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  1. #61
    The twitterverse says Youklilis has signed on the dotted line and crossed over. Will Joba Chamberlain become the first pitcher to intentionally bean his third baseman on an attempted pickoff throw?
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  2. #62
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    I love that I'm now supposed to feel sorry for the poor widdle New York Yankees on the basis of their financials.

    Let's have a bake sale for this vulnerable, forlorn franchise. I nominate Billy Beane to run it.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I love that I'm now supposed to feel sorry for the poor widdle New York Yankees on the basis of their financials.
    They might have the 3rd or 4th highest payroll in all of baseball. Oh the humanity!!!!!

    --Jason "I wonder how Miami Marlin fans feel right now... if there are any left" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Let's have a bake sale for this vulnerable, forlorn franchise. I nominate Billy Beane to run it.
    Sorry, I was unclear. I was referring to Beane running the bake sale, not the franchise.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  5. #65

    moreYankees

    Just to be clear, I as not asking for sympathy for the Yankee fans ... just trying to make clear that it's a new era (at least for he time being).

    The Yankees did sign Youkilis -- but as projected, it was a one-year deal. Almost everything they've done this off-season has been one year -- one year deals for Pettite and Rivera too. It's quite clear that they are serious about avoiding the payroll tax in 2014.

    Reportedly close to a deal for Ichiro Suzuki -- he enjoyed his six weeks in New York and wants to play there for another year.

    Also rumblings that the Yankees want to deal Granderson -- low average, but good power and good RBI numbers. Still a good (not great) defender in center.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Just to be clear, I as not asking for sympathy for the Yankee fans ... just trying to make clear that it's a new era (at least for he time being).

    The Yankees did sign Youkilis -- but as projected, it was a one-year deal. Almost everything they've done this off-season has been one year -- one year deals for Pettite and Rivera too. It's quite clear that they are serious about avoiding the payroll tax in 2014.

    Reportedly close to a deal for Ichiro Suzuki -- he enjoyed his six weeks in New York and wants to play there for another year.

    Also rumblings that the Yankees want to deal Granderson -- low average, but good power and good RBI numbers. Still a good (not great) defender in center.
    They may just hang onto Granderson because he's in the final year of his contract and they'll get a sandwich pick for him in the draft like they will for Swish and Soriano. My feeling is they'll get under the cap for 2014 then back to their spending ways because the clock will have been reset. There was a post earlier about the potential loss in YES revenue with all this belt tightening going on. He was spot on if it continues but all it takes is one free spending year to get the frenzy in full force again.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Just to be clear, I as not asking for sympathy for the Yankee fans ... just trying to make clear that it's a new era (at least for he time being).

    The Yankees did sign Youkilis -- but as projected, it was a one-year deal. Almost everything they've done this off-season has been one year -- one year deals for Pettite and Rivera too. It's quite clear that they are serious about avoiding the payroll tax in 2014.

    Reportedly close to a deal for Ichiro Suzuki -- he enjoyed his six weeks in New York and wants to play there for another year.

    Also rumblings that the Yankees want to deal Granderson -- low average, but good power and good RBI numbers. Still a good (not great) defender in center.
    As a Mets fan (although a router generally for all NY teams), I certainly have no sympathy for the Yanks. However, it does seem ridiculous to me in the name of "equity" for some owners to reap the revenue-sharing benefits whilst lowballing aggregate payroll...thus dropping such payments directly to the bottom line. They've discussed (not sure how seriously) a floor on payroll. That just seems to make sense to me...

    The NY Post reported this morning on the Ichiro "deal." I still don't know, however, how they can go into 2013 without a ML catcher. And...there are rumblings in the NY papers about Cano leaving after his contract concludes...Interesting year(s) for Yankee fans.

    We'll just bottom fish in Queens for a while. At least until some of the contracts come off the books after this year (notably Santana).

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by duke74 View Post
    As a Mets fan (although a router generally for all NY teams), I certainly have no sympathy for the Yanks. However, it does seem ridiculous to me in the name of "equity" for some owners to reap the revenue-sharing benefits whilst lowballing aggregate payroll...thus dropping such payments directly to the bottom line. They've discussed (not sure how seriously) a floor on payroll. That just seems to make sense to me...
    There is some disqualification of revenue sharing based on market size in the latest cba. In 2013, the top 15 teams by market size (with the exception that Oakland is exempt until they get a new stadium), will forfeit 25% of what they would otherwise get in revenue sharing. That % increases to 50% in 2014, 75% in 2015 and 100% in 2016. So it doesn't address the payroll issue you raise, but it does penalize teams for squandering the benefit of existing in a large market. That money is rebated to the net payers of revenue sharing, provided such payers are under the luxury tax threshold (and it varies by how many years they've been under the threshold). This had led some to speculate that the Yankees may try to limit payroll not just in 2014, but for the entire 2014 - 2016 period. This rebate of revenue sharing would not be as significant as re-setting the luxury tax clock by being under in just 2014, but a million here, a million there, soon enough it's real enough money for the Steinbrenner boys to care about.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    The Yankees did sign Youkilis -- but as projected, it was a one-year deal. Almost everything they've done this off-season has been one year -- one year deals for Pettite and Rivera too. It's quite clear that they are serious about avoiding the payroll tax in 2014.

    Reportedly close to a deal for Ichiro Suzuki -- he enjoyed his six weeks in New York and wants to play there for another year.
    This makes sense given that said individuals are all medicare-eligible.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  10. #70
    Since being 4th in runs scored, forking over Croesus' treasure to get Pujols, and having super-duper stud Trout for a looong time before FA kicks in isn't enough, the Angels have reportedly signed Josh Hamilton for $125MM over 5 years.

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/s...ls-source-says
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    Since being 4th in runs scored, forking over Croesus' treasure to get Pujols, and having super-duper stud Trout for a looong time before FA kicks in isn't enough, the Angels have reportedly signed Josh Hamilton for $125MM over 5 years.

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/s...ls-source-says
    Cable tv in LA is going to be expensive. If neither LA team makes the playoffs again, there will be blood, although now I'd say the Angels are the favorite over the Rangers and A's.

  12. #72
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    I can think of no better place for a person like Josh Hamilton, who is prone to excess and things that -- well -- enhance your enjoyment of the moment, than LA. He is certainly going to thrive in that city.

    I am mostly kidding -- but this is a dude who is fragile. I would thing a smaller market with slightly less expectations might have made more sense for him.

    -Jason "Wish him well and hope he doesn't get caught up in the cycle of drug/alcohol abuse again" Evans
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    The most recent Yankee dynasty -- from 1996-2001 -- was mostly a product of the farm system and trades (real trades, not the phony kind where the yankees deal a few secondary players to get a big payroll guy his old team couldn't afford).

    It was not just the "Core Four" -- Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera and Posada -- but also Bernie Williams, the best player on those early teams, were all guys who came up the Yankee system. So was starting LF Gerald Williams. Paul O'Neill was the product of a real trade for Roberto Kelly -- a trade many blasted the Yankees for. Tino Martinez came in a trade with the Mariners.

    There were some free agents, but mostly marginal guys -- both Gooden and Strawberry had been big stars, but the Yankees picked them up cheap coming off drug problems. They were role players. They got Boggs as a FA in 1993, coming off a terrible year that saw his value drop. I guess the closest they got to a big free agent on that first team was David Cone -- they actually traded for him in midseason 1995, then had to sign him as a free agent the next fall -- he was coming off a 17-17 season that kept the cost down a bit.

    Steinbrenner's suspension definitely helped Michael hold on to the young core of his team. Once the Yankees starting winning, the payroll skyrocketed -- both because the Yankees had to pay their big stars to keep them and because George started rolling the dice on free agents. But even as late as 2001, the team was still basically home grown (or assembled traditionally). There was an expensive free agent pitcher in Mike Mussina and while Roger Clemens came in trade (for a couple of real prospects, including Boomer Wells), that was the kind of deal that was driven by the fact that Toronto couldn't pay his salary demands. El Duke was also a free agent out of Cuba, but the Yankees got him cheap (less than $1 million for his first year).

    Ubviously, that changed over the last decade. But I would argue that the only pennant that the Yankees successfully BOUGHT was 2009 -- Sabathia, Burnett and Teixera were all huge free agent pickups in the offseason and A-Roid -- the product of an unbalanced trade (although the Yankees did give up Soriano) all played a role.

    The scary thing for Yankee fans now is that the farm system isn't exactly loaded. A lot of hype for Banuelos and Bettances, two young pitchers, but both suffered physical setbacks last year. There's not a lot there to deal and with the roster aging rapidly, where do the Yankees turn? With management unwilling to jump on the free agent merry-go-round, it looks like Cashman will try to fill the cracks in the team with a lost of minor free agents. They've gotten some good play from modest purchases in recent years (Eric Chavez, Bartolo Colon, Freddie Garcia, Andruw Jones) but how far will that go?

    The AL East is a jungle these days -- and the Yankees are no longer the scariest cat out there.
    Here is a good summary of the Yankees' top prospects. Despite the top four being position players, I think the key for the Yankees in terms of their future is their pitching prospects. They appear to be set for next season with Sabathia, Pettitte, Kuroda, Hughes and Nova (and Phelps ready to step in). But they also have some intriguing pitching prospects who have been described as potential "top of rotation" guys - including Pineda, Banuelos, Bentances, and Campos (also part of the Pineda deal). Unfortunately there are serious physical questions for all of them. If some or all of them can prove they are major league caliber starters, the Yankees will be able to build around pitching or trade some or all of them for younger bats. If not, I think their only option for staying competitive will be to spend more money than they appear to be willing to during this off season.
    Singler is IRON

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  14. #74

    Physical issues

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    Here is a good summary of the Yankees' top prospects. Despite the top four being position players, I think the key for the Yankees in terms of their future is their pitching prospects. They appear to be set for next season with Sabathia, Pettitte, Kuroda, Hughes and Nova (and Phelps ready to step in). But they also have some intriguing pitching prospects who have been described as potential "top of rotation" guys - including Pineda, Banuelos, Bentances, and Campos (also part of the Pineda deal). Unfortunately there are serious physical questions for all of them. If some or all of them can prove they are major league caliber starters, the Yankees will be able to build around pitching or trade some or all of them for younger bats. If not, I think their only option for staying competitive will be to spend more money than they appear to be willing to during this off season.
    The problem for the Yankees is that there are physical issues for so many key guys.

    It starts with their best starter (Sabathia) and their Hall of Fame reliever (Rivera). It continues with their best young arm -- Pineda -- and continues with their second best young arm -- Nova. And, as you note, there are physical issues for their best minor league pitching prospects.

    Now, I'm sure some -- maybe even most -- of these guys will be okay, but will all od them?

    Plus, there are plenty of position players trying to come back from injury -- Jeter says he'll be ready for opening day, but he's still wearing a boot. Teixera ended the season hurt. Gardner was just coming back from injury. Cervilli had a problem. And that list is obviously headed by A-Roid, who will at best miss half the season.

    The Yankees still have a lot of talent, but right now, it's a physically fragile franchise ... I guess that's a function of having so many aging stars.

  15. #75
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    I am very disappointed that Josh Hamilton went west instead of east. Ever since his home run derby performance in the old Yankee Stadium, I have drooled over seeing him roam CF for the Yankees. Bad year for budget constraints by Hank Steinbrenner.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I am very disappointed that Josh Hamilton went west instead of east. Ever since his home run derby performance in the old Yankee Stadium, I have drooled over seeing him roam CF for the Yankees. Bad year for budget constraints by Hank Steinbrenner.
    Rest assured that fans of the other 29 teams are just, [sigh], our hearts are breaking for you and your suffering.

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    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I am very disappointed that Josh Hamilton went west instead of east. Ever since his home run derby performance in the old Yankee Stadium, I have drooled over seeing him roam CF for the Yankees. Bad year for budget constraints by Hank Steinbrenner.
    "Went west?" He was west already. Plus, there are teams in the west who know how to play against him since they've seen him so much. I know the A's respect Hamilton, but he's a normal opponent. Nothing will really change for them when Josh changes uniforms. Batting order? The A's pitching staff generally laughs at such issues. They just pitch. Pujols? Hamilton? Pick your poison. And they will--happily and probably successfully. Never any guarantees, but...

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I am very disappointed that Josh Hamilton went west instead of east. Ever since his home run derby performance in the old Yankee Stadium, I have drooled over seeing him roam CF for the Yankees. Bad year for budget constraints by Hank Steinbrenner.
    The problem was that he wasn't old enough. He'll be 37, I believe, at the end of his Angels contract, and at that time, he will be ready to join the Yankees.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I am very disappointed that Josh Hamilton went west instead of east. Ever since his home run derby performance in the old Yankee Stadium, I have drooled over seeing him roam CF for the Yankees. Bad year for budget constraints by Hank Steinbrenner.
    You will just have to made do in CF with Curtis Granderson and his paltry 40+ homeruns and 100+ RBIs. I don't know how you will survive.

    -Jason "never, ever, ever complain about another team signing free-agents... NEVER" Evans
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  20. #80
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    See as we have talked about it so much, here is a just-released report on payrolls and teams paying the luxury tax. The Yankees will pay almost $19 mil in luxury tax this year, the only team in baseball paying a tax. The Phillies, Boston, and the Angels all managed to just barely stay under the tax threshold.

    -Jason "the Dodgers and Angels are both going to bust through the lux tax barrier next season... like it wasn't even there" Evans
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