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  1. #1

    MBB: Duke vs Miami Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

    In the spirit of "next play" I thought I would kick this off. Only about 36 hours away from tip off of what will be a very telling game regarding the rest of our season.

    Obviously, a lot will be made of the game in Coral Gables and the possible return of Ryan Kelly. The gauntlet has been thrown down, and Duke needs to wear their armor to this match. I expect Cameron to be rocking even more than against UNC earlier this season. Should be the stuff memories are made of.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Questions, We Got Questions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Devil_91_92_01_10 View Post
    In the spirit of "next play" I thought I would kick this off. Only about 36 hours away from tip off of what will be a very telling game regarding the rest of our season.

    Obviously, a lot will be made of the game in Coral Gables and the possible return of Ryan Kelly. The gauntlet has been thrown down, and Duke needs to wear their armor to this match. I expect Cameron to be rocking even more than against UNC earlier this season. Should be the stuff memories are made of.
    Here are my questions for Saturday's game:

    1. Which Miami team will show up? The one that sluaghtered us last time or the one that got blown out by Wake?
    2. Which Duke team will show up? The team that won seven ACC home games by an average of 17 points or the team that struggled against Maryland, Virginia, Miami and State on the road?
    3. Will Rasheed rebound from a poor outing against UVa?
    4. Will Ryan (a) play and (b) be a factor?
    5. Will it be raining threes for Duke?



    sagegrouse

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Charlotte, North Carolina
    The gauntlet has definitely been thrown down.

    Mason - You have a beast to deal with. Be the bigger beast.
    Josh/Alex/Amile - Kadji can drain the 3. Stay on him.
    Quinn - Shane Larkin mocked all of us. Destroy him.
    Seth - You're the best senior shooting guard on the court Saturday. Prove it.
    Sheed - You da man. Be da man. Attack mode, all night long.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Well, prior to last night, I was thinking that this could be a "gravy" game (i.e., the rest is gravy). We already weren't going to get the #1 seed in the ACC tourney, so a loss to Miami without Kelly wouldn't hurt too much. But with the UVa loss, this game takes on added importance. We are now clinging to a 1-game lead (without tiebreaker advantage) over UVa, and we have another tough road game against UNC to close out the season.

    Miami loves the pick and roll game. As we saw against UVa, we stink at defending the pick and roll game. We let a guy who can't shoot (Evans) repeatedly get into the lane to create easy buckets. Well, Larkin is MUCH better than Evans - in all facets of the game. We can't defend the pick and roll as poorly as we did last night.

    The one positive is that Sulaimon gets a slightly easier assignment on Scott. I say slightly, because Scott is a veteran and is also really good. But he's a streaky shooter (unlike Harris who is just really good all the time) and can occasionally play out of control. Hopefully a fired up Sulaimon can win that matchup.

    Inside, Mason will have his work cut out for him. He's struggled with Johnson in the past, and Miami can throw waves of bigs at Mason throughout the game.

    At PF, we just have to hope Kadji has an off-night or gets in foul trouble, because neither Jefferson nor Hairston is really capable of guarding him otherwise. This is one (of many) team against whom we could really use Kelly.

    We need Cook to step his game up. As has been mentioned by me and by several other posters, Cook has really fallen off as a playmaker in the past several weeks. In has past 6 games, he has 17 assists and 18 turnovers. That's unacceptable for any PG, but especially for a PG on a team with as many scoring options as we have. I'm not sure why his PG game has regressed, but it is a disturbing trend. And it's the type of thing that can't happen against a team as good as Miami is.

    Hopefully the team can regroup, refocus, and figure out how to play better defense (and better offense) by Saturday. If not, we could be sitting in 3rd in the ACC going into the final week.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Here are my questions for Saturday's game:

    1. Which Miami team will show up? The one that sluaghtered us last time or the one that got blown out by Wake?

    2. Which Duke team will show up? The team that won seven ACC home games by an average of 17 points or the team that struggled against Maryland, Virginia, Miami and State on the road?

    3. Will Rasheed rebound from a poor outing against UVa?

    4. Will Ryan (a) play and (b) be a factor?

    5. Will it be raining threes for Duke?


    sagegrouse
    Just for fun:

    1. This one is easy, it's gotta be somewhere in the middle. There's no way they stomp us that badly in Cameron (unless I'm REALLY overrating us), and there's no way they have that big of a letdown in such a high profile game. They will bring it, but I doubt they roll over us like last time.

    2. Well, the easy answer is, we're at home. We play well at home . . . usually. Duke hardly ever loses 2 in a row. I think we come out with a much better effort than in Charlottesville.

    3. Gotta imagine this is a yes. Rasheed's already been through a slump, and he knows he needs to step up for us to win this game. At the very least, he plays much better defense than last time out. There's pretty much no way he plays worse than on Thursday night, so I'll expect him to be his usual self.

    4a. Doubt it, but would be pleasantly surprised if he did.
    4b. If he does play, it's hard to imagine him coming out guns blazing back 100%, so that's a no.

    5. Basically a coin toss here. Miami defends the 3 well, so I definitely don't see a repeat of our awesome shooting nights against VTech and NC State, but it's also hard to see us winning unless the 3s are falling. I'm calling a 7 point Duke win, so I think we shoot reasonably well, maybe along the lines of a 7 for 15 night.

    As far as what we need to do to come out on top, I think Rick Majerus said it best: "To win: defend, rebound."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    The gauntlet has definitely been thrown down.

    Mason - You have a beast to deal with. Be the bigger beast.
    Josh/Alex/Amile - Kadji can drain the 3. Stay on him.
    Quinn - Shane Larkin mocked all of us. Destroy him.
    Seth - You're the best senior shooting guard on the court Saturday. Prove it.
    Sheed - You da man. Be da man. Attack mode, all night long.
    Dave, I can't give you any more sporks, but this made me smile!

    I know K said Ryan would (probably) not be back until VT or UNC, but has that changed now given how he's progressed in practice?

    Quinn needs to go back to that attacking PG we saw earlier in the year, and Mason needs to turn it up a notch.
    Seth, just keep being a Curry. That'll do!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    Just for fun:

    1. This one is easy, it's gotta be somewhere in the middle. There's no way they stomp us that badly in Cameron (unless I'm REALLY overrating us), and there's no way they have that big of a letdown in such a high profile game. They will bring it, but I doubt they roll over us like last time.

    2. Well, the easy answer is, we're at home. We play well at home . . . usually. Duke hardly ever loses 2 in a row. I think we come out with a much better effort than in Charlottesville.

    3. Gotta imagine this is a yes. Rasheed's already been through a slump, and he knows he needs to step up for us to win this game. At the very least, he plays much better defense than last time out. There's pretty much no way he plays worse than on Thursday night, so I'll expect him to be his usual self.

    4a. Doubt it, but would be pleasantly surprised if he did.
    4b. If he does play, it's hard to imagine him coming out guns blazing back 100%, so that's a no.

    5. Basically a coin toss here. Miami defends the 3 well, so I definitely don't see a repeat of our awesome shooting nights against VTech and NC State, but it's also hard to see us winning unless the 3s are falling. I'm calling a 7 point Duke win, so I think we shoot reasonably well, maybe along the lines of a 7 for 15 night.

    As far as what we need to do to come out on top, I think Rick Majerus said it best: "How to win: Defend and rebound."
    Very good. Now, for extra credit:

    6. Given K's harsh comments about our power forwards (no offensive rebounds, even though they weren't blocked out; two total rebounds; and four points in 37 minutes), what will be the composite line for Josh, Amile and Alex against Miami? Points, offensive rebounds, total rebounds.

    sagegrouse

  8. #8
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    Nolan says it's a no-no to compare situations - Jeff Goodman
    http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...t-four-matchup

    "No one would know better than Nolan Smith. Remember, he was the guy clearly affected the most when Kyrie Irving returned to the court for Duke in the NCAA tournament after missing three months. Smith was forced to slide over to the two-guard spot -- and the Blue Devils wound up getting crushed by Arizona in the Sweet 16.

    Smith said there is no comparison between the situation two seasons ago and the one about to occur in Durham with Ryan Kelly.

    Kelly practiced for the first time since re-injuring his foot back in January -- and could return to game action as soon as this weekend against Miami, although the more likely scenario has him coming back for Senior Night against Virginia Tech on Tuesday.

    "I had the ball the whole year," Smith said. "It wasn't easy for me moving back off the ball for the tournament."

    Smith said that Kelly will have an easy adjustment, and also said his presence will once again make it easier for Mason Plumlee in the post.

    "The ball isn't in Ryan's hands all the time," Smith said. "It's just different for a four or a five-man. Ryan will come in and make shots. He doesn't run the offense."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    Nolan says it's a no-no to compare situations - Jeff Goodman
    http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...t-four-matchup

    "No one would know better than Nolan Smith. Remember, he was the guy clearly affected the most when Kyrie Irving returned to the court for Duke in the NCAA tournament after missing three months. Smith was forced to slide over to the two-guard spot -- and the Blue Devils wound up getting crushed by Arizona in the Sweet 16.

    Smith said there is no comparison between the situation two seasons ago and the one about to occur in Durham with Ryan Kelly.

    Kelly practiced for the first time since re-injuring his foot back in January -- and could return to game action as soon as this weekend against Miami, although the more likely scenario has him coming back for Senior Night against Virginia Tech on Tuesday.

    "I had the ball the whole year," Smith said. "It wasn't easy for me moving back off the ball for the tournament."

    Smith said that Kelly will have an easy adjustment, and also said his presence will once again make it easier for Mason Plumlee in the post.

    "The ball isn't in Ryan's hands all the time," Smith said. "It's just different for a four or a five-man. Ryan will come in and make shots. He doesn't run the offense."
    Exactly. Maybe now that a former player (in fact, the player most affected by the Irving return) has said it, people will start to take it to heart. Kelly's return has none of the potential downside that Irving's return had. Nothing about our offense or defense has to change in a way that is for the worse. Everything gets easier with Kelly on the floor. And Kelly doesn't even have to touch the ball for everything to get easier.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Inside, Mason will have his work cut out for him. He's struggled with Johnson in the past, and Miami can throw waves of bigs at Mason throughout the game.
    I don't think two guys can be considered "waves." Miami only plays seven guys, and only three of them are tall: Johnson, Gamble, and Kadji. And Kadji won't be guarding Mason, will he? If he does, it would be because Johnson is in foul trouble, so again it's basically two guys.

  11. #11
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    Raleigh, NC
    There really is very little margin for error for this game. We have to play near flawless ball offensively and actually make a few plays defensively to get away with a win here. Miami has an advantage in almost every aspect except for where the game is being played. Not to over-simplify but we need them to make some mental mistakes while being able to capitalize on those by hitting a high percentage of shots. I think it's a safe bet we're going to be pounded on the boards once again. I expect Mason to struggle getting decent positioning in the post against Miami's big bodies. What I'm hoping is that Miami's perimeter just struggles to get anything to go down. I'm hoping they lose focus from time to time and turn the ball over.

    I don't know if the result of this game is really telling of what will transpire for the rest of the season. We know we stink defensively right now and have for a little awhile. We know we're getting Ryan back but have no idea to the extent he'll be able to contribute on Saturday, if at all. We don't know if our offensive and defensive struggles that have occurred post-Kelly will be corrected back to November and December form in time. We certainly can't expect that to be the case Saturday. We know we have a big man that has carried us all season. It is possible this has started to wear him down.

    What really lessens my confidence in this game is our quick turnaround. We need Curry to hit shots in high volume to have a chance Saturday and he has shown issues this season trying to handle a quick turnaround such as this. Really the whole team has. Seth just put in 35 minutes, Rasheed 36, and Mason a full 40. Miami is coming off an extra day's rest following an easy home win over bottom feeder VT.

    Again, a lot just has to somehow go right... and it can. We've been in tough situations before and pulled through. A win here would certainly boost team confidence but a loss wouldn't exactly expose anything we don't already know. Also, Miami is a very good team, best in the conference by far.


    It may not have seemed fathomable recently that we could very well end up finishing 4th in the league but here it is.
    "Just be you. You is Enough."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    There really is very little margin for error for this game. We have to play near flawless ball offensively and actually make a few plays defensively to get away with a win here. Miami has an advantage in almost every aspect except for where the game is being played. Not to over-simplify but we need them to make some mental mistakes while being able to capitalize on those by hitting a high percentage of shots. I think it's a safe bet we're going to be pounded on the boards once again. I expect Mason to struggle getting decent positioning in the post against Miami's big bodies. What I'm hoping is that Miami's perimeter just struggles to get anything to go down. I'm hoping they lose focus from time to time and turn the ball over.

    I don't know if the result of this game is really telling of what will transpire for the rest of the season. We know we stink defensively right now and have for a little awhile. We know we're getting Ryan back but have no idea to the extent he'll be able to contribute on Saturday, if at all. We don't know if our offensive and defensive struggles that have occurred post-Kelly will be corrected back to November and December form in time. We certainly can't expect that to be the case Saturday. We know we have a big man that has carried us all season. It is possible this has started to wear him down.

    What really lessens my confidence in this game is our quick turnaround. We need Curry to hit shots in high volume to have a chance Saturday and he has shown issues this season trying to handle a quick turnaround such as this. Really the whole team has. Seth just put in 35 minutes, Rasheed 36, and Mason a full 40. Miami is coming off an extra day's rest following an easy home win over bottom feeder VT.

    Again, a lot just has to somehow go right... and it can. We've been in tough situations before and pulled through. A win here would certainly boost team confidence but a loss wouldn't exactly expose anything we don't already know. Also, Miami is a very good team, best in the conference by far.


    It may not have seemed fathomable recently that we could very well end up finishing 4th in the league but here it is.
    Before yesterday I was bummed that Duke would not finish 2nd but now I am resigned that they are likely to finish 3 or 4th as the teams ahead have more favorable schedules. The thing is that I have no idea how good the ACC is right now and Duke did not play outside the league without Kelly. So Duke has been over-ranked due to the Kelly games and may be ranked appropriately if Kelly does not come back at full capacity. But the regular season title is out of reach and now it is about the post season. Being 2nd or 5th does not matter too much for the ACC tourney as everyone in that group is pretty even on a neutral floor. So the game tomorrow is more a barometer on toughness and fight. They need to show themselves that they can rise to the occasion - win or lose.The league standings will not matter much in two weeks and if Kelly can help Duke- there will be an effectively new team out there that may actually be deeper than if Kelly had played all season. Duke with Kelly has a good shot at two more tournament championships - it all depends on how healthy everyone will be in a couple weeks.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Exactly. Maybe now that a former player (in fact, the player most affected by the Irving return) has said it, people will start to take it to heart. Kelly's return has none of the potential downside that Irving's return had. Nothing about our offense or defense has to change in a way that is for the worse. Everything gets easier with Kelly on the floor. And Kelly doesn't even have to touch the ball for everything to get easier.
    True, but--a lot will depend on how rusty Kelly is after so much time out. If it becomes clear he isn't hitting his shots, his ability to spread the defense will be reduced. And his defensive contributions, much improved over last year, may not be quite as good as they were earlier either.

    Guess I am just saying that, while I agree adding him back in doesn't seem likely to disrupt the team, it remains to be seen how much it will actually help the team.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    True, but--a lot will depend on how rusty Kelly is after so much time out. If it becomes clear he isn't hitting his shots, his ability to spread the defense will be reduced. And his defensive contributions, much improved over last year, may not be quite as good as they were earlier either.

    Guess I am just saying that, while I agree adding him back in doesn't seem likely to disrupt the team, it remains to be seen how much it will actually help the team.
    While all this is true, I think he will help spread the floor even if he isn't hot from three land to start. No team wants to be the victim of a Ryan barrage of threes. Even if he's missing, teams will still close out hard when he gets the ball in the corner. they will also find it waaaay harder to go all in on a double team on Mason. The threat of Ryan should be enough to open up the floor a little more. No one is even remotely worried about Josh or Amile going gangbusters from three.

    Your comments about the defense are true, however. It will be interesting to see how that goes. Ryan is a very smart player, so i would expect him to get up to speed on the defensive end very quickly. However, i wouldn't be surprised if there is a little bit of rust with his reaction time and footwork.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I don't think two guys can be considered "waves." Miami only plays seven guys, and only three of them are tall: Johnson, Gamble, and Kadji. And Kadji won't be guarding Mason, will he? If he does, it would be because Johnson is in foul trouble, so again it's basically two guys.
    Miami has two additional guys that they can turn to if Gamble and Johnson are in foul trouble: Jekiri (6'11", 227) and Swoope (6'6", 233). Gamble and Johnson are the main two, but they are not afraid to go deeper if need be. They actually have a third (Apkejioir) but he rarely plays now that Johnson is back.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Miami has two additional guys that they can turn to if Gamble and Johnson are in foul trouble: Jekiri (6'11", 227) and Swoope (6'6", 233). Gamble and Johnson are the main two, but they are not afraid to go deeper if need be. They actually have a third (Apkejioir) but he rarely plays now that Johnson is back.
    At 6-10, 300lbs, I'm sure Reggie does feel like multiple waves. So your statement is largely correct based on one guy.
    "Just be you. You is Enough."

  17. #17

    Miami game'

    My friends,

    I agree with jipops comments. We have to be perfect. Yesterday Virginia brought their A game, and we got pounded. I am hoping for a win here. My concerns are if Kelly comes back and is not in basketball shape.The possibility of him missing his shots, may hurt us. We need to make each shot count. Our rebounding was horrible yesterday, and defense as well. With Kelly out, the team dynamics changed dramatically. But we need to get him in so we can move on. I saw comments about the rest of our schedule being hard to finish out the season.
    I see wins including UNC at CH. Of course I had us winning by 48 yesterday, so do not listen to me.

    Have nice day my friends, and weekend,

    Jimmy

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Miami has two additional guys that they can turn to if Gamble and Johnson are in foul trouble: Jekiri (6'11", 227) and Swoope (6'6", 233). Gamble and Johnson are the main two, but they are not afraid to go deeper if need be. They actually have a third (Apkejioir) but he rarely plays now that Johnson is back.
    Jekiri plays about 6 minutes a game. In ACC play, Swoope has played fewer than 4 mpg, plus he's four or five inches shorter than Mason. That seems more like a ripple in a puddle than a wave.

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeAlumBS View Post
    My friends,

    I agree with jipops comments. We have to be perfect. Yesterday Virginia brought their A game, and we got pounded. I am hoping for a win here. My concerns are if Kelly comes back and is not in basketball shape.The possibility of him missing his shots, may hurt us. We need to make each shot count. Our rebounding was horrible yesterday, and defense as well. With Kelly out, the team dynamics changed dramatically. But we need to get him in so we can move on. I saw comments about the rest of our schedule being hard to finish out the season.
    I see wins including UNC at CH. Of course I had us winning by 48 yesterday, so do not listen to me.

    Have nice day my friends, and weekend,

    Jimmy
    Stay thirsty, my friends.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Jekiri plays about 6 minutes a game. In ACC play, Swoope has played fewer than 4 mpg, plus he's four or five inches shorter than Mason. That seems more like a ripple in a puddle than a wave.
    When we're talking about the third and fourth option at C, I'd call that waves, especially considering that 6mpg is more than our backup C plays. Obviously the quality drops off dramatically after the first 3 bigs for Miami. But the fact that they can go to a 4th and 5th (and even 6th in a pinch) big is significant. Especially when we are forced to go with Mason or bust.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    When we're talking about the third and fourth option at C, I'd call that waves, especially considering that 6mpg is more than our backup C plays. Obviously the quality drops off dramatically after the first 3 bigs for Miami. But the fact that they can go to a 4th and 5th (and even 6th in a pinch) big is significant. Especially when we are forced to go with Mason or bust.
    OK, I think we're arguing semantics here, but is Swoope at 6'6 really an option at center against Mason? Frankly, if he's in and we need to give Mason a rest, we could just go with Josh at center, and we'd still have a size advantage at the position. And if Kadji is playing center Miami is giving up their biggest advantage (because he's not playing PF against Amile or Josh or Alex). So basically, Miami has two guys to play center plus a third guy to play a few minutes and use a few fouls. If Ryan plays (and I'm assuming he won't, but if we meet Miami again in the ACCT, I assume he will), we have pretty much the same thing.

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