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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!

    NBA Off-Season moves

    This shall be the collector thread for all discussions of trades and free agent moves.

    I get it started with this shocker... the Hawks are trading perennial All-Star Joe Johnson (who happens to have one of the worst contracts in basketball) to the NJ Nets for a collection of expiring contracts, a 2013 protected first-round pick, and a bag of magic beans.

    The Brooklyn Nets have acquired Joe Johnson from the Atlanta Hawks for Jordan Farmar, Anthony Morrow, Johan Petro, Jordan Williams and a 2013 protected first-round draft pick originally owned by the Houston Rockets.
    -Jason "Danny Ferry making bold moves! Is he trying to make the Hawks really bad so they get some decent draft picks and then get good again?" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    This shall be the collector thread for all discussions of trades and free agent moves.

    I get it started with this shocker... the Hawks are trading perennial All-Star Joe Johnson (who happens to have one of the worst contracts in basketball) to the NJ Nets for a collection of expiring contracts, a 2013 protected first-round pick, and a bag of magic beans.



    -Jason "Danny Ferry making bold moves! Is he trying to make the Hawks really bad so they get some decent draft picks and then get good again?" Evans
    WOW! What a salary dump! Of course $22.25/yr for 4 yrs is a lot, even for an all-star, if you can't get the team to at least the conference finals.

    Was JJ a defensive liability?

    This leaves the Brooklyn Nets with nothing to trade for Howard. Is there any way they can re-sign Williams and still sign Howard next year?

    Billy King is the Nets GM right? Wonder if Stern reviews these deals more closely?

  3. #3
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    Mar 2008
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    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I get it started with this shocker... the Hawks are trading perennial All-Star Joe Johnson (who happens to have one of the worst contracts in basketball) to the NJ Nets for a collection of expiring contracts, a 2013 protected first-round pick, and a bag of magic beans.
    Hey, don't knock magic beans. I read a children's story once where three magic beans were planted in the ground and grew overnight into John Henson.

  4. #4
    I love the deal for the Hawks. We were never going to be anything better than a first (maybe second) round playoff team. The Johnson contract is an albatross, and I am glad to see it go. I'm sure we will be terrible for the next year or two (or three) but at least we can position ourselves for a good pick in the draft - the potential to get a game changer (perhaps like Jabari Parker - one can dream right?).
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  5. #5
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    Jul 2009
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    Durham, NC
    The Hawks are now in play for Dwight next summer by freeing up cap space and offering him the chance to play in his hometown with his friend Josh Smith. Still, Josh Smith wasn't happy with the Hawks before JJ left - not sure he likes the fact they're trying to start over. I know the Magic would love to get Josh Smith to try to attract Dwight to stay.

    The Dwightmare is one complicated chess game.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA

    Ferry off to a great start

    Ferry got rid of one the most toxic contracts in the NBA. He got only got rid of Johnson, but also got a ton of expiring contracts and a first year contract? Also, he got rid of Marvin Williams, who was one of the most disappointing second picks in the history of the NBA. The only thing that would have been better would be if he traded both players to the Bobcats and showed the NBA who's GMs are more cerebral.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    1. December 10, 1988.
    2. Today?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    1. December 10, 1988.
    2. Today?
    I'll admit it took me some google work to figure out what the date meant. Brilliant stuff, Duvall!

    The notion that Ferry got rid of JJ and Marvin Williams' contracts on the same day... flabbergasting. He has been on the job less than a week and there is little question he is the best GM in Hawks history. I mean, today is probably the best day for a Hawks GM since September 1982 when the Hawks traded drug-addict John Drew to Utah for the draft rights to a rookie named Dominique Wilkens.

    -Jason "I have not read a lot of the stories on it, but most sportswriters seem to really like these moves for the Hawks" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Oh, and there is already talk that the Hawks will have so much cap space that they could be players next summer to sign 2 stars... such as Dwight Howard (from Atlanta and good friends with Josh Smith) and Chris Paul.

    Yeah, I am a bit giddy!

    -Jason "Yahoo article" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Oh, and there is already talk that the Hawks will have so much cap space that they could be players next summer to sign 2 stars... such as Dwight Howard (from Atlanta and good friends with Josh Smith) and Chris Paul.

    Yeah, I am a bit giddy!

    -Jason "Yahoo article" Evans
    It's accurate to say that I haven't been more excited about the Hawks in my adult life. I'll admit, I'm a little skeptical about Ferry's first draft as head of the Hawks. But honestly, what he's done since then is so incredibly amazing that the draft is ancient history. Now, Hawks fans can dream about adding top-tier stars to the team. What's even better, though, is that even if the Hawks can't land the big free agents, Ferry has given the team enough flexibility to put together a completely new team with (presumably) smart cap management.

    But let me jump into fantasy land for a little bit. I just want to dream about how amazing a Smith/Howard front court would be on the defensive end! Howard is such a force on defense that he can turn an average defensive team into a really good one all by himself. However, if he were to come to the Hawks and join Smith, you'd have two of the best front court defenders in the world on the same team.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    WOW! What a salary dump! Of course $22.25/yr for 4 yrs is a lot, even for an all-star, if you can't get the team to at least the conference finals.

    Was JJ a defensive liability?

    This leaves the Brooklyn Nets with nothing to trade for Howard. Is there any way they can re-sign Williams and still sign Howard next year?

    Billy King is the Nets GM right? Wonder if Stern reviews these deals more closely?
    To quote the sage Lee Corso: "not so fast, my friend."

    Reports are that the Magic are discussing a sign-and-trade deal with the Nets of Howard for Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and 3 1st round picks.

    Still a good move for the Hawks in that Johnson was being paid like a superstar but playing like a complementary player. And the pieces they had in place locked them into a middle of the road team. Now, they're a potential (though unlikely) player for Howard but in any case will have some flexibility to rebuild moving forward.

    If true (and if it comes to fruition), this could be one of those rare trades that ultimately helps both teams. Atlanta gets out from under a terrible contract to rebuild, while the Nets put together an interesting starting lineup for the next few years:
    Howard
    ??
    Wallace
    Johnson
    Williams

    That group, with whomever they could get at PF, would probably become the #2 team in the East, with a reasonable chance to beat the Heat in a playoff series.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    For Dwifght Howard the calculus may be-- do you want to play in Brooklyn next season with Deron Williams and Joe Johnson or do you want to play in Atlanta in 2 years with Josh Smith, Al Horford, and someone else (maybe... maybe Chris Paul)? Which combo has a better shot at unseating the Heat and giving Dwight the ring he desperately wants?

    -Jason "whatever Howard decides to do, the Hawks have options... and that is a great gift Mr. Ferry has given us" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Reports are that the Magic are discussing a sign-and-trade deal with the Nets of Howard for Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and 3 1st round picks.
    Really interesting moves by the Nets here. Prior to the Joe Johnson trade, I thought the smarter play for them would have been to wait until next year and sign Howard as a free agent, that way they don't have to trade away their whole team to get him. What good is Howard if he has no one to play with? And he's already publicly stated that he wants to go to the Nets, so there's not too much fear of him going somewhere else. But now that the Nets have Johnson, they must feel that they have enough to contend, and that signing Howard would be enough to convince Deron Williams to stay.

    After the success Miami has had, I can see other teams trying to emulate this model of signing three superstars who want to play with each other, possibly even for less money, and then surrounding them with minimum contract players (or players with veterans' exceptions and what-not).

  14. #14
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    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Really interesting moves by the Nets here. Prior to the Joe Johnson trade, I thought the smarter play for them would have been to wait until next year and sign Howard as a free agent, that way they don't have to trade away their whole team to get him. What good is Howard if he has no one to play with? And he's already publicly stated that he wants to go to the Nets, so there's not too much fear of him going somewhere else. But now that the Nets have Johnson, they must feel that they have enough to contend, and that signing Howard would be enough to convince Deron Williams to stay.

    After the success Miami has had, I can see other teams trying to emulate this model of signing three superstars who want to play with each other, possibly even for less money, and then surrounding them with minimum contract players (or players with veterans' exceptions and what-not).
    It does appear to be the new model of doing business in the NBA. Which is why I'm frustrated with the Bulls' apparent decision not to blow things up with Rose out for most of next year. Building around Rose and (maybe) Noah and stockpiling 1st round picks and cap space for next offseason would have seemed the smarter play. Instead, they're heading towards Atlanta-like purgatory (note: Atlanta is quickly moving out of said purgatory) with a bunch of solid-but-very-overpaid players and one star.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    It does appear to be the new model of doing business in the NBA. Which is why I'm frustrated with the Bulls' apparent decision not to blow things up with Rose out for most of next year. Building around Rose and (maybe) Noah and stockpiling 1st round picks and cap space for next offseason would have seemed the smarter play. Instead, they're heading towards Atlanta-like purgatory (note: Atlanta is quickly moving out of said purgatory) with a bunch of solid-but-very-overpaid players and one star.
    I must disagree with you. Derrick Rose is 23 years old. By the time he makes it back, he'll be 24. By the time he's vintage Rose, he'll be 25 (if he ever gets back to his normal self). Noah is 27, and will soon be hitting his prime. Between Rose and Noah, there will be 3-4 solid years (2013-2016), and I personally feel that this is just not enough time to get it together. Rebuilding again is not an option. The Bulls have an amazing core right now in Rose, Noah, Deng, and a bunch of role players. They have made a few mistakes, such as Hamilton (injuries) and Boozer (contract doesn't equal production), but these are fixable (amnesty and trades).

    I don't think that the Atlanta comparison is a good one. Atlanta doesn't have a superstar like Rose who can potentially get them over the hump. While Atlanta has had some overpaid players, I don't believe that the Bulls are overpaying anyone with the exception of Boozer (Hamilton, if healthy, is definitely worth $5 mill a year and Deng, at $12 mill, is also a great option IMO).

    The priority for the Bulls needs to be Boozer, who is killing their cap room right now. Taj Gibson can certainly fill his place, and the Bulls can then go after a second- or third-banana at SG. Just me two cents...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #16
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    Jan 2009
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    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    It does appear to be the new model of doing business in the NBA. Which is why I'm frustrated with the Bulls' apparent decision not to blow things up with Rose out for most of next year. Building around Rose and (maybe) Noah and stockpiling 1st round picks and cap space for next offseason would have seemed the smarter play. Instead, they're heading towards Atlanta-like purgatory (note: Atlanta is quickly moving out of said purgatory) with a bunch of solid-but-very-overpaid players and one star.

    I don't know if I would say that just yet with the Bulls. I think it still remains to be seen how DRose recovers. If he comes back in February/March healthy, they could still be dangerous. The Hawks team from the last few years has been very different, mainly because they did not have a PG the caliber of Rose, but also a coach like Thibodeau, and even a fan base like Chicago. If the Bulls can lure someone like Brandon Roy or Jamal Crawford to Chicago for a little less money, they could still contend and then in 2014, shed Boozer's contract, trade Luol and basically start from scratch with Rose, Noah, and Taj. I'm not giving up just yet

  17. #17
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I must disagree with you. Derrick Rose is 23 years old. By the time he makes it back, he'll be 24. By the time he's vintage Rose, he'll be 25 (if he ever gets back to his normal self). Noah is 27, and will soon be hitting his prime. Between Rose and Noah, there will be 3-4 solid years (2013-2016), and I personally feel that this is just not enough time to get it together. Rebuilding again is not an option. The Bulls have an amazing core right now in Rose, Noah, Deng, and a bunch of role players. They have made a few mistakes, such as Hamilton (injuries) and Boozer (contract doesn't equal production), but these are fixable (amnesty and trades).

    I don't think that the Atlanta comparison is a good one. Atlanta doesn't have a superstar like Rose who can potentially get them over the hump. While Atlanta has had some overpaid players, I don't believe that the Bulls are overpaying anyone with the exception of Boozer (Hamilton, if healthy, is definitely worth $5 mill a year and Deng, at $12 mill, is also a great option IMO).

    The priority for the Bulls needs to be Boozer, who is killing their cap room right now. Taj Gibson can certainly fill his place, and the Bulls can then go after a second- or third-banana at SG. Just me two cents...
    What you've just described is pretty much exactly what I was suggesting we do in my "blow it up" scenario: amnesty Boozer, trade Deng for a lottery pick, take our lumps this season and get another lottery pick. Then, next offseason, we have two lottery picks, a superstar, a few strong complementary players in Noah and Gibson, and cap space to add to that. But there appears to be zero interest from the Bulls front office in amnestying Boozer for at least another year, and to be honest it doesn't make sense to do it for at least another year anyway (since amnestying him now doesn't get us substantially under the cap - just far enough away from the luxury tax).

    Instead, by holding on to Deng and not amnestying Boozer, we essentially end up in the same scenario. We aren't going to win it this coming year (too much uncertainty with Rose's knee). And by the following year Boozer will be dead weight, leaving us without enough firepower to win it. Then, Deng is a free agent and we amnesty Boozer. Unfortunately, we get to that same scenario without the two additional lottery picks to go along with Rose, Noah, and the cap space.

    The

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I must disagree with you. Derrick Rose is 23 years old. By the time he makes it back, he'll be 24. By the time he's vintage Rose, he'll be 25 (if he ever gets back to his normal self). Noah is 27, and will soon be hitting his prime. Between Rose and Noah, there will be 3-4 solid years (2013-2016), and I personally feel that this is just not enough time to get it together. Rebuilding again is not an option. The Bulls have an amazing core right now in Rose, Noah, Deng, and a bunch of role players. They have made a few mistakes, such as Hamilton (injuries) and Boozer (contract doesn't equal production), but these are fixable (amnesty and trades).

    I don't think that the Atlanta comparison is a good one. Atlanta doesn't have a superstar like Rose who can potentially get them over the hump. While Atlanta has had some overpaid players, I don't believe that the Bulls are overpaying anyone with the exception of Boozer (Hamilton, if healthy, is definitely worth $5 mill a year and Deng, at $12 mill, is also a great option IMO).

    The priority for the Bulls needs to be Boozer, who is killing their cap room right now. Taj Gibson can certainly fill his place, and the Bulls can then go after a second- or third-banana at SG. Just me two cents...

    I think Gar Forman and John Paxson are kicking themselves now with the signing of Boozer. He was a good player, but I think they panicked a bit and overpaid for him. With Hamilton, that was just bad. The guy was 32 coming off of 2 horrible seasons with the Pistons. They should have gone harder after Shannon Brown IMO.

  19. #19
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    How many years left on Boozer's contract?

  20. #20
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    How many years left on Boozer's contract?

    3 years left

    2012 $15,000,000
    2013 $15,300,000
    2014 $16,800,000
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

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