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  1. #41
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Why did Abi turn into a giant !#^!#^ at last night's tribal council?
    Perhaps she did it because of the intertwining of Narcissism and Masochism...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2678021

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Why did Abi turn into a giant !#^!#^ at last night's tribal council?

    I know she has been an awful person in the past -- and it ain't a culture thing, it is an Abi thing -- but she wnt above and beyond in her insults last night. She was just hammering Lisa and especially Skupin, calling them idiots and morons. Did she know they would be voting to take her out and she just wanted to vent? I think her argument to them -- about Malcolm and Denise being unbeatable -- was a good one but she made herself so unbearable, I think she eliminated any chance that Lisa and Skupin would even consider taking out sweet Denise to keep horrible Abi around.
    She's obviously a terrible person, and quite dumb and un-self-aware to boot. But I think last night (and maybe earlier as well) she was playing to lock herself down as the most evil survivor ever, get a spot on the next all-star season, get invited to do the rounds of morning talk shows, and possibly launch a reality tv career. It's been awhile since Survivor turned Jerri Manthey into a d-list celebrity for a few years, plus there's a difference between being evil and simply unpleasant, but I think that's what she's going for. As detestable a person as she seems to genuinely be, as you say what she did at tribal was simply above and beyond, and I think she was playing at creating a persona she can take with her once the show ends.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  3. #43
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    Mar 2007
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    Huntington Beach, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    She's obviously a terrible person, and quite dumb and un-self-aware to boot. But I think last night (and maybe earlier as well) she was playing to lock herself down as the most evil survivor ever, get a spot on the next all-star season, get invited to do the rounds of morning talk shows, and possibly launch a reality tv career. It's been awhile since Survivor turned Jerri Manthey into a d-list celebrity for a few years, plus there's a difference between being evil and simply unpleasant, but I think that's what she's going for. As detestable a person as she seems to genuinely be, as you say what she did at tribal was simply above and beyond, and I think she was playing at creating a persona she can take with her once the show ends.
    There's a saying that's very popular here in Key West: "Once you've ruined your reputation, you can live quite freely." I think Abi knew that she wasn't going to win. Her best result would be making the final 3. So, after 35 days with people you don't much like, why not speak your mind? Why not lay it on thick? It may be true that she was anticipating an invitation to return as a villain, or to do another show, but even without those prospects, she had nothing to lose.
    No soup for you!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlBluRew View Post
    There's a saying that's very popular here in Key West: "Once you've ruined your reputation, you can live quite freely." I think Abi knew that she wasn't going to win. Her best result would be making the final 3. So, after 35 days with people you don't much like, why not speak your mind? Why not lay it on thick? It may be true that she was anticipating an invitation to return as a villain, or to do another show, but even without those prospects, she had nothing to lose.
    Well if making the final 3, even without a chance to win, was something worthwhile, she had that to lose. I thought Skupin and Lisa might have been prepared to vote Denise off, but then threw it out the window when Abi called him an idiot to his face. Maybe at the reunion we'll find out whether or not they would have done that if she'd not been so brutal at tribal, but to the extent that it was a possibility, she cost herself that.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  5. #45
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I'll tell you what mystified me last night -- why Malcolm didn't use his hidden idol to protect anyone. He had immunity himself, he could have ensured one more person would stick around by giving his idol to that person. I don't know why he kept that power to himself.

    Here were his options --

    1) Give the idol to Denise - She has been his partner throughout the game and it would be the ultimate statement of loyalty, something the jury admires. What's more, it would cement his relationship with her, perhaps ensuring that she would stick with him in the even that he loses the next immunity challenge and the others want to vote him out (as he is probably the most likely winner if he reaches the final 3). On the other hand, Denise is his biggest threat to win the game. If he makes it to the end, the one person most likely to beat him is Denise. By not giving the idol to her, he opens the possibility for others to vote her out, eliminating his biggest competitor.

    2) Give the idol to Lisa or Skupin - He clearly knew there was no secret plan to take either of these folks out because he wasn't involved in such a plan and without him, no plan could work. So, if he passes his idol to one of them, he gains loyalty from that person -- perhaps even from both Lisa and Skupin. He knows Lisa is talking a lot about "being here to win" and "wanting to take the least deserving person to the finals." He needs to be worried about her turning on him. What better way to ensure she would not turn than to hand off the idol to her in the ultimate act of friendship and loyalty.

    3) Give the idol to Abi - Had Malcolm done this, and then voted out someone else it would have been the ultimate "I am taking the least deserving person to the end to sit next to me" move. But, I don't think Malcolm needs to play it this way as he is likely to beat Lisa, Skupin, and perhaps even Denise in a final vote anyway. He doesn't really care if Abi is around for the jury to hate.

    But, he chose none of the above. He just chose to hang onto the idol. Why? It did not help him in the game to hang onto it, unless he thought passing it to someone would anger the others. I don't really see that as all the final players (except Abi) like each other and seemed to be content keeping each other around. I just don't get it.

    I really think this could come back to bite Malcolm in the butt. If he fails to win the next immunity challenge, I think he has to be the main target of the other three players. They just have to know that he is the most popular guy with the jury. He got closer to everyone else than Denise did and he has been strong in challenges lately. Plus, Abi hates Denise and is probably poisoning the jury pool against Denise. Clearly, Malcolm is going to beat Lisa and Skupin, both of whom are seen as backstabbers. So, Malcolm had a chance to win some loyalty from someone and he passed it up. I won't be mildly surprised if it is his downfall.

    -Jason "I wanna talk about Abi for a second... next post" Evans
    I'll make the counter argument - there was no one Malcolm could give the idol to. The next tribal for Malcolm is basically all or nothing, and if he doesn't win immunity he is going to have to scramble big time. I think he was trying to keep as many people on his side for the next vote as possible.

    - no way he gives it to Abi - he pisses everyone off and they all vote against him if he loses the next immunity, plus probably loses some Jury respect

    - giving it to Skupin or Lisa doesn't have any real benefit since they are safe, but has risk as giving it to either of them after Denise asked for it would certainly anger his closest ally. If he doesn't win the next immunity, he needs one of Skupin/Lisa to be with him, assuming he still has Denise on his side. While it would be great for him to secure one of those (if they can even be split at this point), he can't do it at the expense of Denise.

    - giving it to Denise makes the most sense since she has been his closest ally and was in danger (or at least portrayed that way on TV). I assume that he didn't do this to show Lisa and Skupin that he is really with them in his final 3 pact. This is the one move that is hardest to defend, but one could argue that it doesn't have any benefit to him since Denise is on his side anyway.

    Other alternative would be to try to give it to either Skupin or Denise in exchange for immunity next week if they win, but can't imagine anyone making that bet with him, so I'm not sure he could have done anything different.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    - no way he gives it to Abi - he pisses everyone off and they all vote against him if he loses the next immunity, plus probably loses some Jury respect
    I realize this has been done on Survivor before, but he should have made a fake one and given that to Abi. To see her play it and then get smacked down by Jeff for it being fake would have been faaaaaantastic.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  7. #47
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    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    I realize this has been done on Survivor before, but he should have made a fake one and given that to Abi. To see her play it and then get smacked down by Jeff for it being fake would have been faaaaaantastic.
    Amazing idea... but worth noting that Abi had an idol earlier in the game so she knows what they look like. Making a new one that would fool her seems like a long shot.

    -Jason "anyone want to make a case for Skupin or Lisa winning at this point?" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  8. #48
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    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Amazing idea... but worth noting that Abi had an idol earlier in the game so she knows what they look like. Making a new one that would fool her seems like a long shot.

    -Jason "anyone want to make a case for Skupin or Lisa winning at this point?" Evans
    Yes. I think if they do the smart thing and vote out Malcolm next (assuming he does not win immunity), then Skupin wins. I don't think the former Tandang tribe likes Denise enough to overcome tribe loyalty. Maybe it's true that they didn't like Skupin, and he flipped on them, but I think Denise lost this game through all her sniping with Abi. She came across as smug, holier-than-thou and snarky. And I think RC, Pete, Artis and Abi all will vote for Mike. I think Penner will as well - and that's five.

    I think the jury vote would go down like this:

    SKUPIN: RC, Pete, Artis, Abi, Penner

    DENISE: Carter, Jeff, Malcolm

    By the way, are we sure this is a 3 person finale? Usually there are two eliminations in the final episode - the final episode usually starts with 5 players when there is a 3 person final. As of now, there are seven on the jury, correct? Am I missing someone? They wouldn't have an 8 person jury, would they? Too great of a risk of a 4-4 tie.

    Maybe this is a two-person finale with 9 jury members.

    If so, that changes a lot.

    If Malcolm makes the final (whether it's 2 or 3) he wins in a landslide.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  9. #49
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Amazing idea... but worth noting that Abi had an idol earlier in the game so she knows what they look like. Making a new one that would fool her seems like a long shot.

    -Jason "anyone want to make a case for Skupin or Lisa winning at this point?" Evans
    Weak one, but here goes:

    First they have to vote Malcolm off.

    Second step is to discredit Denise and convince the jury that she just rode Malcolm's coat-tails and was a strong physical player but did not have anything to do with strategy. There is a reason she was at every tribal and was just lucky to not have her name written down.

    Third is to make a convincing argument for why they are worthy, and best bet is that they were on the bottom of every alliance yet managed to outlast everyone by making the right strategic choices. They may not have been popular choices, but they were not getting into the top 3 with Pete-Artis-Abi (and they were huge threats so had to get them out, yada-yada-yada), wanted to take Penner but he didn't want to go with them, and outlasted everyone else. "You may be mad at us but try to respect the game we played based on the position we were in" plea.

    I'm not sure they can do any of these things, and this is best case and probably still falls short. Also would be interested to see how they differentiate between themselves? Skupin better physically, Lisa maybe better socially - can either claim to be more strategic?

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    I wonder if Lisa's past comes out or if that will impact the jury at all if they already know it.

    I also wonder if Skupin's past on the show costs him votes. Many in the jury seemed to think poorly of Skupin and Penner because "the returning players already had their chance." Of course, being voted out may have changed their minds about returning players as I suspect all of them hope to be one someday!

    -Jason "it has been a loong time since we had a Final 2 instead of a Final 3, hasn't it? Would be an interesting change if we did" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #51
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    Apr 2010
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    Columbus, OH
    Is anyone out there watching the finale?

  12. #52
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    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1 24 90 View Post
    Is anyone out there watching the finale?
    Yup. Congrats to Denise!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  13. #53
    I always think these guys look silly when they get all bitter at tribal, but in the heat of the moment anyone gets pretty salty. But for a guy who's played the game already, twice, Penner's venom seemed kind of embarrassing.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  14. #54
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    Apr 2010
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    Columbus, OH
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Yup. Congrats to Denise!
    Agreed, but what was up with Penner outing Lisa? Low class move especially since younger people probably don't realize that TV stars in the 80s weren't making millions of dollars. I wonder if that affected any voting. Probably not but I think he just wanted to make it all about him. 3 time loser....

  15. #55
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by 1 24 90 View Post
    Agreed, but what was up with Penner outing Lisa? Low class move especially since younger people probably don't realize that TV stars in the 80s weren't making millions of dollars. I wonder if that affected any voting. Probably not but I think he just wanted to make it all about him. 3 time loser....
    I wanted Probst to ask the jury during the reunion show if that swayed anyone's vote. I thought her answer was pretty good but don't know if that was a big moment or not (I suspect not).

    Thought all 3 presented themselves pretty well to the jury, particularly Skupin. Hadn't seen that from him before.

    Was bummed that Malcolm didn't win (although seems pretty likely he will be back in a future season), but also surprised he didn't scramble more at the final 4. Could have told Skupin that if he was voted out he would definitely vote Denise, or the even better play would have been to go to Denise and say "looks like it's either one of us; instead of letting Lisa and Skupin decide let's both vote Lisa and then it will be fire making between one of us and Lisa" - I would imagine Denise says yes to this unless she was 100% certain Skupin and Lisa were going to vote Malcolm out and either of them would like their chances against Lisa. I guess the game is much easier from my couch.

    Overall pretty good season and deserving winner in Denise.

  16. #56
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    Feb 2007
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    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    I wanted Probst to ask the jury during the reunion show if that swayed anyone's vote. I thought her answer was pretty good but don't know if that was a big moment or not (I suspect not).

    Thought all 3 presented themselves pretty well to the jury, particularly Skupin. Hadn't seen that from him before.

    Was bummed that Malcolm didn't win (although seems pretty likely he will be back in a future season), but also surprised he didn't scramble more at the final 4. Could have told Skupin that if he was voted out he would definitely vote Denise, or the even better play would have been to go to Denise and say "looks like it's either one of us; instead of letting Lisa and Skupin decide let's both vote Lisa and then it will be fire making between one of us and Lisa" - I would imagine Denise says yes to this unless she was 100% certain Skupin and Lisa were going to vote Malcolm out and either of them would like their chances against Lisa. I guess the game is much easier from my couch.

    Overall pretty good season and deserving winner in Denise.
    I had the exact same thought about Malcolm (or Denise) suggesting to the other that they both vote out Lisa and take their chances with fire-making. Unless either one was reasonably certain they were safe - their chances were 50-50 that Skupin would decide to keep them. I think either one of them has to think they are better than a 50-50 shot to beat Lisa in a fire making challenge. I think that should have been Malcolm's play. But I knew he had lost when they showed him turning down Denise's final 3 guarantee deal. As Jeff pointed out in the reunion show, you have to say yes to that even if you are lying - because if you don't win the final immunity challenge, Denise is no longer your ally. Actually, that's where he lost the chance to be in the final 3, but perhaps not the game because it appeared that the jury would have still gone for Denise even if the final 3 were Malcolm, Skupin and Denise.

    I also agree that all 3 finalists did a great job of answering questions (even though there weren't many good ones). Lisa's statement wasn't great, but her answer to Penner was awesome.

    I really thought Denise had blown it with some of her holier-than-thou demeanor towards the end - but she was a worthy winner.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  17. #57
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    Feb 2007
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    Ashburn, VA
    The jury said they still would have voted for Denise in a Skupin/Malcolm/Denise final 3, but what if Skupin had done what he was considering and really voted out Denise? Are we to assume Malcolm would definitely win in a Skupin/Lisa/Malcolm final? Did Skupin or Lisa's chances go up by voting Malcolm off, or did it just go from 0 to 0 ?

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    I agree about Denise sounding a bit too confident when talking to the jury in her opening statement. She was running a risk there, though she did a nice job in some of her other answers.

    I hate the bitter jury. Artis got it going with his hateful screed about staying loyal to alliances and how he was honorable but they were not -- which is why he got voted out and they stuck around. Hey, genius! They didn't stay loyal to you because you were treating them like dirt! Why stay loyal to people who are planning on voting you out in the end? He actually thought the honorable thing to do would have been for Lisa and Skupin to stick stick around with Artis, Pete, and Abi until they got voted out. Pathetic! It is about winning the game! They outplayed, outwitted, and outlasted you Artis! Shut up, you loser!

    While Denise was a very deserving winner and a great player, I can't help but think that Lisa and Skupin deserved some consideration. Denise did not control her fate in the game. Without Skupin and then Lisa being willing to leave their original alliance, Denise would have been sent home -- probably in about 6th or 7th place. It was only that Artis, Abi, and Pete made aligning with themselves so unbearable and unwise that Skupin and Lisa went elsewhere. I think Skupin and Lisa should have made that argument at some point to the jury. "She would not be here is we had not allowed her to be!" It was probably their only hope of winning.

    -Jason "the scuttlebutt is that Malcolm will be on the Fans vs Favorites coming up in 2013... I look forward to him playing again!" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  19. #59
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    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Did Lisa and Scupin both get one vote, thereby tying for 2nd and splitting the $100,000 second place prize?
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Did Lisa and Scupin both get one vote, thereby tying for 2nd and splitting the $100,000 second place prize?
    Everyone on the show receives prize money on a sliding scale the longer you last. I've read that after the 2nd place $100K, 3rd is $85K. I assume they either give them both $100K or just average 2nd and 3rd place and give them both that amount.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

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