Star Wars versus Star Trek

[EarlJam]

Fred T. Flintstone?

Okay, joking, but that's a great trivia question so I'll take a serious (non-Googled) stab at it:

T.J. Hooker?

-EarlJam

[knights68]

BTW: James T. Kirk is one of two major TV characters with the middle name Tiberius. Anybody care to guess at the identity of the other?

Was it Capn't Pike?
I dunno, I haven't googled it yet.

[knights68]

I have the answer, but will withhold it simply for entertainment value to see how many others guess this answer.

[The Gordog]

This thread has got to be something that Cliff and Norm and the guys argued over beer at Cheers (Sweatiest movie? Cool Hand Luke!)

Well, as a confirmed geek, put me in the Star Trek column. I did like the early Star Wars, but they lost me midway through No. 3 (or is it No. 6) -- anyway, when the Ewoks showed up (I could see the price tags from the merchandising tie-ins hanging down).

I've never been sure whether Star Wars merely went to cr*p or if I outgrew it. Star Trek, on the other hand, has never gotten old. I would rank it:

1. TNG
2. TOS
3. Deep Space Nine
4. Movies 2-4-6
5. Enterprise
6. Movies 1-3
7. Voyager
8. The rest of the movies

Star Wars was good, old-fashioned space opera until it dissolved into thinly disguised political parallel. I love the original music and the special effects are largely superior.

Star Trek, because there's so much of it, contains an awful lot of drivel. But it also includes a myriad of textured, complex characters and some REAL science fiction. At its best -- City on the Edge of Forever; Yesterday's Enterprise; Best of Both Worlds; Inner Light; and the grossly underrated DS9 Episode Far Beyond the Stars -- Star Trek is as good as sci fi ever created for TV or film.

There is also some wonderful comedy ... was anything in the Star Wars universe as funny as The Trouble with Tribbles or the DS9 followup, Trials and Tribulations, or the episode (I can't remember the title) when the Willie Mays baseball card Jake is trying to buy for his father's birthday becomes the key to an intersteller conspiracy?

As for the captains -- I'm a Picard man. He functions more like a REAL starship captain would function -- someone whose mission is to explore and learn and not take every excuse to fight. Kirk was fun, but the idea that a starship captain would abandon his command every week to lead an away party is pretty irresponsible. I almost admire Sisko -- great job in an impossible situation.

BTW: James T. Kirk is one of two major TV characters with the middle name Tiberius. Anybody care to guess at the identity of the other?

I agree with all of this except your ranking of the movies/series which I can't intermingle. Here's my take:

Series:
TNG
TOS
DS9
Voyager
Enterprise (I'll admit I didn't watch much before giving up on it. It may very well be better than Voyager.)

Movies:
2 (The Wrath of Khan)
8 (First Contact)
6 (The Undiscovered Country)
7 (Generations)
4 (The Voyage Home)
3 (The Search for Spock)
9 (Insurrection)
10 (Nemesis)
1 (The Motion Picture)
5 (Where No Man Has Gone Before)(The One Shatner Directed)

[Bluedawg]

Which do you like and why?

Is it the special effects? or is it the characters?..the lovible Chewie or the ever evolving Data. The romance between Riker and Troy or Leia and Han? Lightsabers or Phasers? And lets not forget the musical score of both...

What are your thoughts?

I love all of the Star Treks. When I look at the old star wars movies i realize how bad the dialog really was.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

If we were only counting movies SW would win hands down as ST has had only one great (Wrath of Kahn) and several bad (The Voyage Home, Final Frontier).

Oh and Benjamin Sisco could kick both Kirk and Rikers at the same time.

The Voyage Home bad? Are you kidding me? The subtle tongue in cheek humor throughout that movie made it the best one of the series, certainly the most enjoyable. It didn't have the action and suspense of Wrath of Kahn, which I would rank as my second favorite, but if I could only watch one, it would be Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home.

[Olympic Fan]

Since nobody has answered by trivia, I thought I'd give the answer. There was a hint in my original post when I talked about this thread being like a debate at Cheers.

Cheers bartender Woodrow "Woody" Boyd's middle name was Tiberius, the same as captain James Tiberius Kirk.

And BTW, I definitely agree that Star Trek Movie No. 4 -- The Voyage Home -- was one of the best films of the series. The humor was terrific and it explored a very interesting theme (no, I'm not talking about save the whales).

In Wrath of Khan, Spock sacrificed himself to save his shipmates. The theme was a very basic one that we all understand -- The good of the many is more important than the good of the one.

That's very true, but at the same time, it's not enough. Taken to its extreme, that thinking leads to a "1984" or a "Nazi" state -- the good of the state (the many) is more important than the good of the one (the individual).

I think it was Emerson who suggested that the test of true intelligence is the ability to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time. Well, that's what Trek does in movies 3 and 4. They follow the declaration of Movie 2 with an illustration of the contradictory point -- the good of the one is more important than the good of the many.

In three, the crew risk their careers to save Spock and in 4 they risk their mission to save Checkov. The whales may be a somewhat heavy-handed parable -- their extinction may seem like a small thing, but it could have terrible consequences. They illustrate a case where protection of the one (or the few) is actually in the long-term interest of the many.

That's true in many cases. It's an issue we deal with all the time.

For instance, last night I'm watching MSNBC and they're debating the wisdom of continuing the rescue attempt for the nine trapped miners in Utah. They're probably dead and three rescuers have been killed going after them. In this case, which principle applies -- the good of the many? of the good of the few? Is it worth risking more lives on the faint chance that one or two might be alive?

It's a terrible dilemma in real life that I think Star Trek wrestled with in fiction.

[alteran]

Ummmmm... this should not be a question. The answer is clearly Stars Wars. I'll take the former for all the points above.

"Yes, your highnessness."
"I am not a committee!"
"I love you" ... "I know."

And the music just simply blows ST out of the water and 300 miles inland.

All Han Solo, or Han Solo-related.

This is totally a chocolate versus vanilla argument-- one likes what one likes.

I'm sorry, but the last three episodes of Star Wars were pretty vanilla to me-- give me the chocolate!

[alteran]

When I look at the old star wars movies i realize how bad the dialog really was.

LUKE (WHINING): But I was going into Toshi Station to pick up some power converters!
OWEN: You can waste time with your friends when your chores are done. Now come on, get to it!

That clanged in my mind when I first heard it at age twelve, and it hasn't improved with age.