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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC

    Barry Hits #756!

    Whether you like him or not, Barry Bonds has done it, tonight in the 5th inning off a full count pitch from Mike Bascik of the Washington Nationals. I consider myself a big Barry Bonds fan, ever since he came into the league. So, I congratulate #25 on making history!

    Also, for those hoping to see him add to the total, they just took him out of the game. 756 and done.
    2003-2004 HLM

    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  2. #2
    Hm. Not sure how I feel about that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!

    756

    Congrats to Barry. No * here.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  4. #4

    not here...

    *

    A sad day in professional sports.


    *
    Last edited by SeattleIrish; 08-08-2007 at 01:51 AM. Reason: no edit - just another *

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Congratulations to Barry Bond. There is no asterik in my book!
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  6. #6
    Congratulations to Mr. Bonds, and everyone that made this possible.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown

    I know how I feel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    Hm. Not sure how I feel about that.
    ...Its a disgrace to baseball, and to Hank, Willie, Babe and everyone else who earned their records.

  8. #8
    First, Barry is an undisputed jerk to the media and to many fans, opposing players, etc. I happen to believe that professional athletes don't have an obligation to be a media darling, but I will say that he has shown time and time again to be a jerk.

    As for the "tainted record", I have two things to say. Number one, Bonds has never tested positive for any steroids, and the "proof" that has been presented has been anything but unbiased reporting. Second, if you're one who blindly believes he's guilty, I'll take this a different route.

    Baseball, which you claim has been disgraced, created this on their own. Their lack of any stance on performance enhancing drugs opened the door for baseball to live under a cloud for the past decade. Steroids simply became a part of the game. As for comparing records, baseball has never been a "fair" game when it comes to comparing stats from player to player, much less era to era. Some batters don't have to play in the field, some batters get to play in hitters' ballparks more often than others, etc. From era to era, you're talking about things like the dead ball era, the specialization of the bullpens with closers and set-up guys and middle relievers, and even things like increased media scrutiny thanks to the internet, ESPN, etc. So if you want to put an asterisk on everything, go ahead. But you can't pick and choose what's "tainted" and what's not. If you want an asterisk, prove that Bonds was cheating, and prove that he was the only one cheating. Otherwise, if you truly have to believe he's guilty of being on steroids, then you have to believe that everyone is and that it's just a part of the game.

    The only fact here is that Bonds just hit 756, and no one has ever done that before. He's the greatest player of our time. And the best thing about it all is that he doesn't need the affection of the public to find his success, and let's be honest, sportswriters hate athletes who aren't defined by sportswriters.

  9. #9
    fwiw - here is the evidence:

    (1) grand jury testimoney (admittedly, it was leaked) that he took the cream and the clear but did not know what he was taking. He said he thought it was flax seed oil, but the creator of the drugs has said there is absolutely no similarity in texture or taste between the steroids and flax seed oil

    (2) his head has grown from a 7 1/8 - 7 1/4 since he has been in San Francisco (despite the fact he has started shaving his head since coming to san fran)

    (3) His uniform size has gone from a 42 - 52 in that time.

    (4) His shoe size has gone from 10 1/2 - 13

    That is evidence enough, and unbiased enough in my book. If you read Game of Shadows it is very very convincing.

    as I said in the other post . . .

    GO A-ROD, GO PUJOLS

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by steven52682 View Post
    fwiw - here is the evidence:

    (2) his head has grown from a 7 1/8 - 7 1/4 since he has been in San Francisco (despite the fact he has started shaving his head since coming to san fran)

    (3) His uniform size has gone from a 42 - 52 in that time.

    (4) His shoe size has gone from 10 1/2 - 13

    That is evidence enough, and unbiased enough in my book. If you read Game of Shadows it is very very convincing.

    as I said in the other post . . .

    GO A-ROD, GO PUJOLS
    I'm speculating you could then say the same for Tony Gwynn. I am in no way trying to suggest Tony juiced as there is no evidence that he did. My point is that his uniform size got bigger while he was playing for the Padres and probably not from roids so this change in size for Bonds doesn't really fly for me.

    I think Cal's uniform size grew too.

    Shoot, my uniform size has grown and I can guarantee you I'm NOT on steroids.


    I am a Blue Devil worshiper!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilWolf View Post
    First, Barry is an undisputed jerk to the media and to many fans, opposing players, etc. I happen to believe that professional athletes don't have an obligation to be a media darling, but I will say that he has shown time and time again to be a jerk.

    As for the "tainted record", I have two things to say. Number one, Bonds has never tested positive for any steroids, and the "proof" that has been presented has been anything but unbiased reporting. Second, if you're one who blindly believes he's guilty, I'll take this a different route.

    Baseball, which you claim has been disgraced, created this on their own. Their lack of any stance on performance enhancing drugs opened the door for baseball to live under a cloud for the past decade. Steroids simply became a part of the game. As for comparing records, baseball has never been a "fair" game when it comes to comparing stats from player to player, much less era to era. Some batters don't have to play in the field, some batters get to play in hitters' ballparks more often than others, etc. From era to era, you're talking about things like the dead ball era, the specialization of the bullpens with closers and set-up guys and middle relievers, and even things like increased media scrutiny thanks to the internet, ESPN, etc. So if you want to put an asterisk on everything, go ahead. But you can't pick and choose what's "tainted" and what's not. If you want an asterisk, prove that Bonds was cheating, and prove that he was the only one cheating. Otherwise, if you truly have to believe he's guilty of being on steroids, then you have to believe that everyone is and that it's just a part of the game.

    The only fact here is that Bonds just hit 756, and no one has ever done that before. He's the greatest player of our time. And the best thing about it all is that he doesn't need the affection of the public to find his success, and let's be honest, sportswriters hate athletes who aren't defined by sportswriters.
    Yeah, I like this post!!!


    I am a Blue Devil worshiper!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    I saw it. Sadly, I felt nothing. You can't honestly think that Bonds wasn't juicing. Men don't put on 50 lbs of pure muscle after age 35 under normal physiological conditions.

    I feel gipped. Quite possibly the greatest record in all of sports was just "broken" and fans were screwed out of getting to really enjoy the experience. Screwed by Bonds, screwed by MLB, screwed by the media (who gives a flying rats butt what Bud Selig is doing), and screwed by all the players who didn't take roids and sat there silently.

    Mostly though, I hate the fact that I won't tell my kids about last night. And sadly, when/if May-Rod passes Bonds, I probably won't care too much about that either.
    WWJDD?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by steven52682 View Post
    fwiw - here is the evidence

    That is evidence enough, and unbiased enough in my book. If you read Game of Shadows it is very very convincing.
    Unbiased? So if the book had been about how Barry put on weight in order to change the way he plays because there aren't many guys older than 35 who hit for average and steal bases, do you think it would have sold as many copies? That book is about as biased as you can get. Not saying I blindly believe that he never took anything, I'm just saying I'm more inclined to let the legal process play out than I am taking the word of sportswriters who are making a living bashing this guy. I'm in the camp who believes he probably did take steroids, along with the majority of other players, and I don't care. You simply cannot put this on Bonds if you're talking about steroids. Either accept the record or stop watching the game because like it or not, steroids took over baseball. If you don't accept the record because you don't like Bonds as a person, that doesn't change the FACT that he just hit 756 home runs.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Bond has the sweetest, most efficient swing I have seen. He also has ALWAYS hit the snot out of it. He has done it from the beginning. Before people were shocked to learn that there was an enhancement issue, he brought uncountable thrills in hitting 73. McQuire and Sosa, great home run hitters to be sure, didn't come close.

    I am not a baseball fan, Buzzi took care of that, and to me the record that counted was always 60. Beyond that, there is 400, and 56. That is the list. The rest of these records should go the way of 45's.

    If you don't enjoy it, don't watch it. Records are for sissies.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    I can't repeat what I said to the TV as Bonds launched 756, particularly since I'm a Nats fan. At least the good guys won the game. Interestingly, ESPN has a poll on the greatest homerun hitter - the Babe was barely in the lead when I voted.

  16. #16
    yes - but Tony Gwynn's uniform size got bigger in a way that many who have come before him got bigger.

    Gwynn's head did not grow after the age of 35

    Nor did his feet get bigger after the age of 35.

    and if you have Game of Shadows you might see why I think it rings true. The level of detail is impecable. Bonds is the first person ever to increase his production the way that he did after the age of 35. If you can show me any other example from anywhere else in history where an individual after the age of 35 had the kind of body change Bonds did naturally and in the normal course, where there head and feet grew I will be more willing to accept Barry Bonds.

  17. #17
    So he is guilty until proven innocent is basically what you're saying.

  18. #18
    no he is not guilty until innocent. I do not look at people and say "hey, you look like you took steroids, prove you didnt."

    However, as in the Vick case, I do not stand in the court of law, I stand in the court of public opinion. I do not have to wait for a jury to return a verdict of guilty to think and believe someone is guilty. I believe Bonds is guilty - there has been evidence presented to the public, and bonds has done nothing to rebut those allegations. His trainer is in jail for contempt because he wont testify in the Balco case http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2510411. He ADMITTED taking steroid. It was in leaked testimony from a GJ so it cant be used against him, but he admitted using it. Further, it is very difficult to believe that someone who is allegedly of Bonds' healthy state of mind and so concerned with himself has never tasted or seen flaxseed oil - which is totally different in taste and texture from what he was taking.

    So, is he guilty until proven innocent, no. But my personal system, and whether you buy it or not, is a shifting burden. There has been a mountain of evidence presented against Bonds, and none for him.

    With Duke Lax, there was the initial accusation, which bothered me and I admit I was extremely disappointed when I heard it. However, the lax players subsequently presented a mountain of evidence in there support which shifted the burden away from them.

    That is not a perfect method, and I am glad that it is not the method in the justice system, but fortunately I am only in the court of public opinion, not a court of law.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by steven52682 View Post

    So, is he guilty until proven innocent, no. But my personal system, and whether you buy it or not, is a shifting burden. There has been a mountain of evidence presented against Bonds, and none for him.
    That's fair enough. My point has always been that IF he took steroids, he did so while playing a game that at first didn't make it illegal, and then second just said it was illegal without actually testing for it, and lastly its a game where the majority of players are suspected of the same thing. So the bias comes in from the fans who love baseball, spend their money on the MLB package or on tickets, cheer on their favorite players, but then claim this record to be tainted. If this record is "tainted", then you must admit the sport itself is "tainted". If you want to pick and choose, then it does come down to bias.

  20. #20
    steven52682, I sure hope you are not serving on a jury in which I am the defendant. In your book I'd be guilty. And I haven't even committed a crime!


    I am a Blue Devil worshiper!

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