Other College Basketball coaches think Roy Williams is overrated

[BD80]

... As far as Roy being a GREAT recruiter... I wonder how well he could recruit at Harvard, or at Iowa, or any other Non Blue Blood school. He does score a lot of talent for UNC, but didn't Matt Doherty bring in some really great talent as well at UNC? This question will probably never be answered, but it will always loom for those who want to find fault with Roy and his legacy...

But we must concede that ol' roy is a better coach than Doherty.

[ArkieDukie]

The article on the front page about K's response to a reporters question regarding if the USA team even needed coaching, is along the same line as this thread. In other words, is K even needed since he has the best talent.

I think his sarcastic reply tells us all that we need know about how he feels about the question "that good/great players don't really need coaching". They need coaching, just like lesser talented players would. They need to be brought together as a unit, and most of it might be psychological vs. X's and O's, but they need coaching.

So... is Roy overrated... he has won a lot of games with great talent... he has also struggled to adjust when his talent isn't so great... I think this is a GREAT question for debate that will NEVER be resolved. Just another log on the fire of the Duke UNC rivalry, the greatest in college sports!! Love it! Fun to argue...!

As far as Roy being a GREAT recruiter... I wonder how well he could recruit at Harvard, or at Iowa, or any other Non Blue Blood school. He does score a lot of talent for UNC, but didn't Matt Doherty bring in some really great talent as well at UNC? This question will probably never be answered, but it will always loom for those who want to find fault with Roy and his legacy...

Excellent post, oldnavy! This is among the most compelling counter-arguments to "Yeah, Roy wins; look at all the talent he has." It does take a certain amount of coaching skill to have a winning team with a group of individually talented players. Which he does, most of the time. Could he do better? Yeah - but most coaches could. Coach K would probably put himself in the group that could do better. Heckle him though we do, I think we all would admit that Roy's a better coach than Matt Doherty or Rick Barnes.

Coach K's answer to the reporter was classic. I read on ESPN that the question was asked by an American journalist. Wonder if that person is a UNC alum? Seriously, what a mean-spirited question.

[oldnavy]

Excellent post, oldnavy! This is among the most compelling counter-arguments to "Yeah, Roy wins; look at all the talent he has." It does take a certain amount of coaching skill to have a winning team with a group of individually talented players. Which he does, most of the time. Could he do better? Yeah - but most coaches could. Coach K would probably put himself in the group that could do better. Heckle him though we do, I think we all would admit that Roy's a better coach than Matt Doherty or Rick Barnes.

Coach K's answer to the reporter was classic. I read on ESPN that the question was asked by an American journalist. Wonder if that person is a UNC alum? Seriously, what a mean-spirited question.

I guess Coach K learned a little about how to handle reporters from Coach Knight as well. You are right, it was a very dumb question to ask the person himself. It would not be a very good question for any one, but to ask the coach of a team if he or she is needed on that team... I mean what kind of answer would you truely expect?

The idiot reporter must not be old enough to remember the US teams before K took over, and how they did basically do just that, role the ball out... what did we end up with the bronze??

I enjoyed the comments by both Collins and Rivers about how Coach K is about the team and how he gets everyone to buy into a role that will help the team win. And then Coach K's comments about how no one balked at doing whatever he asked of them. I think that the NBA players must have a lot of respect for Coach... lot's of egos that were put on hold for these games and a great effort against a really good Spanish team.

[Wander]

There's another thread on this already, but below is a link to an article with some comments from the same group of anonymous coaches on Coach K. The apparent difference in the level of respect college basketball coaches have for K vs Roy is amazing, and something I didn't really realize before.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ed-by-team-usa

[oldnavy]

There's another thread on this already, but below is a link to an article with some comments from the same group of anonymous coaches on Coach K. The apparent difference in the level of respect college basketball coaches have for K vs Roy is amazing, and something I didn't really realize before.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ed-by-team-usa

Well we know that Izzo got pretty upset with Roy over the comment regarding... Delvon Roe's recruitment. So maybe there are more incidences like this one that have gone unpublished... who knows.

Roy is a polorizing figure for sure. With his success and sometimes "foot in mouth" disease, it is no wonder that he may have hacked off some coaches along the way, and some are just probably jealous of his success at two really big time schools... thinking maybe he didn't have to pay his dues???

[Olympic Fan]

There's another thread on this already, but below is a link to an article with some comments from the same group of anonymous coaches on Coach K. The apparent difference in the level of respect college basketball coaches have for K vs Roy is amazing, and something I didn't really realize before.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ed-by-team-usa

I had to laugh ... anybody else remember the debate on this board back in 2005 about how taking the Olympic job would hurt K's recruiting. Hey, we didn't get Kenny Boynton because he was coaching at the Olympics!!!

[hudlow]

According to the other thread about UNC's academics and athletes, this idea that ol' Roy is overrated might hold more water than originally thought... We don't know how many games he won with academically ineligible players on the court...

But we do know there's a good possibility it happened.

What if he had to play the cards that were dealt to him like most other coaches do...?

[OldPhiKap]

According to the other thread about UNC's academics and athletes, this idea that ol' Roy is overrated might hold more water than originally thought... We don't know how many games he won with academically ineligible players on the court...

But we do know there's a good possibility it happened.

What if he had to play the cards that were dealt to him like most other coaches do...?

How does an athletic advisor direct athletes to crib courses for years, without the head coach knowing?

That's almost as implausible as a ticket office giving ... er, nevermind.

[oldnavy]

How does an athletic advisor direct athletes to crib courses for years, without the head coach knowing?

That's almost as implausible as a ticket office giving ... er, nevermind.

I think, no I am sure you really already know the answer... there really are only two possibilities. He knew and looked the other way, or he didn't know and is a stupid man... Roy is a lot of things, but he is not a stupid man.

My OPINION, is of course he knew, but he was smart enough to maintain plausable deniability. In otherwords, he knew, but he didn't KNOW if you know what I mean!

[OldPhiKap]

I think, no I am sure you really already know the answer... there really are only two possibilities. He knew and looked the other way, or he didn't know and is a stupid man... Roy is a lot of things, but he is not a stupid man.

My OPINION, is of course he knew, but he was smart enough to maintain plausable deniability. In otherwords, he knew, but he didn't KNOW if you know what I mean!

A nudge is as good as a wink to a blind man.

Say no more.

[dcdevil2009]

How does an athletic advisor direct athletes to crib courses for years, without the head coach knowing?

That's almost as implausible as a ticket office giving ... er, nevermind.

I'm sure Roy knew that they were taking those classes. It would be pretty absurd for the head coach not to have an idea of his players' schedules, especially in basketball where there are only about 48 classes total on a given semester (12 players * 4 classes). Whether he knew they were no show/no work classes is a different matter. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some idea that they were low work courses, but would be more surprised if he knew they was actually no work involved. In my time at Duke, I took a few classes that were notoriously easy, and often included athletes -- mostly athletes and seniors due to higher registration priority. Attendance wasn't taken or necessary to do well, but the athletes were there except when they in town. In my opinion, 50-60% of the people in those classes chose them because of how easy they were supposed to be, both athletes and non-athletes. Now I'm sure Coach K and Roof/Cutcliffe (and other sports' coaches) knew what classes their players were in, and that that the athletic department made a few courses off limits because of scheduling conflicts. However, I don't think it means the coaching staffs knew how easy or how little time commitment some of those courses were. Maybe they did, and maybe they did at UNC (there, the advisors certainly did, so it's more likely the coaches knew), but being head coach shouldn't make you a baby sitter for how much work your players' classes take.

[BD80]

I'm sure Roy knew that they were taking those classes. It would be pretty absurd for the head coach not to have an idea of his players' schedules, especially in basketball where there are only about 48 classes total on a given semester (12 players * 4 classes). Whether he knew they were no show/no work classes is a different matter. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some idea that they were low work courses, but would be more surprised if he knew they was actually no work involved. In my time at Duke, I took a few classes that were notoriously easy, and often included athletes -- mostly athletes and seniors due to higher registration priority. Attendance wasn't taken or necessary to do well, but the athletes were there except when they in town. In my opinion, 50-60% of the people in those classes chose them because of how easy they were supposed to be, both athletes and non-athletes. Now I'm sure Coach K and Roof/Cutcliffe (and other sports' coaches) knew what classes their players were in, and that that the athletic department made a few courses off limits because of scheduling conflicts. However, I don't think it means the coaching staffs knew how easy or how little time commitment some of those courses were. Maybe they did, and maybe they did at UNC (there, the advisors certainly did, so it's more likely the coaches knew), but being head coach shouldn't make you a baby sitter for how much work your players' classes take.

ol' roy is the CEO of a multi-million dollar enterprise. How many academic advisors are on staff that "supervise" the basketball teams' academic performance and eligibility? Given the financial stakes of each win with respect to basketball income (each win can mean a higher seed and another NCAA tourney win = $) it would be fiscal foolishness NOT to at least know the details of EACH class of EACH player - a whopping 48 classes IF no players are taking the same class. This would be particularly true of academically "at risk" players - such as the one indicated by the "test" transcript. A player in danger of losing eligibility would deserve special attention, and his courses would deserve extra scrutiny. Fortunately for ol' roy, that system was already in place - and the academic advisors to the athletic department knew what to do. They'd been doing it for years. Just because ol' roy may not have specifically known doesn't make him less culpable. He gets the big bucks because he IS responsible.

BS aside. Is there ANY chance that an athlete that NEEDS a good grade in a summer class to stay eligible and ends up in a "no-show" class and the athletic department didn't know?

[Kfanarmy]

I always figured if I had Earnhardt Jr.'s car and backing that I could wreck or finish back in the pack as good as he could...

I've always believed seeing his father die on the track has had an impact on his agressiveness...he was a star in spring a was very good early. I'm not sure that's happened to many college BBall coaches.

[Kfanarmy]

According to the other thread about UNC's academics and athletes, this idea that ol' Roy is overrated might hold more water than originally thought... We don't know how many games he won with academically ineligible players on the court...

But we do know there's a good possibility it happened

What if he had to play the cards that were dealt to him like most other coaches do...?

Like an awful lot of points made in this thread, this could support both the overrated and great coach views...after all, can't you also say he reached all those final fours and elite eights and piled up a great record with players who were so dull mentally that they had to be hearded into non classes in order to maintain eligibility?

[ThePublisher]

Overrated and I think soon to retire. That is before the investigation hits bball too hard.
Good thing construction on his retirement home is nearly finished.

[oldnavy]

Overrated and I think soon to retire. That is before the investigation hits bball too hard.
Good thing construction on his retirement home is nearly finished.

I have thought this as well. At what point does Ol Roy, say enough and retire back into the mountains. He has shown that he has a level of contempt for UNC fans by his comments to the media and by his reactions to callers on his radio show. He has some health problems. He has to have banked enough money by now to be very comfortable finacially.

I do wonder if this may be the last straw for him. I think that it is going to get hot for UNC basketball during this investigation and we all know that Roy isn one to be paient and take a lot of questions about how he does things. He can't be having a lot of fun right now.

I think he has to be thinking about it, but timing might be an issue. He probably 'wants' to go out on a high note, like most folks... now is not a great time to walk away.

[CDu]

I do wonder if this may be the last straw for him. I think that it is going to get hot for UNC basketball during this investigation and we all know that Roy isn one to be paient and take a lot of questions about how he does things. He can't be having a lot of fun right now.

Assuming anyone actually investigates this issue in any more detail. And assuming anyone actually pushes things over to the basketball side. At the pace things are going, I'm not convinced those bullets will ever be fired.

[ThePublisher]

Assuming anyone actually investigates this issue in any more detail. And assuming anyone actually pushes things over to the basketball side. At the pace things are going, I'm not convinced those bullets will ever be fired.

I agree that the recently hired, and no doubt biased, groups looking into this may "miss" something to do with bball.
However, I have supreme confidence that State fans will uncover the truth. They are an angry bunch.

[OldPhiKap]

I agree that the recently hired, and no doubt biased, groups looking into this may "miss" something to do with bball.
However, I have supreme confidence that State fans will uncover the truth. They are an angry bunch.

I don't know if they have a journalism school, but the Wolfpack faithful are doing a better job digging here than the Carolina-educated writers. Cudos.

[OldPhiKap]

Seemed appropriate to resurrect this thread.