 favorites though.

Yes, I've started following my nose [on the internet], checking out similar books, and I've checked into Kuper. Alas, he didn't visit Turkey, so it's not him.

But it's getting weirder, my memory, that is. For now I swear that the book, Foer's or someone's, was .... odd-shaped, i.e., none of the standard paperback sizes, but longer and thinner. I can even see in my mind's memory-eye the place where I read this Istanbul chapter: Barnes & Noble, 2d floor, 2008.

I've lost it, in more ways than one. Perhaps I'll start stalking Foer, and demand the truth.

Love Fever Pitch. Haven't read Inverting. Am just into David Goldblatt's encyclopaedic The Ball is Round: A Global History of Soccer (2008). Incredibly interesting to me, as I've only recently gotten into the history of the game.

[JohnGalt]

Yes, I've started following my nose [on the internet], checking out similar books, and I've checked into Kuper. Alas, he didn't visit Turkey, so it's not him.

But it's getting weirder, my memory, that is. For now I swear that the book, Foer's or someone's, was .... odd-shaped, i.e., none of the standard paperback sizes, but longer and thinner. I can even see in my mind's memory-eye the place where I read this Istanbul chapter: Barnes & Noble, 2d floor, 2008.

I've lost it, in more ways than one. Perhaps I'll start stalking Foer, and demand the truth.

Love Fever Pitch. Haven't read Inverting. Am just into David Goldblatt's encyclopaedic The Ball is Round: A Global History of Soccer (2008). Incredibly interesting to me, as I've only recently gotten into the history of the game.

Der ball ist rund...maybe the most famous and perfectly succinct soccer quote out there. Haven't read Goldblatt's book but I've heard good things about it.

if you're into the history I highly encourage Inverting the Pyramid. Wilson is sort of the pinnacle of tactical analysis and the way he discusses the tactical evolution of the game through key moments in the past is fascinating.

Out of curiosity, do you have a club team you support?

[Reisen]

Wow, what a cruel game and crazy sequence of events. CR is robbed of a goal by a superb save, then gets a breakaway and a perfect ball by Donovan to Brek Shea.

[burnspbesq]

Holden has been good in the Gold Cup, but to my eyes Diskerud has been better, and Corona has also been impressive.

Right now, I think our best eleven, when everyone is healthy, is a 4-2-3-1 with F. Johnson, Besler, Gonzalez, and Cherundolo at the back; Bradley and Diskerud; Donovan, Dempsey, and Corona; and Jozy up front.

[blazindw]

Holden has been good in the Gold Cup, but to my eyes Diskerud has been better, and Corona has also been impressive.

Right now, I think our best eleven, when everyone is healthy, is a 4-2-3-1 with F. Johnson, Besler, Gonzalez, and Cherundolo at the back; Bradley and Diskerud; Donovan, Dempsey, and Corona; and Jozy up front.

I love Mix and Joey Beers (Corona) and how they play, but no way do they replace Jones and Zusi/Holden in the main starting 11. Both of them would be interesting options off the bench, but right now, I'm not seeing many players that are playing someone off the plane to Brazil. That's not to say they're playing poorly, but our WCQ squad recently has been that good.

[JohnGalt]

I love Mix and Joey Beers (Corona) and how they play, but no way do they replace Jones and Zusi/Holden in the main starting 11. Both of them would be interesting options off the bench, but right now, I'm not seeing many players that are playing someone off the plane to Brazil. That's not to say they're playing poorly, but our WCQ squad recently has been that good.

I'm curious to know why you think Jones is so indispensable in the starting 11. I've often thought Bradley and Jones' skillsets are too similar, and even though Jones is clearly asked to do the holding role more than Bradley, it has resulted in them oftentimes stepping on each other's toes. Also...like I mentioned before...I think the front 4 has 5 real contenders...Altidore (in fairness there's only 1 position he can play), Donovan, Dempsey, Holden, and Zusi...out of that group and assuming Stu is 100% fit...Zusi must be the one to make way, no?

[blazindw]

I'm curious to know why you think Jones is so indispensable in the starting 11. I've often thought Bradley and Jones' skillsets are too similar, and even though Jones is clearly asked to do the holding role more than Bradley, it has resulted in them oftentimes stepping on each other's toes. Also...like I mentioned before...I think the front 4 has 5 real contenders...Altidore (in fairness there's only 1 position he can play), Donovan, Dempsey, Holden, and Zusi...out of that group and assuming Stu is 100% fit...Zusi must be the one to make way, no?

Jones can play in Klinsy's system. Like you said, he knows his role and can play the holding role, allowing Bradley to press up. Klinsy also likes to ride a lineup till the wheels fall off. That means Zusi in the 11 and Stu coming in as supersub off the bench, which I can handle. Donovan's problem right now: he is playing excellent soccer, in my opinion, but given what the lineup has been doing, who does he replace? I don't have the answer to that either. I think he makes the 23 in place of a fringe player that we've called up for the past WCQs (like Kljestan or even Brad Evans - yea, he started a couple matches, but I don't think he's a solid part of the 23), but in the 11, he's not replacing Jones or Bradley or Deuce. That leaves Zusi, and I just don't think Klinsy makes that move right now. Also, having Stu and Donovan come on in the 60th minute to press an already tired defense is something that I'd love to see. I think that would create fits for Costa Rica or Mexico in September.

[toughbuff1]

Put Donovan on the left wing instead of Eddie Johnson. Jozy up top, Dempsey right behind him with Landon and Zusi on the wings, and Jones and Bradley at the defensive midfielder positions.

[Reisen]

Are we really debating whether arguably the best player in the history of the USMNT, still young and in form, is going to be left out of the starting 11 at the next World Cup?

I like Jermaine Jones. A lot. But I don't see him starting over Donovan in Brazil, nor do I see Zusi, and I think even Holden is debatable (depending on health and fitness).

Qualifying, sure, and I think Klinnsman is sending a message / motivating / sparking a fire in Donovan. But I expect to see Donovan on the field when the first whistle blows next summer.