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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Kelly looks better now than he did before he was injured. Maybe the injury just gave him time to focus on some moves/shots. I just feel as though I'm looking at a different offensive weapon with different defensive focus and awareness. The moves are different and better. He was good before, but I'm seeing a blossoming. Dude could explode all over the NCAAT, bringing MP2 and the guards with him as a result of the attention teams need to pay to him.

    Or maybe I need to stop hyperventilating after only two games back.

  2. #42

    Senior Night

    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    Relative to his normal disdainful schtick, I thought Elmore had generally toned it down a bit overall tonight. Had to get a stupid dig in at the end thou, of course. Just dopey.

    Great to see RK integrating more and more. Obviously the D and the communication was much better in the second half. I really like it when (second half) the guards get very active on the boards too. That stats undervalued it a little in this one as I saw at least a couple times - I think it was Cook - guards keeping (tipping) the rebound alive. Though a "big" might have ultimately corralled it, the guards were what prevented VPI from getting it first.

    Was really surprised to see Ryan and Mason play so many minutes, but I assume K was just using the opportunity to build up some endurance. When you're up by 25+ with three minutes left, there's really no other reason to have four starters still in. (If I were an opposing fan, that would really torque me.)

    Great home finale for the four seniors.
    On senior night, you play your seniors and take them out one at a time to allow the fans to show appreciation.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    Kelly looks better now than he did before he was injured. Maybe the injury just gave him time to focus on some moves/shots. I just feel as though I'm looking at a different offensive weapon with different defensive focus and awareness. The moves are different and better. He was good before, but I'm seeing a blossoming. Dude could explode all over the NCAAT, bringing MP2 and the guards with him as a result of the attention teams need to pay to him.

    Or maybe I need to stop hyperventilating after only two games back.
    I agree with the fact that Ryan looks really good. Maybe it is the fact that teams haven't really game planned to stop him. However, as you point out, if our opponents do that it should result in better offensive opportunities for the rest of our arsenal.

    I like to think of it as cautiously hyperventilating
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

    "Duke is never the underdog" - Quinn Cook

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Queen City
    Nothing much for me to say that hasn't already been said. Loved Kelly's second performance after injury. He's back, and he is a BEAST all of the sudden. Love it. Seth was cold at first, but like I've seen in many games once he (and most shooters) saw the ball go through the net a couple of times, he warmed up quite nicely. I was glad to Mason start being the Mason we love in the second half.

    Also, I loved the Crazies chanting "We want Todd!" once the senior starters were checking out.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC

    Outstanding senior night for a great class

    After watching the first half, I would have never believed that we would win by 28 points. I thought we really locked down on the defensive end.

    1) Good to see Ryan play well in the second games. Was a little concerned that after the performance in Miami and his first game back, he would be a game-tired. That didn't happen - huge credit to him.

    2) Erick Green is really, really good.

    3) 5 assists each from Ryan and Mason. I especially like Ryan's dump off to a wide open Quinn for a layup. I'm not sure anyone else has two big men with the passing skills of our guys.

    A nice win. Now lets kick Caroina's butt...

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tennessee

    Zafirovsky?

    Isn't Zafirovsky a senior? Isn't it a tradition that seniors start? Not only did he not start he wasn't even mentioned, nor in the photo op. I'm not sure what this means, but I don't think I like it.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    Isn't Zafirovsky a senior? Isn't it a tradition that seniors start? Not only did he not start he wasn't even mentioned, nor in the photo op. I'm not sure what this means, but I don't think I like it.
    It means that he is coming back next year for his 5th and actual final year.

  8. #48

    Continued adjustments to make

    I notice that, with Ryan back, Rasheed seems a little unsure of his role. This is something that will work itself out, but he seemed to hesitate on pulling the trigger on shooting or driving - something he didn't have the luxury to do for about 13 games. In fact, I got the sense on offense (when the starting five were in) that it is an embarrassment of riches. Inside? Outside? Seth? Ryan? etc. That is a good thing, but still is a factor to work out.

    First half defense - terrible help defense on the ball screen. I noticed that Ryan, early in the second half, played it right and forced Eric Green back and wide - then recovered to his man. After Ryan did that twice, Mason did it. While Green still got some, it seemed much more difficult for him in the second half. The rest of the team was just shut out.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by jcastranio View Post
    First half defense - terrible help defense on the ball screen. I noticed that Ryan, early in the second half, played it right and forced Eric Green back and wide - then recovered to his man. After Ryan did that twice, Mason did it. While Green still got some, it seemed much more difficult for him in the second half. The rest of the team was just shut out.
    Ryan hedged well in the first half, too. When Green got into the lane, it was almost always Mason who was attempting to hedge and recover. In the second half, although Mason still had a few lapses, both he and Ryan hedged on Green much longer, leaving the offensively challenged VaTech screen setters open in favor of crowding Green and the other guards. Good adjustment by the staff and the players. This doesn't work against a team like Miami when Kadji sets a screen because he's a threat to drain threes, but against a team like VaTech it's a great move.

    Overall, that was a great game and a really good second half. I was glad to see Mason play strong in the post in the second half. Seth was doing his thing, and Ryan looks like he took an offseason off to refine his skills and is now back for a 5th year. The second half defense was excellent and I hope we see more of that in the coming days. Offensively, with Ryan back, we may very well have the best offense in the country. At the very least, we will give Indiana a run for the money.

    If I have any complaints, it would be that Mason's hedging has been wildly inconsistent for a while, now, which has made dribble penetration really easy. The other complaint is that Quinn needs to do a better job using ball screens on the perimeter. Making his defender run into a Josh Hairston pick a few times might make that defender just a little gun-shy. That can only be a good thing. If Mason can cut off 2-4 more drives per game with his hedging, i think it will make a big difference with our overall defense.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jcastranio View Post
    I notice that, with Ryan back, Rasheed seems a little unsure of his role. This is something that will work itself out, but he seemed to hesitate on pulling the trigger on shooting or driving - something he didn't have the luxury to do for about 13 games. In fact, I got the sense on offense (when the starting five were in) that it is an embarrassment of riches. Inside? Outside? Seth? Ryan? etc. That is a good thing, but still is a factor to work out.

    First half defense - terrible help defense on the ball screen. I noticed that Ryan, early in the second half, played it right and forced Eric Green back and wide - then recovered to his man. After Ryan did that twice, Mason did it. While Green still got some, it seemed much more difficult for him in the second half. The rest of the team was just shut out.
    Good comments.

    Yeah, I think Rasheed will get some attention in practice the next few days, likely a combination of criticism and encouragement. The main negative is that when things aren't going well for him on offense, the rest of his game can suffer. It happened early in the year when he wasn't shooting well, and became unproductive in other areas; after not starting for a game, he made adjustments and played very well. Last night, he wasn't going for rebounds or playing good defense and sat on the bench for long spells. To his credit, he came in late and hit a couple of shots.

    Ryan needs conditioning, but it appears the time off may be a positive factor in his seeing the game better and realizing just what an offensive (and defensive) force he can be for this team. Mason mostly needs some rest and rejuvenation IMO. I expect him to perform well Saturday and in the post-season.

    With some good practice time, and rest worked in, this team can improve significantly in the next few weeks IMO. They'll be fun to watch.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Good comments.

    Yeah, I think Rasheed will get some attention in practice the next few days, likely a combination of criticism and encouragement. The main negative is that when things aren't going well for him on offense, the rest of his game can suffer. It happened early in the year when he wasn't shooting well, and became unproductive in other areas; after not starting for a game, he made adjustments and played very well. Last night, he wasn't going for rebounds or playing good defense and sat on the bench for long spells. To his credit, he came in late and hit a couple of shots.

    Ryan needs conditioning, but it appears the time off may be a positive factor in his seeing the game better and realizing just what an offensive (and defensive) force he can be for this team. Mason mostly needs some rest and rejuvenation IMO. I expect him to perform well Saturday and in the post-season.

    With some good practice time, and rest worked in, this team can improve significantly in the next few weeks IMO. They'll be fun to watch.
    Good comments from both of you about Rasheed. One thing I noticed about his play on offense is that earlier in the season when he went through a mini-slump, he often drove the lane and tried to get all the way to the rim, even when he didn't have an angle. This would result in a really difficult shot or a turnover. He adjusted and started using his pull-up jumper from 15 feet more frequently, which opened the game up for him. It also helped him get back to facilitating for others, as he kept his head up and played under control. The past few games, he seems to be reverting to putting his head down and driving all the way to the rim no matter what. In fact, I think he's gone two games now without even attempting a pull-up jumper. He's only attempted threes and layups/runners/floaters. That mid-range jumper is a killer weapon for him that he has used effectively at various points this season. I hope he brings it back again.

    As for his defense, he seems to be moving a bit more slowly through screens. it could be a combo of being a freshman and wearing down and the somewhat insane slate of games without much rest Duke has had, recently. Hopefully the extra time off this week will help him mentally and physically and he'll be ready to lock down PJ Hairston and Bullock come Saturday.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    Good comments from both of you about Rasheed. One thing I noticed about his play on offense is that earlier in the season when he went through a mini-slump, he often drove the lane and tried to get all the way to the rim, even when he didn't have an angle. This would result in a really difficult shot or a turnover. He adjusted and started using his pull-up jumper from 15 feet more frequently, which opened the game up for him. It also helped him get back to facilitating for others, as he kept his head up and played under control. The past few games, he seems to be reverting to putting his head down and driving all the way to the rim no matter what. In fact, I think he's gone two games now without even attempting a pull-up jumper. He's only attempted threes and layups/runners/floaters. That mid-range jumper is a killer weapon for him that he has used effectively at various points this season. I hope he brings it back again.

    As for his defense, he seems to be moving a bit more slowly through screens. it could be a combo of being a freshman and wearing down and the somewhat insane slate of games without much rest Duke has had, recently. Hopefully the extra time off this week will help him mentally and physically and he'll be ready to lock down PJ Hairston and Bullock come Saturday.
    I agree with this, but I think the most noticeable thing from the game last night was his non-confidence in his three-point shot. There were plenty of times when someone would drive (Cook/Kelly/Mason) and kick out to him for a pretty open three. He'd hesitate on the shot and essentially lose the open three he had. While he isn't a knock-down shooter like Curry, I think he needs to take those shots. The more people respect that he can and will take threes (and make them), the more open his driving lanes will be. Although if he continues to improve his floater (which I believe to be more important than his mid-range jumper at this point given his style of play), he'll be able to contribute a lot more.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada

    Rest

    I'm glad the guys are going to get some much-needed rest. They've played 3 games in 6 days. Now they have only 1 game in almost a week-and-a-half. Anyone remember the name of that "school" they're playing? It's the one that gives out A's for correspondence courses involving no correspondence. Anyhoo...

    Fatigue is a subtle thing, and it can be cumulative. It's both physical and mental. I think that may be part of the reason Sheed didn't have any "spunk" last night (K's word, not mine). I thought Mason looked leaden during parts of the Miami game, though he fought through it. Seth took a knee to his nagging shin last night, though he says he'll be alright. And Ryan still has that foot. No one says it's 100%.

    We've seen in the past two games what a little rest can do for a player's game. It's an underestimated variable this time of year for all teams. This team has been playing at an extremely high level with a pretty brutal schedule the past week. Now they have fewer games for a bit, and they won't have to travel further than Greensboro for more than two weeks.

    Carolina is always huge, and it would be so very sweet to ruin their Senior Night. But after that our NCAAT run depends more on adequate rest than any other single factor I can think of. Except for injuries of course, but even those are more likely when the player is fatigued.

    Rest up, gents. Then pound the hated holes, and rest some more. Then bring home that ACC trophy and some netting from Atlanta. Color me a believer. Our chances are as good as any team's.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Yeah, I think Rasheed will get some attention in practice the next few days, likely a combination of criticism and encouragement. The main negative is that when things aren't going well for him on offense, the rest of his game can suffer. It happened early in the year when he wasn't shooting well, and became unproductive in other areas; after not starting for a game, he made adjustments and played very well. Last night, he wasn't going for rebounds or playing good defense and sat on the bench for long spells. To his credit, he came in late and hit a couple of shots.
    Worth noting that the same thing happened in the Miami game too. I actually found it sort of impressive in a way, especially from a freshman: that he had such a poor game, then made a few great plays to go take us from a 3 point lead to a 7 point lead.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    Kelly looks better now than he did before he was injured.
    This was my first thought as well, until I remembered how Ryan was playing just before he was injured. In his three games in January, Ryan put up 18 and 7 against Davidson, then 22 and 4 (in just 18 minutes!) against Wake, and before he got hurt he scored 12 points with 6 boards in a half (a half in which Duke only scored 25 points total and Clemson had just 10). So in those last two games he had 34 points in 37 minutes played (not that far off from the 36 points in 32 minutes he pasted on Miami, in fact if you factor in that Duke only had 29 possessions in the first half against Clemson, his ppp was probably better in the Wake and Clemson games than it was against Miami). In the nine games after we got back from the Islands and before he got hurt, Ryan shot 21 for 31 from three-land (68%).

    So maybe it's more accurate to say he picked up right where he left off. Which in and of itself is pretty remarkable.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    This was my first thought as well, until I remembered how Ryan was playing just before he was injured. In his three games in January, Ryan put up 18 and 7 against Davidson, then 22 and 4 (in just 18 minutes!) against Wake, and before he got hurt he scored 12 points with 6 boards in a half (a half in which Duke only scored 25 points total and Clemson had just 10). So in those last two games he had 34 points in 37 minutes played (not that far off from the 36 points in 32 minutes he pasted on Miami, in fact if you factor in that Duke only had 29 possessions in the first half against Clemson, his ppp was probably better in the Wake and Clemson games than it was against Miami). In the nine games after we got back from the Islands and before he got hurt, Ryan shot 21 for 31 from three-land (68%).

    So maybe it's more accurate to say he picked up right where he left off. Which in and of itself is pretty remarkable.
    True all that. But consider HOW he has played. I've been looking at the tapes, and his game has changed. Sometimes we get stat-obsessed, and there is a lot more to look at.

    What I see is a Ryan Kelly with better moves, both offensively and defensively, than he had before. His hedging is better, his aggressiveness on defense is better, and he's killing people with that up-and-under move. Other examples abound. That may or may not result in stats, depending on teammates and team needs. But I think his game has developed to a higher level, at least based on the limited sample we have so far. As I've said in other posts, I wouldn't discount the value of rest.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    True all that. But consider HOW he has played. I've been looking at the tapes, and his game has changed. Sometimes we get stat-obsessed, and there is a lot more to look at.

    What I see is a Ryan Kelly with better moves, both offensively and defensively, than he had before. His hedging is better, his aggressiveness on defense is better, and he's killing people with that up-and-under move. Other examples abound. That may or may not result in stats, depending on teammates and team needs. But I think his game has developed to a higher level, at least based on the limited sample we have so far. As I've said in other posts, I wouldn't discount the value of rest.
    You may be right. But I also think a lot of us (not necessarily you) may be forgetting at just how high a level he was playing before he got hurt.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    True all that. But consider HOW he has played. I've been looking at the tapes, and his game has changed. Sometimes we get stat-obsessed, and there is a lot more to look at.

    What I see is a Ryan Kelly with better moves, both offensively and defensively, than he had before. His hedging is better, his aggressiveness on defense is better, and he's killing people with that up-and-under move. Other examples abound. That may or may not result in stats, depending on teammates and team needs. But I think his game has developed to a higher level, at least based on the limited sample we have so far. As I've said in other posts, I wouldn't discount the value of rest.
    It almost seems like the forced bench time allowed him to objectively analyze what the team most needed upon his return and he has been fulfilling it. On the offensive end, it seems like he basically has assumed that he should be the first option and is being super aggressive hunting for his scoring opportunities - which is awesome! If and when opposing defenses adjust, it'll open things up for everyone else.

    I also agree with Kedsy that, when he got hurt, he was playing as well, if not better, then anyone on the team. He kind of started slow this year and got eclipsed by Mason but Kelly was surging when he hurt his foot.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    It almost seems like the forced bench time allowed him to objectively analyze what the team most needed upon his return and he has been fulfilling it. On the offensive end, it seems like he basically has assumed that he should be the first option and is being super aggressive hunting for his scoring opportunities - which is awesome! If and when opposing defenses adjust, it'll open things up for everyone else.

    I also agree with Kedsy that, when he got hurt, he was playing as well, if not better, then anyone on the team. He kind of started slow this year and got eclipsed by Mason but Kelly was surging when he hurt his foot.
    People tend to downplay the mental part of basketball. I think Kelly has crossed that barrier where he is now ready to be a pro. The college game has slowed down where it is pretty simple- he knows what he can do and he now a man playing against boys in the mental aspects of the game. Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much. He is now understanding his college career is nearly over and is playing the game with a new found openness and freedom. He simply looks like the smartest guy out there and is not expending excess energy to get things accomplished. Shane, Laettner, Hill, Smith, Redick, etc all did this in their senior years. In many ways, Green for Va Tech has reached this level. While Kelly will not get his jersey retired- he is a gifted player who got better every year.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    People tend to downplay the mental part of basketball. I think Kelly has crossed that barrier where he is now ready to be a pro. The college game has slowed down where it is pretty simple- he knows what he can do and he now a man playing against boys in the mental aspects of the game. Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much. He is now understanding his college career is nearly over and is playing the game with a new found openness and freedom. He simply looks like the smartest guy out there and is not expending excess energy to get things accomplished. Shane, Laettner, Hill, Smith, Redick, etc all did this in their senior years. In many ways, Green for Va Tech has reached this level. While Kelly will not get his jersey retired- he is a gifted player who got better every year.
    Very well said. He is playing with supreme confidence.

    Here's an interesting stat look from last night, name which 3 players put up these lines:
    14 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists
    14 pts, 6 rebs, 2 assts
    18 pts, 9 rebs, 5 assts

    That would be Mason, Quinn, and Ryan respectively. Did our guard play like a big or did our bigs play like guards? Does it matter?

    I stumbled across that anomaly because it felt like Quinn played a really effective game and I wanted to see how the stat lines supported that feeling. I was surprised at his relatively small number of assists and his relatively high number of rebounds. He is very close to being a very good point guard - greybeard had some good observations in his earlier post - he just needs to be more consistent which I think will come with greater focus. I am tempted to say I'd like to see a little less swagger from him on routine plays, but I fear I'll start sounding more stodgy then I actually am. He could use one of those video highlight reels that show him over-reacting to what he perceives to be bad calls - the head hanging and such - but I know I feel really good when he lets one fly from 3, and now, as others have said, I want him to drive harder off those high screens to put more pressure on the D.

    Speaking of driving hard off screens, Erick Green is a ridiculously gifted scorer. I bow down.

    The ACC season really shook out well for Duke. We had an easier patch right after Ryan went down (save for the State game), faced some insanely intense road atmospheres (BC, Maryland, Virginia and Wake) and have faced some teams late playing their best ball (Miami, Virginia, and UNC one presumes). The ACC might not be the Big 10, but we've had some solid competition, especially on the road. UNC will be really tough - they will certainly try to run us into the ground.

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