Other College Basketball coaches think Roy Williams is overrated

[Bluedog]

Well, perhaps an even juicier question and answer for today: "Who is perceived to be the biggest cheater in the sport?"

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...r-in-the-sport

Calipari and Drew run away with it.

[ice-9]

The quote about Williams being overrated is based on the premise that Roy inherited two good situations in Kansas and UNC. The implication being most "good" coaches could probably do a similar job with those kinds of resources.

Coach K isn't on that list because he *didn't* inherit a good situation in Duke -- he was the guy who built Duke into a powerhouse. Therefore, the thinking behind that quote doesn't apply.

All that said I do think Roy's position as #1 is a little harsh. The job isn't just about Xs and Os; it's about recruiting and player management and Roy does those things very well. Does the general perception of his ability as an Xs and Os coach match the reality? Perhaps not, but he does deliver results and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

When I graduated from Duke I was shocked a classmate graduated magna cum laude, because I worked with her on a few Econ projects (we were both Econ majors) and she seemed consistently clueless and I basically had to do most of the heavy lifting. I mean, I thought there was a decent chance she was going to fail in those classes, but her test preparation (not to mention project partner selection) must've been pretty awesome. As her direct peer I'd say she was overrated in the intelligence department...but who cares? She's the one who graduated with the honors and as far as the world is concerned, she's brilliant. LOL!

[flyingdutchdevil]

The quote about Williams being overrated is based on the premise that Roy inherited two good situations in Kansas and UNC. The implication being most "good" coaches could probably do a similar job with those kinds of resources.

Coach K isn't on that list because he *didn't* inherit a good situation in Duke -- he was the guy who built Duke into a powerhouse. Therefore, the thinking behind that quote doesn't apply.

All that said I do think Roy's position as #1 is a little harsh. The job isn't just about Xs and Os; it's about recruiting and player management and Roy does those things very well. Does the general perception of his ability as an Xs and Os coach match the reality? Perhaps not, but he does deliver results and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

When I graduated from Duke I was shocked a classmate graduated magna cum laude, because I worked with her on a few Econ projects (we were both Econ majors) and she seemed consistently clueless and I basically had to do most of the heavy lifting. I mean, I thought there was a decent chance she was going to fail in those classes, but her test preparation (not to mention project partner selection) must've been pretty awesome. As her direct peer I'd say she was overrated in the intelligence department...but who cares? She's the one who graduated with the honors and as far as the world is concerned she's brilliant. LOL!

Firstly, I love that example. So true, so true. I've been in that situation dozens of times, both in undergrad and grad school.

I agree with you about Roy for the most part. Behind Calipari, is there a better recruiter out there? Also, given the right personnel, he is a good / great X&Os kind of guy. The one area where I will disagree with you is player management. Roy is good at this but not great. I think he is exceptional at managing freshman but can't manage egos that well (see Drew, Larry II). Also, his teams are frequently less than the sum of their parts, which again is a product of both his stellar recruiting and so-so Xs and Os.

[Des Esseintes]

I hate to say it but if you take 2010 out of the equation then Coach K's tournament performances in the past decade don't look so hot. I guess you could argue that he overachieved during the season, but he's never overachieved in the postseason relative to his talent except for 2010.

Sure. If this poll was taken in 2009, Coach K would very likely have been on the list. But the 2010 season happened.

Yeah, I wasn't arguing we should throw out Roy's 2010 data point. On the contrary, it was a uniquely revealing year. 2010 was arguably the one time he has taken the court without overwhelming talent, and he inarguably failed that test. It's that failure in the lone opportunity--I know I'm stretching the word "opportunity" here--he had to demonstrate himself a guy who gets more than the sum of his parts that hurts his stock now.

Also, regarding K, if you take away ANY season in which he won a national title, his record will look far worse. Winning a title is very hard and very rare.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, I wasn't arguing we should throw out Roy's 2010 data point. On the contrary, it was a uniquely revealing year. 2010 was arguably the one time he has taken the court without overwhelming talent, and he inarguably failed that test. It's that failure in the lone opportunity--I know I'm stretching the word "opportunity" here--he had to demonstrate himself a guy who gets more than the sum of his parts that hurts his stock now.

Also, regarding K, if you take away ANY season in which he won a national title, his record will look far worse. Winning a title is very hard and very rare.

Don't want to change the subject, but isn't 2010 essentially the same as 2013 for UNC? A really highly ranked PF who hasn't been proven or tested yet somehow is expected to carry the team, a bunch of freshman who aren't fit to play ACC basketball (Wears and Henson were too thin, James needs to cut some weight and Johnson needs to add weight), an untested PG, and a log-jam at 2 positions (in 2010, it was the 4-5 positions, in 2013 it's the 2-3 positions). Roy better bust out the old play book - these are gonna be some exciting games!

[Des Esseintes]

Don't want to change the subject, but isn't 2010 essentially the same as 2013 for UNC? A really highly ranked PF who hasn't been proven or tested yet somehow is expected to carry the team, a bunch of freshman who aren't fit to play ACC basketball (Wears and Henson were too thin, James needs to cut some weight and Johnson needs to add weight), an untested PG, and a log-jam at 2 positions (in 2010, it was the 4-5 positions, in 2013 it's the 2-3 positions). Roy better bust out the old play book - these are gonna be some exciting games!

It very well may be, right? On the other hand, UNC is unlikely to get hit with the same injury buzzsaw as 2010's team, and that made a big difference in turning that season from disappointing to catastrophic. I also think the upperclassmen on this year's team are better both on the court and in the locker room than those of 2010. But all that said, I agree it will be interesting to see whether Roy can make something formidable of these pieces. They aren't bad pieces, but neither are they his prototype pieces.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It very well may be, right? On the other hand, UNC is unlikely to get hit with the same injury buzzsaw as 2010's team, and that made a big difference in turning that season from disappointing to catastrophic. I also think the upperclassmen on this year's team are better both on the court and in the locker room than those of 2010. But all that said, I agree it will be interesting to see whether Roy can make something formidable of these pieces. They aren't bad pieces, but neither are they his prototype pieces.

They have three upperclassmen in Strickland (good guy), McDonald (good guy), and Bullock (no comment). Interestingly enough, all three players are most comfortable playing the 2. Hairston and/or Tokoto - sorry, one of you is going to get absolutely screwed over.

You're completely right about the injuries, but an injury to Paige or Strickland would bring this team to the brink. They are deep in the 2-4 positions, can play small ball with the 5 if James gets injured, but what about the 1? Paige is the only true PG and if he isn't 100%, good luck UNC.

[BD80]

Well, perhaps an even juicier question and answer for today: "Who is perceived to be the biggest cheater in the sport?"

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...r-in-the-sport

Calipari and Drew run away with it.

Now THIS is a topic where ol' roy should have scored well! Or was this a pass/fail independent study class?

How does one say in Swahili: My championship teams stayed academically eligible by registering for (rather than attending) classes in Swahili?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Well, perhaps an even juicier question and answer for today: "Who is perceived to be the biggest cheater in the sport?"

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...r-in-the-sport

Calipari and Drew run away with it.

I have no qualms with the question, but it sure as hell is a loaded one. I mean, really, what else did they expect to hear. CBS is gonna take some heat for that one!

[DukieInKansas]

Oh, Wheat, bless your bad-comprehension-or-poor-attempt-at-trolling heart. No coach said Coach K is buddying up with World Wide Wes. That is a fabrication of a spin of a spin. The CBS writer simply noted that Coach K allowed WWW to have contact with the players on the USA team. Surely you can understand that distinction, right? That is, in NO way, comparable to a poll of actual coaches with actual quotes from said coaches that listed Williams as most overrated.

The reason that it is a poor attempt at trolling is that Wheat isn't a troll.

Although Roy may be considered "overrated" by some coaches, most institutions would be really glad to have him as a coach. Fortunately, Duke won't be one of them. ;-)

[devildeac]

Wow. That's shoddy logic - even by carolina standards. Perhaps it is just awful reading comprehension. To bad it wasn't in Swahili.

That would be this:

Nashangaa jinsi hawa makocha bila majina "maoni" watakuwa kupokea karibu hapa wakati makala nyingine crapola imeandikwa kuelekeza nguvu katika kuajiri shady ... na kisha bila majina kocha anasema kuwa K Kocha ni buddying juu na "World Wide Wes" katika michezo ya Olimpiki kama ushahidi kuwa kocha K ni kukabiliana na mawakala wa mitaani.


Bila shaka itakuwa ni crap kupendekeza kocha K ni shady, lakini UNC mashabiki inaweza kuwa na siku shamba kuweka Kocha K na Calipari katika sanduku huo mchanga kutoka makala kama hiyo.

Hiyo ni kile sisi kupata na aina hii ya makala offseason. Wote crap. Ni tu maana ya kuchochea sufuria.



Mnakaribishwa.

[BD80]

That would be this:

Nashangaa jinsi hawa makocha bila majina "maoni" watakuwa kupokea karibu hapa wakati makala nyingine crapola imeandikwa kuelekeza nguvu katika kuajiri shady ... na kisha bila majina kocha anasema kuwa K Kocha ni buddying juu na "World Wide Wes" katika michezo ya Olimpiki kama ushahidi kuwa kocha K ni kukabiliana na mawakala wa mitaani.


Bila shaka itakuwa ni crap kupendekeza kocha K ni shady, lakini UNC mashabiki inaweza kuwa na siku shamba kuweka Kocha K na Calipari katika sanduku huo mchanga kutoka makala kama hiyo.

Hiyo ni kile sisi kupata na aina hii ya makala offseason. Wote crap. Ni tu maana ya kuchochea sufuria.



Mnakaribishwa.

There has been more communication in Swahili on this board than in all of the combined Swahili classes taken by unc basketball players - but with about the same amount of participation by unc faculty.

[Atlanta Duke]

Well, perhaps an even juicier question and answer for today: "Who is perceived to be the biggest cheater in the sport?"

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...r-in-the-sport

Calipari and Drew run away with it.

Money quote

"Cal probably doesn't have to cheat now as much as he used to, but he's still the standard. The rest of us can't even deal in his league. He's the best."

[ArkieDukie]

Dadgummit! Siwezi kuamini mtu yeyote kuthubutu mashtaka Roy Williams ya kuwa overrated.

[ArkieDukie]

There has been more communication in Swahili on this board than in all of the combined Swahili classes taken by unc basketball players - but with about the same amount of participation by unc faculty.

Unaendelea juu ya sakafu laughing punda wangu off!

[ArkieDukie]

Mimi kwa kweli, kwa kweli matumaini kwamba Crazies Cameron kujifunza alimuua ya chants kwa Kiswahili kwa ajili ya mchezo UNC-Duke. Hiyo itakuwa classic. Kama kusimamia na kufanya kazi katika rejea na makala kuhusu Roy Williams kuwa overrated, hata bora.

[DukieInKansas]

Mimi kwa kweli, kwa kweli matumaini kwamba Crazies Cameron kujifunza alimuua ya chants kwa Kiswahili kwa ajili ya mchezo UNC-Duke. Hiyo itakuwa classic. Kama kusimamia na kufanya kazi katika rejea na makala kuhusu Roy Williams kuwa overrated, hata bora.

This would be great. It reminds me of the Duke v Clemson soccer game one year. Clemson was known as the Nigerian Express due to the number of Nigerians on their team. The goalie was swearing through out the game and a professor was standing behind the goal and translating for us. Cracked me up!

[ArkieDukie]

This would be great. It reminds me of the Duke v Clemson soccer game one year. Clemson was known as the Nigerian Express due to the number of Nigerians on their team. The goalie was swearing through out the game and a professor was standing behind the goal and translating for us. Cracked me up!

Here's a start:
Mimi nina kipofu, mimi nina viziwi, mimi unataka kuwa ref!

and, even more importantly...

Kwenda kuzimu, Carolina, kwenda kuzimu!

[DukieInKansas]

Here's a start:
Mimi nina kipofu, mimi nina viziwi, mimi unataka kuwa ref!

and, even more importantly...

Kwenda kuzimu, Carolina, kwenda kuzimu!

The first line doesn't translate back to English quite right. The second line needed no translation!

[oldnavy]

The article on the front page about K's response to a reporters question regarding if the USA team even needed coaching, is along the same line as this thread. In other words, is K even needed since he has the best talent.

I think his sarcastic reply tells us all that we need know about how he feels about the question "that good/great players don't really need coaching". They need coaching, just like lesser talented players would. They need to be brought together as a unit, and most of it might be psychological vs. X's and O's, but they need coaching.

So... is Roy overrated... he has won a lot of games with great talent... he has also struggled to adjust when his talent isn't so great... I think this is a GREAT question for debate that will NEVER be resolved. Just another log on the fire of the Duke UNC rivalry, the greatest in college sports!! Love it! Fun to argue...!

As far as Roy being a GREAT recruiter... I wonder how well he could recruit at Harvard, or at Iowa, or any other Non Blue Blood school. He does score a lot of talent for UNC, but didn't Matt Doherty bring in some really great talent as well at UNC? This question will probably never be answered, but it will always loom for those who want to find fault with Roy and his legacy...