Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 104
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Yes, it was very much the same way with Zoubek (and many other mature/seasoned big men)...try to disrupt the shot if possible, but don't try to block everything or you'll usually either foul or give up the offensive rebound. Mason has very good ups and can probably average an extra block or two per game if he tried swatting everything that came his way (like Nerlens Noel tries to do). But Mason would also get in more frequent foul trouble, and our offense and defense would be worse off over the course of the game with him on the bench. I am sure Coach K has him calibrated pretty much the way he wants him in that respect.

    Of course, it can be frustrating sometimes to see him "give up" a short gimme shot or layup when I would like to see him just send it back, but I am also glad to see that Mason's minutes per foul (the time it takes to accumulate one foul) has increased steadily over the course of his career from 6.71 as a freshman, to 9.85 as a sophomore, to 11.36 as a junior, to 17.15 as a senior.
    This post is right on. If Mason get's in foul trouble we're in trouble and if he fouls out with major minutes left we're doomed(until/if Ryan returns). Mason is a much better defender than what he showed last night. At least up until the end of the game with said game on the line. Then Mason played defense the way he's suppose to. For those wanting Marshall spell him for 10-12 minutes, it should be evident that the injury set Marshall back to the point he can not be counted on for over 2-3 minutes in conference games. I'm sure he'll contribute at Duke but maybe not this year. GoDuke!

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by nocilla View Post
    I have another question about a call that was made. There was a play I think in the first half where a Wake defender blocked a shot and the ball bounced off the bottom of the backboard and went out of bounds. I assumed the ball would remain with Duke but it was awarded to Wake. Did I miss a Duke player touching the ball after the block? Even when they showed a replay I didn't see a Duke player anywhere near the ball. Or is there a rule about the ball hitting the bottom of the backboard? Or maybe they ruled that the Wake defender never actually touched the ball. The announcers called it a block and it looked like one, but I guess it is possible that he didn't actually touch it. Does anyone remember that play and know what the call was?
    The bottom of the backboard (I'm assuming you literally mean the backboard - not the support behind the backboard) is in play. The support behind the backboard (even the part of it that is in the court of play) is out of bounds. There is no offense/defense out of bounds rule involving either apparatus. If a Wake player blocked the ball and it hit the bottom of the backboard and shot out of bounds, it should have been Duke's ball. If a Wake player blocked the ball off the support, it should have been Duke's ball. I assume that either the ball wasn't actually blocked or the officials simply missed the block.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by vick View Post
    While I'm not going to claim this game was a thing of beauty, the negativity in the in-game thread was kind of over the top. I believe Wake Forest has scored 0.95 points per possession in ACC play to date if my calculations are right. In this game we gave up...1.01. Obviously you want to do better, but it was hardly the total train wreck that it was being made out to be. Given that Mason obviously has to play to avoid fouls--I believe three of his four fouls were on the offensive end, and unlike some others I think those were fair calls, though the fourth one was pretty weak I thought--and our best perimeter defender, Sulaimon, was saddled with foul trouble in the first half, I don't think it was horrible. It was just...average.
    I am glad I suck at mathematics. That way I can enjoy a game without disecting it into such arcane and meaningless numbers that upset me.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Mason does have to be cautious when challenging his man's post moves or going for the block on help defense when he is in foul trouble. Wake probably got a couple baskets because he didn't risk fouling.

    However I think his quote means the coaching staff wants him to play smarter D besides not challenging shots when in foul trouble. Wake got at least 4 baskets when Mason had very poor decision making on defense. Twice he went for the steal on an entry pass to Thomas, didn't get it and couldn't go for the blocked shot attempt because of his foul situation. He is generally pretty good on selective gambling on trying to steal the entry pass but he needs to just play solid position D when he is foul trouble. He also badly failed to close out on a big on the perimeter twice (Rountree (1st half) led to a dunk and Cavanaugh (2nd half) led to 3 point play and 4th foul on Mason). I know that Mason doesn't typically close out on shooters but both of these plays he looked he really had a very half-hearted close out.

    Overall, Mason, particularly offensively, had a great game. He also came up with several big defensive plays late. That being said I think the coaches will have plenty of teaching moments when they review his D on film.
    I very much agree. In fact as a team (and perhaps this is a coaching decision) we've been extending to deny passes, only to give up easy looks inside. As some folks have mentioned, perhaps we need to take
    fewer chances on defense and settle back more on defense as we did in 2010...last night we gave up a virtual parade of layups.

  5. #85

    agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I very much agree. In fact as a team (and perhaps this is a coaching decision) we've been extending to deny passes, only to give up easy looks inside. As some folks have mentioned, perhaps we need to take
    fewer chances on defense and settle back more on defense as we did in 2010...last night we gave up a virtual parade of layups.
    Several of Mason's defensive breakdowns came before he was in foul trouble, and in the second half he made some plays that put him in very poor defensive position. Fortunately, he just missed hacking a ballhandler in the backcourt (out of frustration) late in the game, a foul that would have been very costly. Either the coaching staff is going to have to find a way to bring more offside help when we get beat going for steals, or we are going to have to be more prudent and play guys straight up. I feel like these kind of decisions are where we really miss Ryan, who was outstanding in terms of his decision making on defense.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by mike88 View Post
    Several of Mason's defensive breakdowns came before he was in foul trouble, and in the second half he made some plays that put him in very poor defensive position. Fortunately, he just missed hacking a ballhandler in the backcourt (out of frustration) late in the game, a foul that would have been very costly. Either the coaching staff is going to have to find a way to bring more offside help when we get beat going for steals, or we are going to have to be more prudent and play guys straight up. I feel like these kind of decisions are where we really miss Ryan, who was outstanding in terms of his decision making on defense.
    I agree with this. Mason had some tough calls go against him on the offensive end, but his defense was average for the entire game. Of course, that was offset by his dominating performance on the offensive end, so no harm done in terms of the outcome. However, once he was in foul trouble, he gambled for steals a few times instead of just playing positional defense and making the opposition shoot over him. Every time he gambled, he lost the bet and gave up an easy layup. I've got no problem with him not challenging shots at the rim when he's rotating over when he's got foul trouble. However, it's a different story when he gambles, loses the gamble, and then allows his man to get an uncontested shot. We want him to at least force his man to shoot over his outstretched arms.

    This is not meant to be a Mason bashing post. He was my MOTM for sure. But his D was certainly worthy of some criticism, even considering his foul situation.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NC Raised, DC Resident
    Quote Originally Posted by nocilla View Post
    I have another question about a call that was made. There was a play I think in the first half where a Wake defender blocked a shot and the ball bounced off the bottom of the backboard and went out of bounds. I assumed the ball would remain with Duke but it was awarded to Wake. Did I miss a Duke player touching the ball after the block? Even when they showed a replay I didn't see a Duke player anywhere near the ball. Or is there a rule about the ball hitting the bottom of the backboard? Or maybe they ruled that the Wake defender never actually touched the ball. The announcers called it a block and it looked like one, but I guess it is possible that he didn't actually touch it. Does anyone remember that play and know what the call was?
    I remember this play, and was as perplexed as you were...Seth over-penetrated on a drive, got caught under the basket and kind of heaved an over-the-shoulder prayer that was blocked by the Wake defender (Rountree, I think) off the bottom of the backboard and out of bounds. The replay also clearly showed the block and subsequently nobody touched the ball. The announcers called it a block. It was clearly a bad play by Curry, but also clearly should have remained with Duke. The refs judged that the ball was not touched by the defender, so it went back to Wake. Missed call, but these things happen.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    I agree with this. Mason had some tough calls go against him on the offensive end, but his defense was average for the entire game. Of course, that was offset by his dominating performance on the offensive end, so no harm done in terms of the outcome. However, once he was in foul trouble, he gambled for steals a few times instead of just playing positional defense and making the opposition shoot over him. Every time he gambled, he lost the bet and gave up an easy layup. I've got no problem with him not challenging shots at the rim when he's rotating over when he's got foul trouble. However, it's a different story when he gambles, loses the gamble, and then allows his man to get an uncontested shot. We want him to at least force his man to shoot over his outstretched arms.

    This is not meant to be a Mason bashing post. He was my MOTM for sure. But his D was certainly worthy of some criticism, even considering his foul situation.
    I agree with this. I voted for him as MOM but his defense has been troubling at times throughout the year, it wasn't just a snap judgment on last night and I don't think anyone is above criticism as shown by his apparent quotes in the paper about coaches not being happy with his defense. Defense is the #1 thing on Coach K's list and that is why I was surprised so many people thought K said to give up wide open lay ups to stay on the floor. As many mention, this seems to be Alex's biggest learning curve and will continue to be the biggest thing keeping freshmen off the floor at Duke.

    As far as Mason, I agree with the previous poster about his one foul in the back court that was luckily not called. He looked frustrated and should have gotten a foul 80 feet from the hoop which would have been disastrous. Luckily for him and Duke, refs let it go. And when he did gamble, he looked a bit upset that nobody came over to help. I think that is where he misses Kelly the most. Not that he should be gambling that much but guys need to rotate and at least give the guy something to think about.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    I was just thinking about our tendency to over-rely on the 3. Wondering if anyone can do some research breaking down our 3 point percentage and avg 3 pointers taken in home games vs neutral vs away sites. Maybe in a new thread?

    It worries me because we've seen too many times where a cold shooting night basically ends our season in a one and done situation.
    By my own subjective memory, I would guess that there is a pretty big disparity in our 3-point shooting percentage home vs away and I wonder if the difference is much different from national averages. Is there anything that can be done about this? Should we try to shoot less 3s on the road, even if we're getting good looks? It seems like good shooters should be able to adapt to different environments and shooting backgrounds.


    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    .. And Duke leads the ACC in three-pointers made and in shooting percentage. Then, when you shoot 2-14 from outside, you are lucky not to die by the jump shot. Our freshman and sophs need to learn to play tough and focused offense on the road.

    I am happy for any kind of win on the road, but we need to get our bearings and play better this weekend in Tallahassee.

    Mason was dominant, unless one can think of a stronger word. Seth's scoring, mostly on pull-up shots and layups, was also key to our win. I thought our defense got a lot better after the first eight-ten minutes, and later, as others noted, Wake got some easier baskets inside when Mason had to draw back because of fouls.

    In the last two minutes, Duke shone and Wake crumbled. And we got the win.

    sagegrouse

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta 'burbs
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I was just thinking about our tendency to over-rely on the 3. Wondering if anyone can do some research breaking down our 3 point percentage and avg 3 pointers taken in home games vs neutral vs away sites. Maybe in a new thread?

    It worries me because we've seen too many times where a cold shooting night basically ends our season in a one and done situation.
    By my own subjective memory, I would guess that there is a pretty big disparity in our 3-point shooting percentage home vs away and I wonder if the difference is much different from national averages. Is there anything that can be done about this? Should we try to shoot less 3s on the road, even if we're getting good looks? It seems like good shooters should be able to adapt to different environments and shooting backgrounds.
    Yep. And for that someone out there doing the research, how about factoring in which brand of basketball is being used. I read on DBR or somewhere that there are different manufacturers' basketballs being used by different teams (or it might be by conference), but that when the NCAA tourney starts all games are played with a certain brand of ball. When practicing for a road game, does Duke switch to the upcoming opponent's brand?

    I would attempt this in-depth study, but it's hard enough for me to keep track of how many naps I take in a day. (Fortunately, so far I have been able to wake up the exact number of times that I have fallen asleep.)

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    ... Mason was dominant, unless one can think of a stronger word...
    superior, controlling, ascendant, assertive, authoritative, commanding, effective, foremost, governing, leading, nate james-like, paramount, patrick davidson-esque, powerful, preeminent, prevailing, prevalent, principal, reigning, ruling, sovereign, supreme, surpassing, transcendent

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    It was interesting how confident Mason looked and how smoothly he executed his inside moves while in single coverage. Just like the "old" Mason of November and early December. He even made his free throws. Then, when Wake started doubling and crowding him more, late in the game, things seemed more difficult for him. So perhaps he hasn't regressed or hit a wall or any of the things people have been saying, it's just a matter of how he's defended.

    Once again it shows how much we miss Ryan. I don't think it was coincidence that the best roll of Ryan's career came just when opponents started doubling Mason in late December and early January.
    There's no doubt that what you've said here is absolutely true. With Ryan on the floor, teams have to worry about another scorer (and, as much as I love Amile, he's not truly a scorer...yet), AND they have to move their 4 out of the lane to defend Ryan. That gives teams the unenviable decision of either doubling Mason and leaving Ryan, Rasheed, Curry, or Cook alone (and leaving Curry or Cook alone only if they want to bring a guard down to double Mason)...or playing Mase in single coverage. If they double Mase, his numbers will suffer, but Ryan or our perimeter guys are going to get better looks (especially if Mason can pass out of the double) and their production will increase.

    Replacing Ryan with Amile or Hairston effectively gives the opponent an obvious way for a big to double on Mason without significant offensive repurcussions. It's a dramatic change in our offensive capabilities.

    What I still find amazing is the defensive fall-off with Ryan out. He's a good defender, but our efficiency numbers have plummeted. Is that all the loss of Ryan (who's being replaced by reasonably good defenders in Hairston or Jefferson)...or is it partly because of Mason's increased hesitation to aggressively defend for fear of picking up fouls and costing us our only scoring big?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I was just thinking about our tendency to over-rely on the 3. Wondering if anyone can do some research breaking down our 3 point percentage and avg 3 pointers taken in home games vs neutral vs away sites. Maybe in a new thread?

    It worries me because we've seen too many times where a cold shooting night basically ends our season in a one and done situation.
    By my own subjective memory, I would guess that there is a pretty big disparity in our 3-point shooting percentage home vs away and I wonder if the difference is much different from national averages. Is there anything that can be done about this? Should we try to shoot less 3s on the road, even if we're getting good looks? It seems like good shooters should be able to adapt to different environments and shooting backgrounds.
    I know the common narrative is that Duke lives and dies by the 3 but this isn't exclusive to many top teams. Before Kelly went down, Duke was obviously more versatile and didn't live or die by the 3 as much (I'll try to dig up some stats to back that up). But just looking at Kenpom, Duke is actually 213 in 3PA/FGA at 31.7% which means they aren't necessarily shooting too many 3's. But they are 7th in % of points which come from the 3 at 40.1%. What I take from this is that Duke doesn't take too many 3's, they just hit a lot of the 3's that they take.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    i really like mason's body language when he is whistled for a transgression....no baloney, no sheepish droop, no "oh no you did NOT call me on that", no "woe is me".......he's already going the other way....next play...
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    To be honest, any team that's making more than 40% of its threes probably isn't taking enough.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    I don't care how many 3s we take at home since we seem to shoot a high percentage at CIS but what do we shoot on the road? To be a good road team, we probably have to be more aggressive and try to get more points inside. I would bet that our younger guys, ie Sheed and Quinn, struggle more with 3-point shooting on the road. It would be great if they looked to penetrate more to get themselves going early in the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    To be honest, any team that's making more than 40% of its threes probably isn't taking enough.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    i really like mason's body language when he is whistled for a transgression....no baloney, no sheepish droop, no "oh no you did NOT call me on that", no "woe is me".......he's already going the other way....next play...
    I notice and like that too. And on the other end, after a monster dunk, he immediately turns around and runs down the court... no macho flexing, etc. On that note, if the ball is near to him, he tries to pick it up and toss it to the ref before he goes the other way. This, to me, is why he got that T in the other game... I thought he was trying to tap the ball to the ref, not knowing that the other player was going towards the ball to pick it up...

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    i really like mason's body language when he is whistled for a transgression....no baloney, no sheepish droop, no "oh no you did NOT call me on that", no "woe is me".......he's already going the other way....next play...
    I'd like to see that emotional maturity extend to when he makes a mistake on offense. It seems to me that more than half of his miscues on defense (fouls, flubbed assignments, being caught out of position) come as a result of getting frustrated on offense (missed drunk, traveling) and trying to "make up for it" with a big play on defense. He's been doing this for years now, and it's not as bad as in year's past, but he still seems he could use a little dose of "next play."

    Still, fantastic game by him last night. And to clarify my earlier comments, I don't fault him for the double-dribble. I've seen him "sell that" in the past and get points off it. It just always makes me nervous.

    /side note: At some point it will be interesting to compare how each of the Plumlees grew and developed during their Duke years. Clearly, Miles and Mason made huge strides in all difference facets of the game. I'm hoping for similar progress from Marshall in coming years. It's interesting to think that not only do they share the same genetic make up and many of the same physical traits and advantages, but will also have had many of the same coaches in high school and college.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I was just thinking about our tendency to over-rely on the 3.
    I know this discussion has occurred many times on the board, but what does it mean to "over-rely" on the 3? Does the basic act of taking a lot of threes make you "over-reliant"? I know it's been established that it is one of the most efficient shots to take if you make it at a reasonable clip. Although I guess three-point shots also have a higher deviation from average on a game to game basis. But certainly you'd rather take threes than long twos, right? If the opponent packs the lane and makes open layups difficult to get, shouldn't you take an open three-pointer in rhythm?

    FWIW, here's a table showing the percentage of threes attempted vs. overall shots attempted for Duke this century:

    Code:
    Year   3p att/tot att
    ----   --------------
    2013     .320
    2012     .386
    2011     .353
    2010     .330
    2009     .350
    2008     .392
    2007     .296
    2006     .352
    2005     .398
    2004     .334
    2003     .339
    2002     .375
    2001     .418
    2000     .342
    Looks like the highest percentage (most threes per shot attempt) was in 2001, a national championship season, and the lowest percentage was in 2007 (our consensus worst season for the period and a first round exit in the NCAAT). In what years did we over-rely on the three?

    Also, this season is our 2nd lowest ratio of the 21st century, so no matter what else is true it wouldn't appear as if we're over-relying in 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    It worries me because we've seen too many times where a cold shooting night basically ends our season in a one and done situation.
    Well, isn't it true that most teams who are facing a strong opponent will lose if they shoot poorly? Can't you have cold shooting nights from two as well as from three, especially if the two-point shots aren't all layups or dunks?

    That said, since 2005, Duke's lowest percentage from three-land in an NCAA tournament game was 3 for 17 (.176) against California in 2010, and not only did we win that game, but we won a bunch of others that tournament. Our 5 for 17 (.294) against Butler that season was the 9th coldest we've shot in an NCAAT game during the 2005 to 2012 period (of the "bottom ten" in the period, we won 5 and lost 5). So a cold shooting night hasn't always been fatal for us in the one-and-done environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    Should we try to shoot less 3s on the road, even if we're getting good looks?
    First of all, do you think it's practical to practice one style of offense for home games and another for away games? We often play one of each in a week. It sounds like it'd be really difficult to prepare that way.

    Not only that, if we're getting good looks why would we want to take fewer such shots?

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    I don't care how many 3s we take at home since we seem to shoot a high percentage at CIS but what do we shoot on the road? To be a good road team, we probably have to be more aggressive and try to get more points inside.
    Last season (2011-12) I believe we were undefeated on the road. And we shot a ton of threes. I'm not sure there's a particularly strong correlation.

Similar Threads

  1. MBB: Duke 80, Wake Forest 62 Post-Game Thread
    By JBDuke in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 01-06-2013, 08:54 PM
  2. MBB: Duke 79, Wake Forest 71 Post-Game Thread
    By JBDuke in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 03-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  3. MBB: Duke 91, Wake Forest 73 Post Game Thread
    By Bob Green in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 01-20-2012, 10:47 PM
  4. MBB: Duke 83, Wake Forest 59 Post-Game Thread
    By Bob Green in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 93
    Last Post: 01-23-2011, 06:40 PM
  5. FB: Wake Forest 54, Duke 48 Post Game Thread
    By Bob Green in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 09-19-2010, 11:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •