MBB: Duke 85, Virginia Tech 57 Post-Game Thread

[Saratoga2]

I'm glad the guys are going to get some much-needed rest. They've played 3 games in 6 days. Now they have only 1 game in almost a week-and-a-half. Anyone remember the name of that "school" they're playing? It's the one that gives out A's for correspondence courses involving no correspondence. Anyhoo...

Fatigue is a subtle thing, and it can be cumulative. It's both physical and mental. I think that may be part of the reason Sheed didn't have any "spunk" last night (K's word, not mine). I thought Mason looked leaden during parts of the Miami game, though he fought through it. Seth took a knee to his nagging shin last night, though he says he'll be alright. And Ryan still has that foot. No one says it's 100%.

We've seen in the past two games what a little rest can do for a player's game. It's an underestimated variable this time of year for all teams. This team has been playing at an extremely high level with a pretty brutal schedule the past week. Now they have fewer games for a bit, and they won't have to travel further than Greensboro for more than two weeks.

Carolina is always huge, and it would be so very sweet to ruin their Senior Night. But after that our NCAAT run depends more on adequate rest than any other single factor I can think of. Except for injuries of course, but even those are more likely when the player is fatigued.

Rest up, gents. Then pound the hated holes, and rest some more. Then bring home that ACC trophy and some netting from Atlanta. Color me a believer. Our chances are as good as any team's.

The truth is that Mason had a series of games that were not up to his previous ones after Ryan went down. At that point, he was often doubled, so his offense was not very effective and we heard coach K say that it was important for Mason to stay in the games ( More important than playing defense?). So Mason was being manhandled by defenses and was getting mixed messages on playing defense. Last night people were saying his movement looked leaden in the first half and then he looked more like the good Mason in the second half. Since he should have been more tired near the end of the game, it doesn't compute that physical tiredness played a part in the difference in performance. As far as mental fatigue is concerned I don't understand how that works. He is a great athlete, smart young man and is gifted. Go out and play hard and the coaches should encourage that. I think Mason truly had a shot as player of the year, but his performance over many games was sub-par. That's okay, he still is a very important part of this team and needs to be encouraged to perform at his best.

[Kedsy]

Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much.

As a freshman, Ryan played 91 minutes in 28 games after January 1 (3.3 mpg), and most of those minutes were in garbage time. I'm not sure the issue was excessive deference.

I agree that even then he seemed to have the potential to eventually end up as a special player. It's cool that it really has ended up that way.

[jimsumner]

As a freshman, Ryan played 91 minutes in 28 games after January 1 (3.3 mpg), and most of those minutes were in garbage time. I'm not sure the issue was excessive deference.

I agree that even then he seemed to have the potential to eventually end up as a special player. It's cool that it really has ended up that way.

Kelly was really skinny as a freshman. He needed to develop his body to handle the rigors of ACC basketball. He also was on a frontcourt that included Kyle Singler, Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek, Miles Plumlee and Mason Plumlee. Only so much PT to go around.

[freshmanjs]

Kelly was really skinny as a freshman. He needed to develop his body to handle the rigors of ACC basketball. He also was on a frontcourt that included Kyle Singler, Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek, Miles Plumlee and Mason Plumlee. Only so much PT to go around.

Kelly's career arc is a great reminder that we need to have patience with these guys and the coaching staff. Look at Erick Green and how far he's come each year. I fully expect that Murphy and Jefferson will be really important players for Duke over the next 3 years (and that can happen even though they didn't get a huge amount of playing time this year when Ryan was healthy).

[Kedsy]

Kelly was really skinny as a freshman. He needed to develop his body to handle the rigors of ACC basketball. He also was on a frontcourt that included Kyle Singler, Lance Thomas, Brian Zoubek, Miles Plumlee and Mason Plumlee. Only so much PT to go around.

Oh, I know. I also think the college game was just a bit too fast for Ryan as well his freshman year. But the potential was there. At the time, I predicted a Tom Gugliotta type of progression for Ryan. He didn't quite get there, but to me it seems like a similar arc. The progress he's made has been wonderful to watch.

[Zeke]

It means that he is coming back next year for his 5th and actual final year.

Thanks, I thought this was his last year.

[TruBlu]

Speaking of driving hard off screens, Erick Green is a ridiculously gifted scorer. I bow down.

Are you trying to make up to Len Elmore for Erick not getting a standing ovation in Cameron?

[Billy Dat]

Are you trying to make up to Len Elmore for Erick not getting a standing ovation in Cameron?

Guilty as charged. I also meant to laud his tenure as the CEO of iHoops
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...es/iHoops.aspx

[greybeard]

Good comments from both of you about Rasheed. One thing I noticed about his play on offense is that earlier in the season when he went through a mini-slump, he often drove the lane and tried to get all the way to the rim, even when he didn't have an angle. This would result in a really difficult shot or a turnover. He adjusted and started using his pull-up jumper from 15 feet more frequently, which opened the game up for him. It also helped him get back to facilitating for others, as he kept his head up and played under control. The past few games, he seems to be reverting to putting his head down and driving all the way to the rim no matter what. In fact, I think he's gone two games now without even attempting a pull-up jumper. He's only attempted threes and layups/runners/floaters. That mid-range jumper is a killer weapon for him that he has used effectively at various points this season. I hope he brings it back again.

As for his defense, he seems to be moving a bit more slowly through screens. it could be a combo of being a freshman and wearing down and the somewhat insane slate of games without much rest Duke has had, recently. Hopefully the extra time off this week will help him mentally and physically and he'll be ready to lock down PJ Hairston and Bullock come Saturday.

1. Rasheed might be really, really tired, perhaps mentally more than physically.

2. In Kelly's absence, he was asked to and did play with incredible intensity on the defensive end and look to score as a second/third option from the exterior. This might well be impacting negatively on his game right now. In addition, with Ryan back with his new very effective mid range game together with his shooting 3s with remarkable accuracy, Rasheed is pretty far down the food chain on offense; among, the starters, last with considerable space between him and Cook, the guy immediately above him on the peeking order..

3. In these circumstances, Rasheed might be holding back on offense situationally on K's direction.

[ArtVandelay]

This thread is way too positive. Where is all the complaining from the Miami in-game thread? I'll contribute my main gripes:

1. Ball screen defense, still. Mason has been particularly frustrating to watch lately on this score. He is just way too slow on his hedges. He either does not get out quick enough, rendering it ineffective, or he is waaaaayyy slow recovering back to his man. This didn't hurt us too much last night, but there seem to be too many times where our defense is scrambling around to adjust because we can't seem to defend a simply high ball screen.

2. Not protecting the rim. Once the initial man gets beat on dribble penetration, we aren't doing a good job on the second line of defense. Hopefully Kelly will help with this, as he is our best help-side defender. But Mason seems tentative. He doesn't try to block shots and makes half-assed efforts to take charges, which never go well. Josh also wants to take a charge every time, although at least he is pretty good at it. I would like to see our help defense actually try to defend the basket and at least make it hard for the other team to get a lay-up for a change. I'm not too worried about picking up a few fouls here and there. We need to put the fear of God (i.e. Mason) in people who want to drive into the teeth of our D.

3. Passing off dribble penetration. Rasheed and Quinn both can get to the basket, but they both are trying to force very difficult shots around the bucket. To Quinn's credit, the kid can really put crazy spin on the ball. Did anyone notice that one layup he almost made where the ball almost went over the top of the backboard? Anyway. Quinn is actually good at getting to the basket, but it would be great if he could keep his head up a bit more to facilitate easy baskets for teammates. Amile seems to have a knack for making himself available for such passes. I know he's not going to see much burn at this point, so hopefully others can replicate that. Easier said than done, I know.

4. Getting Mason the ball in scoring position. It seems like teams are doing a better job preventing this lately. Time for K to adjust and make sure he gets his touches. When he catches close to the basket, good things happen more often than not.

Ok, gripe fest over. Nice win last night. Team seems to be re-gelling into early season form with Kelly back. Agreed with other posters that Carolina will be a good test. A true road win would be great for our confidence.

[roywhite]

1. Rasheed might be really, really tired, perhaps mentally more than physically.

2. In Kelly's absence, he was asked to and did play with incredible intensity on the defensive end and look to score as a second/third option from the exterior. This might well be impacting negatively on his game right now. In addition, with Ryan back with his new very effective mid range game together with his shooting 3s with remarkable accuracy, Rasheed is pretty far down the food chain on offense; among, the starters, last with considerable space between him and Cook, the guy immediately above him on the peeking order..

3. In these circumstances, Rasheed might be holding back on offense situationally on K's direction.

Yes, some good points, and it's a long, hard season, esp. for a freshman.

On the scoring balance, gotta love having 5 starters in double figures, with the range from 11.7 to 17.0 points/game
Balanced scoring plus 3 seniors plus Coach K seems like a pretty good basis for tournament success.

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf9/1...DB_OEM_ID=4200

season stats thru 30 games

[Tripping William]

1. Rasheed might be really, really tired, perhaps mentally more than physically.

Maybe, but I will say this. I was at the game last night although on the media side above the rail across from the VT bench. I still noticed something, though. TT started the second half ahead of Sheed, and Sheed hit the floor at the 14:42 mark with Green at the line. Green missed the second free throw and Sheed promptly failed to corral the rebound (letting it go out of bounds on the sideline). Curry then missed a 3-pointer and VaTech got out in transition. Green got a bucket and Sheed fouled him. K promptly subbed Cook back in for Sheed. Once Sheed sat down, K took a knee right in front of him, and had a (ahem) "teaching moment." I could not read lips, but I could read arm gestures & finger points. K was not at all pleased. Sheed sat for 9+ minutes, until the 3:36 mark when the game was out of reach. He seemed less tired at that point.

[Kedsy]

On the scoring balance, gotta love having 5 starters in double figures, with the range from 11.7 to 17.0 points/game
Balanced scoring plus 3 seniors plus Coach K seems like a pretty good basis for tournament success.

I have mentioned in the past the Coach K Duke teams who have had 3 or more seniors getting 15+ minutes a game:

1986, 1989, 1990, 1994, 2006, 2010, and 2013. Nice list to be a part of. (Note that some would include 1995 here, but Coach K didn't coach that team, and if he did I suspect (a) the minute distribution would have been different; and (b) the team might have been more successful.)

Since you bring it up, Roy, the other day Mike Corey mentioned to me that three of Duke's four national championship teams had five guys averaging in double-figures. For those interested, here's the full list of Coach K Duke teams that have performed this feat:

1991, 1992, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2008, and 2013.

Also, in 1999 we had four guys in double figures plus a fifth who averaged 9.9 ppg (and a sixth who averaged 9.1), so maybe you count 1999 too. Any list with 1991, 1992, 1999, 2001, and 2004 on it is a good list in my book, though the inclusion of 2000 and especially 2008 waters down any pie-in-the-sky extrapolation I'd like to draw. Still, interesting precedent for this year's team, now that Ryan Kelly is back.

[gep]

People tend to downplay the mental part of basketball. I think Kelly has crossed that barrier where he is now ready to be a pro. The college game has slowed down where it is pretty simple- he knows what he can do and he now a man playing against boys in the mental aspects of the game. Kelly always had skills but at times lacked the confidence to fully utilize them. As a freshman he deferred too much. He is now understanding his college career is nearly over and is playing the game with a new found openness and freedom. He simply looks like the smartest guy out there and is not expending excess energy to get things accomplished. Shane, Laettner, Hill, Smith, Redick, etc all did this in their senior years. In many ways, Green for Va Tech has reached this level. While Kelly will not get his jersey retired- he is a gifted player who got better every year.

This may be the key point. While Ryan was on the bench, he saw/watched everything happening. Then the video sessions. He did seem VERY comfortable on the court, and seemed to be in the right place at the right time. I look forward to a fun end of season.

[hustleplays]

Oh, I know. I also think the college game was just a bit too fast for Ryan as well his freshman year. But the potential was there. At the time, I predicted a Tom Gugliotta type of progression for Ryan. He didn't quite get there, but to me it seems like a similar arc. The progress he's made has been wonderful to watch.

I have really appreciated the stream of observations [by Kedsy, BillyDat, DukeLifer, Jim Sumner, et al] on Ryan Kelly's game and progress. I recall seeing Ryan at the ProAm summer tournament, when he was a rising frosh. I saw what many saw: A very tall and skinny player, with an above average skill set and a special basketball IQ. His confidence level was hard to read. My sense is that it was reality-based: I have great awareness of the game, above average skills, but I'm not strong and I have a ton to learn. I'm not the greatest athlete, but I can play this game very well. Game on.

I happened to talk that day with Ryan's Mom. She spoke of Ryan's work ethic, and how pleased they were for Ryan to be at Duke, a perfect fit, a place where his high intelligence would be valued and used both on and off the court. I had a very good feeling about Ryan's future at Duke.

What struck me about Ryan's performance against Miami -- in addition to the obvious "one for the ages" productivity -- was how "quiet" it was. We often see major production that appears "quiet." In Ryan's case, his productivity could not at all remain quiet, given the attention focused on him, how he exceeded expectations after his 2nd shot, and given the circumstance and stakes. However, HOW he went about scoring 36 points [on 14 field goal attempts; along with 7 rebounds, an assist, block and 2 steals] was equally if not more remarkable, to me. Ryan seemed so sure and confident in what he did, what he was about to do next. After eight weeks of "inactivity." There were no "highlight" spectaculars, just very efficient, workmanlike proficiency. His shooting stroke was confident and pure. It reminded me of Larry Bird -- not overly athletic, but never ever looking, for a second, like I'm not sure what to do next. Playing just a split second ahead of everybody else. I'm not saying that Ryan is Larry, of course. Just that he may have the same kind of interior view of the game. [Bill Walton had the same, sure real-time awareness of what was happening and what to do next. Bill Russell also comes to mind. Have to say that Kyrie strikes me as having that same "zen" awareness, but I digress. :-) ]

Ryan's performance against VT was totally solid -- confirming that his Miami outing wasn't a fluke. I felt that our team was beginning to reconstitute its identity, with Ryan as a key leader.

A great contemporary pianist, Murray Perahia, had to undergo hand surgery, which kept him away from the piano for many months. While this was agonizing for him at the time, he used this forced inactivity to study Bach's piano works in great depth. He came back to play Bach's piano suites with greater awareness and sensitivity than before. Ryan is a very smart and dedicated basketball player and person. He seems to have used his forced layoff from the court to more deeply internalize the fundamental architecture of the game.

What I also sensed is the impact of Ryan's leadership on the team. He seems to understand our defensive schemes and classic post defense better than anyone else. I don't think that our senior leadership is especially strong, and Ryan's return bolsters our team leadership significantly, on both the offensive and defensive ends.

What good fortune to have one senior team member return to change, potentially, the entire trajectory for March and April. Thank you, Ryan!

And, thank you, trainers, who helped nurse Ryan back to health!

On to Carolina!

[Troublemaker]

This was my first thought as well, until I remembered how Ryan was playing just before he was injured. In his three games in January, Ryan put up 18 and 7 against Davidson, then 22 and 4 (in just 18 minutes!) against Wake, and before he got hurt he scored 12 points with 6 boards in a half (a half in which Duke only scored 25 points total and Clemson had just 10). So in those last two games he had 34 points in 37 minutes played (not that far off from the 36 points in 32 minutes he pasted on Miami, in fact if you factor in that Duke only had 29 possessions in the first half against Clemson, his ppp was probably better in the Wake and Clemson games than it was against Miami). In the nine games after we got back from the Islands and before he got hurt, Ryan shot 21 for 31 from three-land (68%).

So maybe it's more accurate to say he picked up right where he left off. Which in and of itself is pretty remarkable.

Agree completely.

I would go so far as to say that Duke played for two months without its best all-around player, most valuable player, and best vocal captain. That's why Coach K was worried Duke might not make the tournament after Ryan went down.

Ryan was just coming into his own as a great college player when he got injured. If he had stayed healthy the entire season, he would've made one of the All-American teams, imo.

This is why Coach K always emphasizes developing his starters over developing his 8th or 9th man in the rotation. Cases like Ryan Kelly happen where a player can develop from a good starter at the beginning of the season to a great player toward the middle of the season (and now at the end of the season as well).