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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    There are certainly some other worthy candidates out there (I'd put Oladipo above Zeller in the Hoosier race, but both of those guys are having great seasons on a national contender), but Mason's case is as good as anyone's, and better than most. Given that there are now multiple NPOY awards, if Mason continues to play at the level he has so far this season, I have to think he'd get one.

    Which then would bring us to the next question:

    A player stays four years and graduates in excellent academic standing.
    Wins an NPOY award.
    Leads Duke to the ACC and National Championships in his senior year (the power of positive thinking)

    But, for his first 3 seasons had a good career at Duke, marred by inconsistency.

    Well...it might make for an interesting discussion regarding where to hang the laundry...
    No discussion, in my opinion. Mason goes in the Hall of Honor, but not in the rafters of Cameron. One glorious season, two solid seasons, and an okay freshman season do not make for a jersey retirement.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    There are certainly some other worthy candidates out there (I'd put Oladipo above Zeller in the Hoosier race, but both of those guys are having great seasons on a national contender), but Mason's case is as good as anyone's, and better than most. Given that there are now multiple NPOY awards, if Mason continues to play at the level he has so far this season, I have to think he'd get one.

    Which then would bring us to the next question:

    A player stays four years and graduates in excellent academic standing.
    Wins an NPOY award.
    Leads Duke to the ACC and National Championships in his senior year (the power of positive thinking)

    But, for his first 3 seasons had a good career at Duke, marred by inconsistency.

    Well...it might make for an interesting discussion regarding where to hang the laundry...
    A solid citizen and graduate who wins multiple National Player of the Year awards in 2013 an automatic "jersey in the rafters." I don't think another National Championship for Mason is necessary for the honor, although it would sure be nice. And I wouldn't write off his first three years. Last year he was a third-team All-ACC selection.

    sagegrouse

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    DC and DE Beach

    Progress continues

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    No discussion, in my opinion. Mason goes in the Hall of Honor, but not in the rafters of Cameron. One glorious season, two solid seasons, and an okay freshman season do not make for a jersey retirement.
    I prefer not to throw in the towel yet. Why assume a lid on his progress and accomplishments??

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    No discussion, in my opinion. Mason goes in the Hall of Honor, but not in the rafters of Cameron. One glorious season, two solid seasons, and an okay freshman season do not make for a jersey retirement.
    I'm split. On the one hand, winning National Player of the Year while leading your team to the national championship and graduating should be automatic jersey retirement, period, no questions asked. However, it'd still be tough for me to view his overall career as better than Scheyer's, Singler's, or Nolan's.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Winterville, NC
    The media seems obsessed with guards like Burke and Olidipo, but Mason, with all due respect to Curry, is carrying this team after a big loss to injury. I hope the writers start turning their attention back to him. Keep up the 20 & 10 games Mason!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by wgl1228 View Post
    The media seems obsessed with guards like Burke and Olidipo, but Mason, with all due respect to Curry, is carrying this team after a big loss to injury. I hope the writers start turning their attention back to him. Keep up the 20 & 10 games Mason!
    That's the truth. We lost one of the keys to our success. Kelly stretched the floor; this opened up the lane tremendously for Mason. Meanwhile since Kelly has been out, Mason's averaging 19 & 10, with count them TWO 30+ point games. POY in my book.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by westwall View Post
    I prefer not to throw in the towel yet. Why assume a lid on his progress and accomplishments??
    I'm not assuming a lid on his accomplishments this year. I'm saying that, even with a national player of the year and national championship this year, I don't believe that Mason's career is worthy of jersey retirement.

    Essentially, those arguing in favor of Mason's jersey retirement would be arguing that one season is enough to merit such an honor. I'm of the belief that a player's career is what gets you jersey retirement - not one singular phenomenal year.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I'm not assuming a lid on his accomplishments this year. I'm saying that, even with a national player of the year and national championship this year, I don't believe that Mason's career is worthy of jersey retirement.

    Essentially, those arguing in favor of Mason's jersey retirement would be arguing that one season is enough to merit such an honor. I'm of the belief that a player's career is what gets you jersey retirement - not one singular phenomenal year.
    Every Duke player to graduate and win NPOY has had their jersey retired. It's a streak going back to Dick Groat in '52 (when it was the Helms Award). Not retiring Mason would be an interesting development.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Durham Thunder View Post
    Every Duke player to graduate and win NPOY has had their jersey retired. It's a streak going back to Dick Groat in '52 (when it was the Helms Award). Not retiring Mason would be an interesting development.
    If he wins a single big NPOY, like the Wooden--which I think is likely if he averages 20/10 down the stretch while we lose no more than another game or two before the NCAA tournament--I'd be stunned if he didn't get a retirement. That's the unspoken rule, and we should know... we discuss it every year (or course, that's without external confirmation). If the criteria were "bachelor's degree and a likely lottery pick," Cameron's rafters would look like the back room at my dry cleaners.

  10. #30
    It has been a real joy watching Mason unlock his potential this year. Mason should be a top 2 contender for NPOY, and after a short respite a couple weeks ago he has returned to his dominant self.

    If nothing else, though, the Duke staff can point to Mason this year to refute the ludicrous argument that Duke bigs only set screens. Yes, they set screens on the perimeter (largely because they are athletic enough to get out there and set a screen), but they also get free reign to run the post so long as they have shown the ability to do so.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  11. #31
    The other side is: who's better?

    If I had to pick today, I'd think Trey Burke and Victor Oladipo are the only other players deserving. Deshaun Thomas doesn't do a whole lot else besides score (as silly as it sounds, you know what I mean).

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Another thing that Mason does for us is draw a lot of fouls. Not only does it get the other teams' big men into foul trouble, it helps us get into the bonus and those freebies are often huge for us down the stretch in tight games. Last night's game is a perfect example. Thank goodness we were in the double bonus the last time Mason went to the line because his 2nd free throw after missing the first provided our margin of victory.
    I'm not sure how the other candidates do in this area but I'm pretty sure Mason draws more fouls than Burke or Oladipo.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    No discussion, in my opinion. Mason goes in the Hall of Honor, but not in the rafters of Cameron. One glorious season, two solid seasons, and an okay freshman season do not make for a jersey retirement.
    I thought there were two criteria: winning a NPOY award, and graduating. Pretty sure I heard Dick Brodhead say that at JJ's and Sheldon's jersey retirements, both of which I attended. Are we retroactively adding more criteria in Mason's case?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by cptnflash View Post
    I thought there were two criteria: winning a NPOY award, and graduating. Pretty sure I heard Dick Brodhead say that at JJ's and Sheldon's jersey retirements, both of which I attended. Are we retroactively adding more criteria in Mason's case?
    Isn't such an honor based on a career? If Mason graduates and is NPOY, then hasn't he had a retirement career? He was (and played) on a National Champion team. He has improved every year at Duke. IMO (never humble), if he is NPOY and graduates he is deserving of having 5 in the rafters.

  15. #35
    With a NPOY award in hand but short a national title, I would have a hard time saying that Mason had a better career at Duke than Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith, or Jon Scheyer. Sorry... I just can't say that.

  16. #36
    He still consistently gets burned on defense. Opposing big men often have their way with Mason. Mason is a good player, and a key member of our team, but I don't think he's NPOY material. I am thrilled with his improved FT shooting!

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by cptnflash View Post
    I thought there were two criteria: winning a NPOY award, and graduating. Pretty sure I heard Dick Brodhead say that at JJ's and Sheldon's jersey retirements, both of which I attended. Are we retroactively adding more criteria in Mason's case?
    Nope. None of Hurley, Gminski, Mullins, or Shelden Williams won the National Player of the Year award.

    There is no specific criteria for jersey retirement. But players who had far better careers than Mason don't have their jerseys retired. It's intended to be a VERY exclusive club. Giving it to a guy who has had just one great year just doesn't make sense.

    Scheyer, Singler, Smith, Spanarkel, Banks, and Alarie all had better careers than Mason. None have their jersey retired.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I'm not assuming a lid on his accomplishments this year. I'm saying that, even with a national player of the year and national championship this year, I don't believe that Mason's career is worthy of jersey retirement.

    Essentially, those arguing in favor of Mason's jersey retirement would be arguing that one season is enough to merit such an honor. I'm of the belief that a player's career is what gets you jersey retirement - not one singular phenomenal year.

    On POY, Mason is absolutely right there in the mix. He does need to finish the Regular Season strong though. Which I think he will.

    As for jersey retirement. I am tougher than most on that subject. To me, that honor is available only to those who have All-ACC level type play from Freshman season thru at least Junior season, preferably thru Senior year. Not saying they have to make at least 3rd team All ACC as a freshman, but they need to be in the mix, and certainly have to be in K's rotation every single year. Even if they don't earn one of the NPOY, they should be a first team All American at least once. National Champion is not a requirement but carries a lot of weight.

    With those requirements, Scheyer and Singler were really, really close. I honestly feel that the only thing that kept 12 out of the rafters was a horrid performance behind the 3 point line his Senior Year. If Kyle had just shot it from 3 as a Senior the way he did as a Junior, it would have boosted his scoring average, and probably helped avoid a couple of those regular season losses. He shot it well from 2, but one of life's great mysteries for me will always be what happened to his 3 point shot in that one season.

    Had Scheyer sustained his play in his Senior year and nailed down one of the NPOY awards, I think that would have put him over the top too. The first half of that season he was there. His shooting slumps in that second half of the year, hurt his numbers just enough to where he fell short.

    I love Nolan and he will forever be one of my favorite Duke players ever, but his Freshman and Sophomore seasons eliminate him in my view. He came of age one year too late.

    No offense meant to any of our players. Many that did not achieve the honor were great players, but the bar should be really high, and should be reserved for the best of the best. Just my two cents and I respect the views of those that feel differently.

  19. #39
    To me what's important is where a players finishes.

    What you guys are essentially saying is that unless a player comes to Duke already a very good player to begin with, they should never have their jersey retired. Because if they start out only decent, and over the course of the their career works hard to become a great player by the time they are a senior, then they don't deserve it because "they only had one great season, and 2 or 3 decent to good season". Really? Is that really what you are advocating? That only players who came to Duke already great should get it but players who improve themselves while at Duke shouldn't.

    I'm not saying he should have his jersey retired. Too much still hinges on what he does the rest of this season. I just don't think he's chances should be dismissed based on the idea that he only had one great season.

    Also, Mason was first team Academic All-American last year, only the 4th Duke player in history to get those honors and the first since Shane over a decade ago, does that count for some thing?

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    On POY, Mason is absolutely right there in the mix. He does need to finish the Regular Season strong though. Which I think he will.

    As for jersey retirement. I am tougher than most on that subject. To me, that honor is available only to those who have All-ACC level type play from Freshman season thru at least Junior season, preferably thru Senior year. Not saying they have to make at least 3rd team All ACC as a freshman, but they need to be in the mix, and certainly have to be in K's rotation every single year. Even if they don't earn one of the NPOY, they should be a first team All American at least once. National Champion is not a requirement but carries a lot of weight.

    With those requirements, Scheyer and Singler were really, really close. I honestly feel that the only thing that kept 12 out of the rafters was a horrid performance behind the 3 point line his Senior Year. If Kyle had just shot it from 3 as a Senior the way he did as a Junior, it would have boosted his scoring average, and probably helped avoid a couple of those regular season losses. He shot it well from 2, but one of life's great mysteries for me will always be what happened to his 3 point shot in that one season.

    Had Scheyer sustained his play in his Senior year and nailed down one of the NPOY awards, I think that would have put him over the top too. The first half of that season he was there. His shooting slumps in that second half of the year, hurt his numbers just enough to where he fell short.

    I love Nolan and he will forever be one of my favorite Duke players ever, but his Freshman and Sophomore seasons eliminate him in my view. He came of age one year too late.

    No offense meant to any of our players. Many that did not achieve the honor were great players, but the bar should be really high, and should be reserved for the best of the best. Just my two cents and I respect the views of those that feel differently.
    I tend to agree with your general sentiment here, and agree that Scheyer and Singler were closer than Smith and (presumably) Mason. But you do realize that your criteria would have excluded two players who have their jerseys retired (Ferry and Williams), right? That being said, I'd be much more supportive of your criteria than letting Mason in based almost entirely on just one great season.

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