Quinn Cook: Top 10 PG?

[DavidBenAkiva]

This Duke basketball season is going so well, I am straining to find things to get upset about. One things that is stuck in my craw is the lack of attention Quinn Cook is getting on the national stage. Case in point: the most recent edition of Jason King's blog post on ESPN includes a quick ranking of the top PG's in the country. Some of ESPN's top basketball writers, including guys I like and respect, failed to vote for Cook among the top 20. Meanwhile, he's played head-to-head against three of the top 10 (Peyton Siva, #4 on the list; Aaron Craft #6; Andre Hollins #10; and Archie Goodwin, Honorable Mention). I did a quick stats analysis of those four games, and here's how it turned out for Duke's Point Guard against some of the best in the country:

Cook: 12.8 pts/gm, 4-9 shooting (44.4%), 4 rebs, 5.3 asts, 3.25 turnovers, 2 stls
Opponents: 14.5 pts/gm, 5-13.4 shooting (36.4%), 3.8 reb, 3.3 asts, 3.5 turnovers, 1.5 stls

Cook isn't scoring as much as his highly-esteemed opponents in these games, but's he's been a better shooter, distributor, had fewer turnovers, and more rebounds and steals. Also, from my memory, he was clutch in those games. What does #2 for the Blue Devils have to do be considered one of the 10 best in the country?

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana
-- Groucho Marx

[dukelifer]

This Duke basketball season is going so well, I am straining to find things to get upset about. One things that is stuck in my craw is the lack of attention Quinn Cook is getting on the national stage. Case in point: the most recent edition of Jason King's blog post on ESPN includes a quick ranking of the top PG's in the country. Some of ESPN's top basketball writers, including guys I like and respect, failed to vote for Cook among the top 20. Meanwhile, he's played head-to-head against three of the top 10 (Peyton Siva, #4 on the list; Aaron Craft #6; Andre Hollins #10; and Archie Goodwin, Honorable Mention). I did a quick stats analysis of those four games, and here's how it turned out for Duke's Point Guard against some of the best in the country:

Cook: 12.8 pts/gm, 4-9 shooting (44.4%), 4 rebs, 5.3 asts, 3.25 turnovers, 2 stls
Opponents: 14.5 pts/gm, 5-13.4 shooting (36.4%), 3.8 reb, 3.3 asts, 3.5 turnovers, 1.5 stls

Cook isn't scoring as much as his highly-esteemed opponents in these games, but's he's been a better shooter, distributor, had fewer turnovers, and more rebounds and steals. Also, from my memory, he was clutch in those games. What does #2 for the Blue Devils have to do be considered one of the 10 best in the country?

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana
-- Groucho Marx

I hope Quinn uses this as motivation to get better- because he is already good. Much better to be under the radar. Quinn has been a difference maker for Duke this year- but let the other guys get the headlines. Quinn will get his soon enough.

[brevity]

Jan Brady syndrome. He's not a freshman or a senior.

[camion]

I don't know if Quinn is a top 10 PG.

I do know that his play is one of the reasons the team is ranked where it is at the moment. We needed him to step up and he did, bigtime.

[OldPhiKap]

He is the starting point guard on the #1 team in the country.

Good enough for me.


Personally, I am a fan of flying under the radar. I do find it difficult to believe, though, that he hasn't gotten the ink splash that some others have. It's not like he was MVP of a tournament where we beat three NCAA-bound teams in a row or anything.

[UrinalCake]

I disagree - I want him to be getting more hype. Guys come to duke so they can be in the spotlight, not fly under the radar. We want our current players to be accustomed to playing under pressure, and we want recruits to see Duke everywhere, all the time.

My take on why Quinn hasn't gotten more press is
- Mason is having such a phenomenal season
- we have three seniors, who are the presumed leaders and thus an outside observer would tend to give them all of the credit for our success
- many people don't know that he was injured/recovering last year, so they weren't impressed by him. Now that's clouding their judgment.
- he does everything really well but doesn't stand out in one area, so on paper you don't get a sense for how good and how valuable he's been

[gam7]

I disagree - I want him to be getting more hype. Guys come to duke so they can be in the spotlight, not fly under the radar. We want our current players to be accustomed to playing under pressure, and we want recruits to see Duke everywhere, all the time.

My take on why Quinn hasn't gotten more press is
- Mason is having such a phenomenal season
- we have three seniors, who are the presumed leaders and thus an outside observer would tend to give them all of the credit for our success
- many people don't know that he was injured/recovering last year, so they weren't impressed by him. Now that's clouding their judgment.
- he does everything really well but doesn't stand out in one area, so on paper you don't get a sense for how good and how valuable he's been

Another reason to add to your list is that he's not considered much of a draft prospect at this point in his career.

Quinn's been a great fit for this team and is getting better and better, but there are some good college-level point guards out there right now. For this year at least, he may have to settle for recognition in the form of broadcasters saying every game that HE is the reason Duke is having such a great year.

[COYS]

Another reason to add to your list is that he's not considered much of a draft prospect at this point in his career.

Quinn's been a great fit for this team and is getting better and better, but there are some good college-level point guards out there right now. For this year at least, he may have to settle for recognition in the form of broadcasters saying every game that HE is the reason Duke is having such a great year.

Quinn will have his day in the spotlight. He's got an infection personality and, when he's playing well, clearly has a lot of fun on the court. That combined with the fact that Duke point guards can only hide in the shadows for a small window of time means that I think he'll be looked at for All-ACC votes for one of the teams as early as this year and may very well go into next year near the top of the list of college point guards. That being said, I think he'd probably take it as a compliment that many fail to recognize how well he's playing. He's managing the offense very well which is helping Mason put up NPOY worthy numbers. It's helping Seth get open look after open look despite every defense on the planet knowing for a fact that they can't leave Seth open. He's keeping the floor spaced with his improved three point accuracy which opens up driving lanes for Rasheed and allows our star frosh to play to his strengths. Finally, he runs the pick and pop really well with Ryan (as does Seth), which has helped Ryan get more open looks over the last 6-7 games than he was getting in the first few games. The result of Quinn's play has been improved team play on offense as a whole for Duke. Regardless of whether people realize it or not, when they compliment Mason, Seth or Ryan, they are indirectly highlighting some of the contributions that Quinn has made.

To that end, Tyler has made incremental but significant improvements to his playmaking and shooting abilities. His assist rate is a full six percentage points higher than last season and now sits at a respectable 21%. His three point shooting has been solid as well. Many posters including your truly thought that the biggest addition Tyler could make to his game would be to knock down the wide open three point shot at a nice clip. So far, that's exactly what he's done, but he has also improved his passing and his defense, as well. Tyler and Quinn have combined to play some excellent basketball this year.

[sagegrouse]

Quinn will have his day in the spotlight. He's got an infection personality and, when he's playing well, clearly has a lot of fun on the court.

That's my kind of Freudian slip. How do you treat an "infection personality?" Mercury and arsenic, or are there antibiotics?

sagegrouse

[gam7]

That's my kind of Freudian slip. How do you treat an "infection personality?" Mercury and arsenic, or are there antibiotics?

sagegrouse

I just assumed Borat hijacked your DBR account. "High five."

[COYS]

That's my kind of Freudian slip. How do you treat an "infection personality?" Mercury and arsenic, or are there antibiotics?

sagegrouse

Haha, whoops. I am apparently suffering from an auto-correction infection.

[MChambers]

Haha, whoops. I am apparently suffering from an auto-correction infection.

I was thinking maybe Quinn was related to Typhoid Mary!

[JasonEvans]

I am not sure how many folks have noticed, but Quinn has really turned into a dribbling wizard at times. Late in the game last night, he just weaved his way through the Davidson D on a couple occasions. It was fun to watch and the kind of PG play I have not seen from Duke very much over the past decade (other than Kyrie's short stint in Duke blue).

-Jason "loving what we are getting from Quinn so far... and salivating at what I see coming from him in the future" Evans

[AtlDuke72]

He looked like he might be related to Phil Ford - and not many ever dribbled better than that Heel.

[yancem]

Another reason to add to your list is that he's not considered much of a draft prospect at this point in his career.

Quinn's been a great fit for this team and is getting better and better, but there are some good college-level point guards out there right now. For this year at least, he may have to settle for recognition in the form of broadcasters saying every game that HE is the reason Duke is having such a great year.

I think that this is probably a sizable reason for the lack of recognition but Marshall had the same issue as a freshman (and should have had it last year based on his rookie numbers) but he got all kinds of recognition and credit for unc's success which I find interesting. It will be interesting how Cook's draft prospects change over the next 2 years. I think that his height is going to prevent him from ever being considered a definite lottery pick but his game has developed far and quickly so I wouldn't bet too much against it. Either way, he is certainly making me feel much better about not trying to recruit a top notch pg the last two years and if we miss out on Tyus Jones in '14 I won't be sweating it as much I thought I would be a few months ago (that is until Cook proves me wrong by blowing up next season and going pro )

[Newton_14]

He looked like he might be related to Phil Ford - and not many ever dribbled better than that Heel.

For you young bucks, that is extremely high praise. Ford was much like Pistol Pete in that the ball was like a yo-yo in his hand. He was small and slight like Quinn, and could go where ever he wanted to go whenever he decided to. Just unguardable, especially when UNC went to the 4 Corners to salt the game away. The lead could be as small as 2 or 4 points, with 5 or more minutes to go, and in essence, the game was over, because of Ford's ability to dribble, and then attack if he decided to. I hated him and UNC but dude was a magician with the ball.

Quinn is showing similar traits, which is awesome. Given he is only a Sophomore and first year starter, his ceiling is high. Last night was awesome. As Quinn matures, he will only get better.

[bedeviled]

Okay, I’ll martyr myself a little here for the OP by looking at areas for improvement. The players on the Top10 list have different attributes, so it’s tough to compare Quinn to them as a collective unit. Instead, I’ll focus on my view of Quinn: I think recognition will come with experience. Quinn is still a relatively immature player. Here are, more or less, 5 areas that reflect this (Honestly, the one I care about is #5 (dictating play) but it’s built on the others):

1. Consistency in internal intensity: It often appears that Quinn relies on a world-beater or highlight reel mentality to drive his motor. When things get more intense, he gets more spirited. This may seem great because it means he performs better on the big stage, but it has its drawbacks, too.

• You can see him feed off the beginnings of good play. He tries to elevate his game by purposefully amping himself up (clapping, hitting his chest, ‘putting on a face,’ head nods, cajoling his teammates and the crowd). However, this is often the reverse of the way things should happen….the external pump (physical posturing, celebration, crowd noise) should be secondary to internal game, he shouldn’t rely on the external things to elevate his internal motor. Note, it’s cyclic in nature, so it’s definitely not black-and-white. But, in my eyes, it is evident that he relies quite a bit on external factors for his internal drive. Personally, one of my biggest hopes for Phase II was that Quinn would have to develop his own inner drive because the winter games don’t have the same intensity. Unfortunately, I wonder if, instead, this is one of the reasons for our lackluster starts (ie there’s little external intensity to feed off of in the 1^st half against a middling team).
• Related to his amping himself up, he has more of a tendency to talk and get chippy compared to our other players. More than one ref has had to verbally warn him this year, and, as I recall, his chippiness resulted in a technical foul for Tyler in one game. This can potentially cause instability and risk for the team in tense games.
• His spiritedness isn’t always positive, as evidenced by his history of getting down on himself when things aren’t going well. Thus, it is yet unclear what will happen if we get down big to a quality opponent - will he rise up and dominate or will he get crabby, chippy, and try to force things too much?

2. Complex strategy and setting up mismatches: Quinn has an attack-first tendency. He may be setting up someone else for the attack, but he’s still predominantly full-throttle attack. The general tendency of inexperienced athletes is to aim straight for the goal, but veteran players may focus on other paths to accomplish the objective. I think this is easier to see in soccer where there is more spacing to see plays develop – an offense will often spend much of a possession getting position and disrupting the defense rather than going straight for a shot. It’s also evident in tennis where a player is not necessarily aiming every shot to be a winner, rather they are setting up the opponent over a series of plays.
I didn’t get to see the end of the Davidson game, but the DBR posts sound as though Quinn had a more deliberate approach in the stall-offense. For most of the game, Davidson dictated play on that end of the court by running their defensive scheme. It sounds like Quinn finally disrupted their scheme by pulling on their defensive formation with his dribbling. I didn’t see it, but my suspicion (and some of the DBR description) is that his dribbling wasn’t necessarily to-goal during this time. This is contrary to his usual nature, and I would guess that it was due to Coach K calling for stall-offense, not a decision by Quinn (though I’ll be a pleased puppy if this was really Quinn figuring out on his own how to break the defense apart). Regarding the Top10, I really appreciate the Louisville guards’ abilities to disrupt defenses via dribbling. I have also seen Craft do the same thing, too, but with passing. He will set up passes and his own movement, not to directly get a basket, but to set the offensive-defensive balance in a different manner for a subsequent attack.

3. Within-play flexibility: Similar to #2, it is relatively unlikely that Quinn will de-commit from executing an attack he has already started. If he starts a drive, he will typically attempt to finish the attack, via drive or dish for a shot (again, an intense focus on the end-game). As far as I recall, it is rare for him to drive in and continue to dribble right on out of the lane if things don’t look good. Perhaps I should comment that it doesn’t seem like Quinn forces very much action on the whole. But, once he does start an attack action, he’s likely to follow through. Obviously, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but veterans tend to have more flexibility, less tunnel-vision toward the end goal.

4. Completing plays without the ball: I don’t know if this one is true or not because I’m limited by tv angles. Putting together the above characteristics, though, I would guess that Quinn has a tendency to pause at the end of plays. There have been some plays on tv where Quinn finishes his part of the play and hesitates for a moment, watching the completion of the play. This is a factor of the above characteristics because 1. in his mind, once the play is headed to the basket, that’s where it will end and 2. it is important for him to witness the play because he uses the external factors (eg watching us score) to drive his internal motor. Even if it is true, I don’t know of any specific times that it came back to hurt us (like him not getting the rebound or not getting back on D)….though I am curious if he got himself in positions to get the ball back from Mason after the Davidson double-teams. Anyway, (if it’s true), it would be more veteran of him to continue to participate in the play through to the play’s completion.

5. Dictating play (This is the most important quality to me, and one that some in the Top10 possess): It seems to me that our opponents are often dictating the style and play in games. I do think Quinn exerts his presence on the game. In fact, I think that Quinn, to this point, sets the tone for Duke. I don’t view his presence, though, as a complex/strategic presence. Due to his immaturity, the presence is one of expediency. I’ll go out alone on a limb here and say that I do not think we run an “inside-out” offense as has been the common rhetoric. I think we, like Quinn individually, are focused on getting the bucket in the most expedient way possible (within Duke’s usual recent spread motion offense). We take what is given. This has worked well because we are so very good at taking it!! Unfortunately, in my view, it has also led to a relatively underdeveloped sense of offensive identity and inconsistency within the offense itself. Moreover, it allows the other teams to dictate play. It’s crazy amazing that we continue to win despite going against teams’ desired defensive strategies.

In summary, the way I see Quinn’s game, I think there are areas that could improve substantially with experience. And, I do think recognition would follow.

[Edouble]

I am not sure how many folks have noticed, but Quinn has really turned into a dribbling wizard at times. Late in the game last night, he just weaved his way through the Davidson D on a couple occasions. It was fun to watch and the kind of PG play I have not seen from Duke very much over the past decade (other than Kyrie's short stint in Duke blue).

-Jason "loving what we are getting from Quinn so far... and salivating at what I see coming from him in the future" Evans

I have noticed this. His left hand is incredible.

[Indoor66]

That's my kind of Freudian slip. How do you treat an "infection personality?" Mercury and arsenic, or are there antibiotics?

sagegrouse

Where is devildeac when you need him most?

[licc85]

Okay, I’ll martyr myself a little here for the OP by looking at areas for improvement. The players on the Top10 list have different attributes, so it’s tough to compare Quinn to them as a collective unit. Instead, I’ll focus on my view of Quinn: I think recognition will come with experience. Quinn is still a relatively immature player. Here are, more or less, 5 areas that reflect this (Honestly, the one I care about is #5 (dictating play) but it’s built on the others):

1. Consistency in internal intensity: It often appears that Quinn relies on a world-beater or highlight reel mentality to drive his motor. When things get more intense, he gets more spirited. This may seem great because it means he performs better on the big stage, but it has its drawbacks, too.

• You can see him feed off the beginnings of good play. He tries to elevate his game by purposefully amping himself up (clapping, hitting his chest, ‘putting on a face,’ head nods, cajoling his teammates and the crowd). However, this is often the reverse of the way things should happen….the external pump (physical posturing, celebration, crowd noise) should be secondary to internal game, he shouldn’t rely on the external things to elevate his internal motor. Note, it’s cyclic in nature, so it’s definitely not black-and-white. But, in my eyes, it is evident that he relies quite a bit on external factors for his internal drive. Personally, one of my biggest hopes for Phase II was that Quinn would have to develop his own inner drive because the winter games don’t have the same intensity. Unfortunately, I wonder if, instead, this is one of the reasons for our lackluster starts (ie there’s little external intensity to feed off of in the 1^st half against a middling team).
• Related to his amping himself up, he has more of a tendency to talk and get chippy compared to our other players. More than one ref has had to verbally warn him this year, and, as I recall, his chippiness resulted in a technical foul for Tyler in one game. This can potentially cause instability and risk for the team in tense games.
• His spiritedness isn’t always positive, as evidenced by his history of getting down on himself when things aren’t going well. Thus, it is yet unclear what will happen if we get down big to a quality opponent - will he rise up and dominate or will he get crabby, chippy, and try to force things too much?

2. Complex strategy and setting up mismatches: Quinn has an attack-first tendency. He may be setting up someone else for the attack, but he’s still predominantly full-throttle attack. The general tendency of inexperienced athletes is to aim straight for the goal, but veteran players may focus on other paths to accomplish the objective. I think this is easier to see in soccer where there is more spacing to see plays develop – an offense will often spend much of a possession getting position and disrupting the defense rather than going straight for a shot. It’s also evident in tennis where a player is not necessarily aiming every shot to be a winner, rather they are setting up the opponent over a series of plays.
I didn’t get to see the end of the Davidson game, but the DBR posts sound as though Quinn had a more deliberate approach in the stall-offense. For most of the game, Davidson dictated play on that end of the court by running their defensive scheme. It sounds like Quinn finally disrupted their scheme by pulling on their defensive formation with his dribbling. I didn’t see it, but my suspicion (and some of the DBR description) is that his dribbling wasn’t necessarily to-goal during this time. This is contrary to his usual nature, and I would guess that it was due to Coach K calling for stall-offense, not a decision by Quinn (though I’ll be a pleased puppy if this was really Quinn figuring out on his own how to break the defense apart). Regarding the Top10, I really appreciate the Louisville guards’ abilities to disrupt defenses via dribbling. I have also seen Craft do the same thing, too, but with passing. He will set up passes and his own movement, not to directly get a basket, but to set the offensive-defensive balance in a different manner for a subsequent attack.

3. Within-play flexibility: Similar to #2, it is relatively unlikely that Quinn will de-commit from executing an attack he has already started. If he starts a drive, he will typically attempt to finish the attack, via drive or dish for a shot (again, an intense focus on the end-game). As far as I recall, it is rare for him to drive in and continue to dribble right on out of the lane if things don’t look good. Perhaps I should comment that it doesn’t seem like Quinn forces very much action on the whole. But, once he does start an attack action, he’s likely to follow through. Obviously, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but veterans tend to have more flexibility, less tunnel-vision toward the end goal.

4. Completing plays without the ball: I don’t know if this one is true or not because I’m limited by tv angles. Putting together the above characteristics, though, I would guess that Quinn has a tendency to pause at the end of plays. There have been some plays on tv where Quinn finishes his part of the play and hesitates for a moment, watching the completion of the play. This is a factor of the above characteristics because 1. in his mind, once the play is headed to the basket, that’s where it will end and 2. it is important for him to witness the play because he uses the external factors (eg watching us score) to drive his internal motor. Even if it is true, I don’t know of any specific times that it came back to hurt us (like him not getting the rebound or not getting back on D)….though I am curious if he got himself in positions to get the ball back from Mason after the Davidson double-teams. Anyway, (if it’s true), it would be more veteran of him to continue to participate in the play through to the play’s completion.

5. Dictating play (This is the most important quality to me, and one that some in the Top10 possess): It seems to me that our opponents are often dictating the style and play in games. I do think Quinn exerts his presence on the game. In fact, I think that Quinn, to this point, sets the tone for Duke. I don’t view his presence, though, as a complex/strategic presence. Due to his immaturity, the presence is one of expediency. I’ll go out alone on a limb here and say that I do not think we run an “inside-out” offense as has been the common rhetoric. I think we, like Quinn individually, are focused on getting the bucket in the most expedient way possible (within Duke’s usual recent spread motion offense). We take what is given. This has worked well because we are so very good at taking it!! Unfortunately, in my view, it has also led to a relatively underdeveloped sense of offensive identity and inconsistency within the offense itself. Moreover, it allows the other teams to dictate play. It’s crazy amazing that we continue to win despite going against teams’ desired defensive strategies.

In summary, the way I see Quinn’s game, I think there are areas that could improve substantially with experience. And, I do think recognition would follow.

Great post! I do think you're being a tad overcritical, but I like your analysis, and agree with you on several points, mainly #1 and #2.

I've always been a Quinn Cook supporter, and I do think despite his flaws, he has to be in the conversation for top 10 PG in the nation. The nit picks you mentioned are all mental things that good coaching and diligent film study will eventually correct, maybe as soon as this year.

As far as his impact on this team, I think he's our 2nd most valuable player. As many as have said, Quinn's huge improvement this year is the biggest reason for our success thus far, and he's only going to get better. Mason is obviously the one guy who we can least afford to lose, and he has also improved in a number of ways, but Quinn is really the biggest reason our offense is the #2 most efficient offense in the countryand if that doesn't make him a top 10 PG, then I don't what will.