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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    That right there was a bon Motte.

    I salute you, Detroit. But the Braves had the NYY down 2-0 in 1996. Be ever vigilant.
    Yes, but did the '96 Yankees have 5 regulars hitting a combined 17 for 133 (that's an astounding .128) and a sixth -- their unquestioned leader -- out for the remainder? And about to go on the road to face the reigning (and possible repeat) Cy Young Award winner?

    The Yankees aren't out of it, but they've got to win 4 out of 5 at this point, with three of them on the road, including beating Verlander twice, with a lineup that is hitting at a historically bad rate, and has scored in only two of the 20 innings played so far in the series.

    Go Tigers!

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Yes, but did the '96 Yankees have 5 regulars hitting a combined 17 for 133 (that's an astounding .128) and a sixth -- their unquestioned leader -- out for the remainder? And about to go on the road to face the reigning (and possible repeat) Cy Young Award winner?

    The Yankees aren't out of it, but they've got to win 4 out of 5 at this point, with three of them on the road, including beating Verlander twice, with a lineup that is hitting at a historically bad rate, and has scored in only two of the 20 innings played so far in the series.

    Go Tigers!
    Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Yes, but did the '96 Yankees have 5 regulars hitting a combined 17 for 133 (that's an astounding .128) and a sixth -- their unquestioned leader -- out for the remainder? And about to go on the road to face the reigning (and possible repeat) Cy Young Award winner?
    No and yes, though they had to face three Cy Young Award winners instead of one.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    No and yes, though they had to face three Cy Young Award winners instead of one.
    True. And that Yankee team was, comparatively speaking, for that era a relatively pedestrian one. Good thing they had Jeffrey Maier.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    True. And that Yankee team was, comparatively speaking, for that era a relatively pedestrian one. Good thing they had Jeffrey Maier.
    Here's a stat for you. The Yanks in this postseason have scored 11 runs from the ninth inning on. They've scored a total of 8 in innings 1-8. The HR is quite a bit like the 3 pointer, you win or lose by it if your team is geared that way. It would not surprise me to see them shutout these next 2 games.

  6. #126
    Leyland's post game presser last night was interesting in that he laid out a warning to the DTW fans not to boo Valverde during his next appearance on the mound. Kind of K'esque in that 1) it's going to happen 2) I'm the coach 3) I'm sticking with my guy.

    I doubt the Yankee gets shut out again. The sight lines in Comerica are very clear. Detroit fans are all in all, pretty humble since we've had our hearts broken so many times and been the butt of jokes across all subjects.
    Something about that nyc booing of their own guys, even ARod, is sick-making.

    I prefer silent weeping and twisting my hankie in distress and then a big swoon on the divan.

  7. #127

    the yanks

    throaty, you give me hope ... 1996 is relevant.

    The Yankees lost their first two games in New York, scoring one run and garnering 11 hits in those two games. So they were even colder than they are now.

    in Game Three, they faced Cy Young winner Tom Glavine. In Game Five they faced Cy Young winner John Smoltz and in game six they faced Cy Young winner Greg Maddox. (In game Four they got a break with 16-game winner Denny Neagle).

    It's true that they didn't lose Derek Jeter, but their big bats were cold, COLD, COLD!! Tino Martinez hit 0.91 for the series. Darrell Stawberry hit .181, Paul O'Neil hit .167. Bernie Williams also hit .167.

    The Yankees won because they got clutch hits from a number of unexpected sources -- an unknown named Jim Leyritz delivered a couple of big blows and an over-the-hill DH named Cecil Fielder -- Prince's father -- was 9 of 23.

    It's obviously going to be tough. I don't think A-Roid is going to suddenly turn it around. He's been MIA since he returned from a broken wrist. But Cano, Teixera and Granderson could wake up as quickly as they went to sleep -- Cano was the hottest player in baseball going into the playoffs.

    I admit it is going to be tough. But momentum is a funny thing. We found that out against the Red Sox in 2004. So far, our pitching has been fine in all seven postseason games. The only problem is the silence of our big bats. That's got to change .. if it doesn't, we're dead. If it does ... well, it will still be tough, but we'll have a chance.

    Verlander is a tough hurdle, but over the years, he's been okay against the Yanks but not dominant (his career is 5-4 with a 3.74 ERA). In last year's ALDS the two teams split is two starts and Verlander's ERA was 5.00 ... in two starts against the Yankees this year, he was 1-1 with a 3.10 ERA.

    Not saying he's overrated or anything, but at least as far as the Yanks are concerned, he's no Frank Lary (now THERE was a Tiger pitcher who gave us fits).

    Beat Verlander in Game 3 and we're back in it and we pick up a little momentum.

    And going back to Detroit looks tough, but it should be noted that the road teams are 16-9 in post season this year. In fact, all three LCS games played so far have been won by the road team.

    So, yeah, we've still got a chance ... but I'd feel a lot better about it if the Captain was there.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug.I.Am View Post
    Here's a stat for you. The Yanks in this postseason have scored 11 runs from the ninth inning on. They've scored a total of 8 in innings 1-8. The HR is quite a bit like the 3 pointer, you win or lose by it if your team is geared that way. It would not surprise me to see them shutout these next 2 games.
    The difference being the 3 point line doesn't move in March and while it is true you'll see better defenses in March, most teams aren't defending the 3 any different. The problem with the home run is that you rely on bad pitching as much as good hitting. When you don't see 5th starters, might see a 4th starter and are facing some of the best staffs, you won't hit many homers. Add on a quick hook and you see better relief pitchers and the home runs disappear.

    Teams that can manufacture runs have consistently done better. Teams that can bunt, hit and run, make pitchers work, etc do better. Winning teams don't strike out and put the ball in play. Although bunting is starting to go out of style amongst sabermetrics guys, I think it is only a matter of time until you see a non MLB manager who relies on statistics. But there are certain trends, winning teams do especially when it comes to winning in October and I think you'll start seeing the reliance on the HR go out of style.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...02/1/index.htm

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    The difference being the 3 point line doesn't move in March and while it is true you'll see better defenses in March, most teams aren't defending the 3 any different. The problem with the home run is that you rely on bad pitching as much as good hitting. When you don't see 5th starters, might see a 4th starter and are facing some of the best staffs, you won't hit many homers. Add on a quick hook and you see better relief pitchers and the home runs disappear.

    Teams that can manufacture runs have consistently done better. Teams that can bunt, hit and run, make pitchers work, etc do better. Winning teams don't strike out and put the ball in play. Although bunting is starting to go out of style amongst sabermetrics guys, I think it is only a matter of time until you see a non MLB manager who relies on statistics. But there are certain trends, winning teams do especially when it comes to winning in October and I think you'll start seeing the reliance on the HR go out of style.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...02/1/index.htm
    I could argue in the NCAA tourney you play in more spacious arenas and the back drop is not as kind to the eye, but I wont. I agree with what you say. Add in the fact that it's cooler and the ball doesn't quite carry like it does in the summer. I don't mind a guy who hits 30 HR's but also hits .300. What I don't like is a guy like Granderson(this year) where his 43 dingers are impressive but the low .200 BA and high strikeout rate is simply bad stuff. As mentioned, these guys are simply trying way too hard and trying to do way too much.

    Weez - it is sickening but that's how it goes in NY. It's a what have you done for me lately kind of town, especially if you're in the middle of a 10 yr, 300 million dollar deal. Kay, Coney and Paulie were right last night, leaving NY could be the best thing to happen to the Yanks. We'll see tomorrow.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug.I.Am View Post
    Weez - it is sickening but that's how it goes in NY. It's a what have you done for me lately kind of town, especially if you're in the middle of a 10 yr, 300 million dollar deal. Kay, Coney and Paulie were right last night, leaving NY could be the best thing to happen to the Yanks. We'll see tomorrow.
    Especially considering the team is hearing more booing than cheering from the crowd right now.
    Pratt '14
    I was in Tent #1 all 4 years.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug.I.Am View Post
    I could argue in the NCAA tourney you play in more spacious arenas and the back drop is not as kind to the eye, but I wont. I agree with what you say. Add in the fact that it's cooler and the ball doesn't quite carry like it does in the summer. I don't mind a guy who hits 30 HR's but also hits .300. What I don't like is a guy like Granderson(this year) where his 43 dingers are impressive but the low .200 BA and high strikeout rate is simply bad stuff. As mentioned, these guys are simply trying way too hard and trying to do way too much.
    Fair enough and there is certainly more pressure in the NCAAT. I don't think either strategies are successful in one game situations b/c you need consistency. You have to be able to get to the line, get easy baskets in the NCAAT similarly you have to be able to advance guys, get them in from 3rd etc.

    But it was just amazing to watch the Cardinals against the Nats. They just battled away, made the pitchers make pitches, took walks and just put the ball in play. It seems this October, most hits aren't things of beauty but just hump back liners over the infielders which find gaps or go down the line a la the Cards.

    As far as Granderson, I'm sure playing in NY hasn't helped with the short porch. But I agree, that is why what Cabrera was able to do was amazing and I thought we'd never see it b/c so many guys have to or willingly sacrifice average for power. And as the announcers have continually harped on, the fact he had only 10 SBs when he should be a 30/30 guy is alarming.

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    But it was just amazing to watch the Cardinals against the Nats.
    Not to this Nats fan who was at the game, recording each pitch after two outs in the 9th, and is still devastated. Utterly deflating. Not only that, MLB sent an email to Nats fans the next day about ordering WS tickets, which I already had at home on my dining room table. Will be rooting for ABC forever.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBaby View Post
    Not to this Nats fan who was at the game.....and is still devastated. Utterly deflating. Not only that, MLB sent an email to Nats fans the next day about ordering WS tickets, which I already had at home on my dining room table. Will be rooting for ABC forever.
    BDB, I hear you and sympathize completely. Not to sound like a boorish old prig but sometimes it takes heartbreak to really savor the joy in winning.
    The Nat was totally rocketing splendid this season. Absolutely head-shaking magnificent. Don't lose sight of that! You'll be itching to go next April. Perhaps you and I will have a Ben's chili dog together...but I'm hoping the beer selections improve, too.
    Third base side, meet you there.

    In the meantime, ABStLC sounds good to me.
    And throaty, I'll plug my ears to your protests.

  14. #134
    Joe Girardi on instant replay:

    "The thing about baseball is it's a real rhythm game, and I am sure football is, too, but I think if you were to start to instant replay all these plays, I think it would break the rhythm of the game, and our games all get to be four (hours) long. If you start instant replaying everything, then you could go as far as a strike and it could just become too long.

    "I like the way they are doing it, just home run calls, those are important plays, and there are other important plays, and you could look at the play the other night and say that was an important play, but I think there would be too many things that people would want instant replay and where would you stop?"
    Wait, that was Joe Girardi in 2009, after a blown call went in favor of the Yankees. This is Joe Girardi now:

    "It's frustrating," Girardi said. "I don't have a problem with Jeff's effort, I don't, because he hustled to get to the play. But in this day and age when we have instant replay available to us, it's got to change. These guys are under tremendous amounts of pressure. ...

    "It is a tough call for him, because the tag is underneath and it's hard for him to see. And it takes more time to argue and get upset than you get the call right. Too much is at stake. We play 235 days to get to this point, and two calls go against us. We lose it by one run last night."


    (Yankee games last four hours? That *would* be a nightmare.)

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Well, I just got back from Antigua, where we had TBS and AMC on our Dish Network satellite, but no Fox. Luckily, the Tigers were on TBS the whole time I was there. I won't say we got lucky in Game 2 with the missed calls, but they were definitely missed calls. Would have been a different game though, and we've been on the much worse end of controversial calls or no-calls in playoff situations (like the Inge HBP no-call during Game 163 in 2009).

    I feel great about our chances tonight with JV35 on the mound. Anything can happen, but the Yankees have to get runs off pitchers not named Valverde. Valverde is responsible for the only runs the Tigers have given up in any game since Game 4 of the ALDS against the A's (and Scherzer's only run allowed in that game was unearned). I don't think that Valverde gets booed either because that's really not what us Detroit fans do. You might get a few boos, but if Papa Grande gets the call in the 9th, it will likely be because we're up and the crowd is going to get behind him.

    But, I wouldn't be surprised if JV goes the distance. As he said when asked if Leyland tried to take him out in Game 5 of the ALDS, "[Leyland] knows better."
    2003-2004 HLM

    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    . You have to be able to get to the line, get easy baskets in the NCAAT similarly you have to be able to advance guys, get them in from 3rd etc.
    That, IMO, is the biggest thing along with the K rate. No one can bunt(Granderson tried) and no one wants to hit the ball to the right side with a guy on 2nd and 0 outs, although that situation hasn't occurred much.

    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    As far as Granderson, I'm sure playing in NY hasn't helped with the short porch. But I agree, that is why what Cabrera was able to do was amazing and I thought we'd never see it b/c so many guys have to or willingly sacrifice average for power. And as the announcers have continually harped on, the fact he had only 10 SBs when he should be a 30/30 guy is alarming.
    Outside of Ichiro, the Yanks have NO team speed considering Nunez and Gardner are part time players right now. I think these guys need to be in there, and yes I know Gardner just came off the season long DL. He looks ok to me and seems to be swinging it fine, but I'm obviously not privy to where he's at physically. I'm also well aware of Nunez's struggles at SS but the team needs a jolt. These pitchers are breezing through NY's lineup with very few tough innings. Not much to ask for a guy to throw 7 to 8 non-stressful innings against NY right now.

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    Well, I just got back from Antigua, where we had TBS and AMC on our Dish Network satellite, but no Fox. Luckily, the Tigers were on TBS the whole time I was there. I won't say we got lucky in Game 2 with the missed calls, but they were definitely missed calls. Would have been a different game though, and we've been on the much worse end of controversial calls or no-calls in playoff situations (like the Inge HBP no-call during Game 163 in 2009).

    I feel great about our chances tonight with JV35 on the mound. Anything can happen, but the Yankees have to get runs off pitchers not named Valverde. Valverde is responsible for the only runs the Tigers have given up in any game since Game 4 of the ALDS against the A's (and Scherzer's only run allowed in that game was unearned). I don't think that Valverde gets booed either because that's really not what us Detroit fans do. You might get a few boos, but if Papa Grande gets the call in the 9th, it will likely be because we're up and the crowd is going to get behind him.

    But, I wouldn't be surprised if JV goes the distance. As he said when asked if Leyland tried to take him out in Game 5 of the ALDS, "[Leyland] knows better."
    I learned from my father, a devout Tiger fan (as I am now since the Expos bailed on me) that the Jankees are never dead until you cram a stake thru their heart. I think there's plenty of pressure on the Tigers tonight, because if
    the pinstripes can win, they have Sabathia tomorrow, and the series could be tied rather quickly.
    The key (for me at least) is for Verlander to get through the early innings where sometimes he's shaky. Once he gets a head of steam, he's really tough.

    p.s. Glad Leyland listened to me in game two. In game one, Coke (erratic as he may have been during the season) was throwing nothing but strikes and mowing down the Yanks, but he pulled him for
    a percentage (righty vs righty) move, which I detest when a guy is throwing well. And Monsieur Benoit gave up a few very hard hit balls before the Papa Grande collapse.
    In game two he stuck with Coke who was again (somehow) really impressive.

    pps: the Yanks sluggers can't possibly stay this cold for long, so I'm hoping Verlander can squeeze out a win tonight before the inevitable sea change.

    ppps: thoughts of Frank Lary evoke thoughts of Charlie Maxwell.

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    BDB, I hear you and sympathize completely. Not to sound like a boorish old prig but sometimes it takes heartbreak to really savor the joy in winning.
    The Nat was totally rocketing splendid this season. Absolutely head-shaking magnificent. Don't lose sight of that! You'll be itching to go next April. Perhaps you and I will have a Ben's chili dog together...but I'm hoping the beer selections improve, too.
    Third base side, meet you there.

    In the meantime, ABStLC sounds good to me.
    And throaty, I'll plug my ears to your protests.
    Looking back a few days later, it was an amazing experience. My second playoff game in person, the first being the night before with Werth's walkoff homer. And, yes, what a wonderful season after waiting since 2005 for October baseball. We are already counting down the days to spring training! See you on the third base side for a brewski!

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Seems the Yanks are reading this thread and FINALLY listening to me .....

    According to Cashman when mentioning Gardner, "He still might play a role in this thing," Cashman said on ESPN New York 98.7 FMs "The Michael Kay Show." "You could very well see Gardner in this big outfield that Detroit has. The way our offense is, it is a possibility. He deserves consideration considering what is going on right now."

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug.I.Am View Post
    Seems the Yanks are reading this thread and FINALLY listening to me .....

    According to Cashman when mentioning Gardner, "He still might play a role in this thing," Cashman said on ESPN New York 98.7 FMs "The Michael Kay Show." "You could very well see Gardner in this big outfield that Detroit has. The way our offense is, it is a possibility. He deserves consideration considering what is going on right now."
    Gardner and Nunez are both in tonight. Personally I don't really like seeing Nunez in there, but options are limited and we shall see.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

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