1992 v 2012 Olympic BB Teams

[BD80]

I am not so quick to concede the hypothetical match-up to "the Dream Team" People forget that Bird (35) and Johnson (33) were at the end of their NBA careers. Robinson, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Mullins and Bird were never considered "fast" or "quick."

I also refuse to fawn over MJ the way DBR does. Yes, he was a winner, but I don't know how well his "machismo" would have worked with the other superstars if there were close games.

As great of an athlete as MJ was in his time, the current team has several that can physically matchup with him. I don't see how the Dream Team could cover LeBron, Melo, Kobe AND Durant.

Big difference: COACHING. Chuck Dailey was a great coach, but I would suggest that he didn't really get a chance to coach much. Coach K has these guys playing together as a TEAM. Five played for him in 2008, and five played for him in 2010. Here, MJ's ego is a detriment, and would give the 2012 team a BIG advantage.

I think it might look a bit like the 1991 NCAA semi-final game, with Laettner on the wrong side.

[turnandburn55]

I am not so quick to concede the hypothetical match-up to "the Dream Team" People forget that Bird (35) and Johnson (33) were at the end of their NBA careers. Robinson, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Mullins and Bird were never considered "fast" or "quick."

....

I don't see how the Dream Team could cover LeBron, Melo, Kobe AND Durant.

Kobe is older now than Magic was in 1992, and has considerably more mileage on his wheels. While Bird was at the end of his career, Magic had retirement forced upon him by HIV... he could still ball at an all-time level.

Drexler, MJ, Pippen, AND Magic would do just fine. 2012's big men would get annihalated in the paint. The four players you just named may be the only ones who would even make the 1992 roster, and I'm not sure about Melo.

[sporthenry]

Give this team Howard, Bynum and Bosh and I think you have a game. The one thing about this argument is that athletes are constantly getting bigger and stronger which is why it's tough to really compare generations. Defensively, Howard could probably contain any big man in history b/c of his strength and size so there goes a big advantage of the '92 team. And then if you make it a perimeter game, it gets real interesting. Pippen was a great defender so him against LeBron or Durant would be fun to watch. MJ versus Kobe. I'm sure Magic's size would have troubled the '12 team but who covers Paul, Westbrook, or a healthy Rose?

Another thing that people forget is that we are judging the '92 team in light of their full careers while we are judging 2012 team right now. 10 years from now how will we look back at this time. Yes they were called the dream team but I think when we look back at that team, we remember a lot of what Malone, Stockton, Jordan, Pippen, and Ewing did later in the 90's so I'd give this current dream team an incomplete b/c of injuries as well as lack of historical perspective.

But I think you'll just see the future teams get better and better. We already know what KI is capable of doing while Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Gordon, and Griffin are all young. You have players like MKG who is given the comparison to Pippen. And then you have a bevy of up and coming SFs who look to be coming up in the mold of Durants or LeBrons with Bazz, Jabari Parker, and Wiggins just to name a few (Granted Wiggins will lead Canada with a pretty bright future). So I think you'll see this argument come up more and more but it'll be tough for future teams to have that amount of HOFers especially since some of the older guys will probably get pushed out in the future.

[blazindw]

I want this team to win the gold first before comparing them to 1992. It's too hard to do so right now, especially since we haven't even seen them get a game in of any kind yet (exhibitions begin tonight). However, if they bring home the gold, with the competition being light years better now than it was in 1992, that would then be something for a serious debate.

[BobbyFan]

I am not so quick to concede the hypothetical match-up to "the Dream Team" People forget that Bird (35) and Johnson (33) were at the end of their NBA careers. Robinson, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Mullins and Bird were never considered "fast" or "quick."

I also refuse to fawn over MJ the way DBR does. Yes, he was a winner, but I don't know how well his "machismo" would have worked with the other superstars if there were close games.

As great of an athlete as MJ was in his time, the current team has several that can physically matchup with him. I don't see how the Dream Team could cover LeBron, Melo, Kobe AND Durant.

Big difference: COACHING. Chuck Dailey was a great coach, but I would suggest that he didn't really get a chance to coach much. Coach K has these guys playing together as a TEAM. Five played for him in 2008, and five played for him in 2010. Here, MJ's ego is a detriment, and would give the 2012 team a BIG advantage.

I don't know if you watched the Dream Team, but their individual styles were made for one another and it was easy for them to play together. Not only is Magic the greatest PG of all time, but he is the ideal player to run the show when trying to incorporate such talent. And he was only one year removed from a season in which he was still in his prime and took his team to the Finals.

The passing on that team was amazing, and they were devastating on the break. Chris Mullin is an example of a player who wasn't a superstar, but whose superb shooting and decision making were optimal compliments and made him one of their top offensive threats. The edge 1992 has with their big men in the post is obvious. On defense, Robinson and Ewing protected the paint while Jordan/Pippen were in their prime as 2 of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.

The Dream Team wasn't just a great collection of talent, but one that perfectly meshed. Aside from Bird and Stockton, who were not healthy, every player on that team was efficiently utilized leaving not even a hint of a weakness. I don't need to see how this year's version plays to know that 1992 was simply in a different league.

[brevity]

I want this team to win the gold first before comparing them to 1992. It's too hard to do so right now, especially since we haven't even seen them get a game in of any kind yet (exhibitions begin tonight). However, if they bring home the gold, with the competition being light years better now than it was in 1992, that would then be something for a serious debate.

Because the international competition is so much better now, you could argue that the 2012 team is better than the 1992 team regardless of whether they win gold. I am inclined to make this argument, but I would also like to see them in action first. Just because 10 of the 12 players are versatile enough to play multiple positions doesn't mean that they will mesh well together.

Another difference is that, give or take Isiah Thomas, the Dream Team was the best collection of talent at that time. The 2012 is only the best collection of uninjured talent.

Finally, I will say that in the category of Assistant Coaches, I give the edge to 1992:
http://www.dukeblueplanet.com/images...eam%20Team.jpg

[dcdevil2009]

Drexler, MJ, Pippen, AND Magic would do just fine. 2012's big men would get annihalated in the paint. The four players you just named may be the only ones who would even make the 1992 roster, and I'm not sure about Melo.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Which team would have more players if you were to make an 11 man team from the two teams (ignoring Laettner and Davis as 12th men). I think Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Ewing, and Robinson are locks. Magic and Bird, given their age would be a close call with Chris Paul and Carmelo. Two of those four would bring the roster to eight, while Barkley, Pippen, and someone else would bring it to eleven.

[phaedrus]

2012's big men would get annihalated in the paint.

Kevin Love just came off a season where he averaged 26 and 13, something neither Robinson nor Ewing ever did.

Tyson Chandler just won his first defensive player of the year, thus matching the combined total of Robinson and Ewing (only Robinson won). Of course, if Dwight were on the team, 2012 would also have the only player to have ever won three DPOYs in a row.

Ewing and Robinson are, obviously, the better duo. But I would argue that neither of them is more dynamic offensively than Love, neither is a particularly more accomplished defender than Chandler, and rebounding is a wash. No one (even hypothetically) is going to annihilate Love and Chandler.

[turnandburn55]

The one thing about this argument is that athletes are constantly getting bigger and stronger which is why it's tough to really compare generations.

Good point. The Dream Team had one player listed below 6'6" (John Stockton). Could you please list the players on the bigger, stronger 2012 team who are listed below 6'6"? Thanks.

[turnandburn55]

Tyson Chandler just won his first defensive player of the year, thus matching the combined total of Robinson and Ewing (only Robinson won).

So you're saying the 1992 Dream Team would have been in better shape if it had 2-time DPOY Mark Eaton on the team instead of Patrick Ewing?

[Starter]

That's an interesting way to look at it. Which team would have more players if you were to make an 11 man team from the two teams (ignoring Laettner and Davis as 12th men). I think Jordan, Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Ewing, and Robinson are locks. Magic and Bird, given their age would be a close call with Chris Paul and Carmelo. Two of those four would bring the roster to eight, while Barkley, Pippen, and someone else would bring it to eleven.

Barkley, Pippen and Malone would also be locks. Honestly, Magic too. He was 33, younger than Kobe is now. He just hadn't played in a year. But he was still totally awesome in the Olympics.

I watched tonight's game. Honestly, there's absolutely zero comparison in my mind between the '92 team and any current iteration. The '08 team, at the very least comparable to this team, barely beat the Gasols, Rudy Fernandez and 14-year-old Ricky Rubio. You think that could have happened to the Dream Team? Heck outta here with that. Jordan would have ripped out Rubio's heart and shown it to him; he wouldn't have got over halfcourt. A frontcourt of Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley against Chandler/Love/Anthony Davis? I mean, come on. Those are four Hall of Fame ballplayers in their primes. I even like Stockton's chances against Paul and Deron, who have him in quickness -- until he starts kneeing them in the thigh when they go by and stuff. At least to me, if you think this team is anywhere close to what the '92 team was in talent and chemistry? You trippin', homie.

[Des Esseintes]

Barkley, Pippen and Malone would also be locks. Honestly, Magic too. He was 33, younger than Kobe is now. He just hadn't played in a year. But he was still totally awesome in the Olympics.

I watched tonight's game. Honestly, there's absolutely zero comparison in my mind between the '92 team and any current iteration. The '08 team, at the very least comparable to this team, barely beat the Gasols, Rudy Fernandez and 14-year-old Ricky Rubio. You think that could have happened to the Dream Team? Heck outta here with that. Jordan would have ripped out Rubio's heart and shown it to him; he wouldn't have got over halfcourt. A frontcourt of Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley against Chandler/Love/Anthony Davis? I mean, come on. Those are four Hall of Fame ballplayers in their primes. I even like Stockton's chances against Paul and Deron, who have him in quickness -- until he starts kneeing them in the thigh when they go by and stuff. At least to me, if you think this team is anywhere close to what the '92 team was in talent and chemistry? You trippin', homie.

I don't have a complaint with your argument. It's pretty much how I feel as well. That said, I think it presumptuous to assume Stockton has a clear edge on Chris Paul when it comes to extra-legal tactics. I understand Stockton is the gold standard on that score, but Paul has a strong, strong argument already as an all-timer.

[Starter]

I don't have a complaint with your argument. It's pretty much how I feel as well. That said, I think it presumptuous to assume Stockton has a clear edge on Chris Paul when it comes to extra-legal tactics. I understand Stockton is the gold standard on that score, but Paul has a strong, strong argument already as an all-timer.

That's a very good point. Paul even kicks it up a notch by focusing on -- at risk of working a little blue -- the genitalia. The great part is that they both look so innocent, but are dirty sons of guns for sure. In certain ways, it's a dream matchup; they were made for each other.

[licc85]

I didn't like the way MJ responded to the comments by Kobe, he should have taken the high road . . because seriously, this is a stupid argument. You can try to talk yourself into this as much as you want, but in a 7 game series, it wouldn't matter even if this team had a healthy Howard/Rose/Griffin, the dream team would CRUSH them. In fact, I think only 3 or 4 players on this team could have even made the dream team. (LeBron, Kobe, KD, maybe CP3) Could they steal a game or even 2 in a 7 game series? Yeah probably, but that's it.

This team is easily the best in the world currently, but come on, just stop it. There's nothing to argue about.

[CDu]

I am not so quick to concede the hypothetical match-up to "the Dream Team" People forget that Bird (35) and Johnson (33) were at the end of their NBA careers. Robinson, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Mullins and Bird were never considered "fast" or "quick."

I also refuse to fawn over MJ the way DBR does. Yes, he was a winner, but I don't know how well his "machismo" would have worked with the other superstars if there were close games.

As great of an athlete as MJ was in his time, the current team has several that can physically matchup with him. I don't see how the Dream Team could cover LeBron, Melo, Kobe AND Durant.

Big difference: COACHING. Chuck Dailey was a great coach, but I would suggest that he didn't really get a chance to coach much. Coach K has these guys playing together as a TEAM. Five played for him in 2008, and five played for him in 2010. Here, MJ's ego is a detriment, and would give the 2012 team a BIG advantage.

I think it might look a bit like the 1991 NCAA semi-final game, with Laettner on the wrong side.

I think it would have been interesting. I totally agree about Bird and Johnson. They were basically legacy picks. Bird was done as an NBAer by that point. Johnson was still solid, but clearly on the downside. The same is true for Drexler. Mullin was on the very back end of his prime, but he was basically just a gunner.

The guys in their primes were Stockton, Malone, Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, and Robinson. James, Anthony, Williams, Paul, and Iguodala are in their primes for this team, with Durant, Love, Griffin and Westbrook on the rise (though already superstars) and Harden is a rising star (though not there yet). Bryant is a superstar on the back end of his prime.

The main difference I see is that the Dream Team had two elite C in their prime (Robinson and Ewing) and two elite PF in their prime (Malone and Barkley). So the question is whether the size and experience of the Dream Team would outweigh the athleticism of the current Olympic Team. In terms of star power, both teams had plenty.

Now, one might argue that Anthony, Griffin, and James could handle the defensive assignment on those two, while punishing them from the perimeter or with athleticism. So maybe it's a draw at PF (an edge to the current team if James plays PF). And you could make the same argument for Love, but not Chandler. So a definite edge to the Dream Team at C. On the perimeter, I'd take Durant, James, and Bryant over Jordan, Pippen, and Drexler (the edge tips back to the Dream Team if James is a PF). I'd call Paul-in-his-prime and a past-his-prime Magic a slight edge to today's group. Among the bench guards, I'd take Stockton over Williams at backup PG. I'd take Mullin over Harden at designated shooter.

So I'd give the starting lineup edge to the current squad, but the bench edge goes to the Dream Team. And overall I'd take the Dream Team. But I think it's closer than many would presume.

[phaedrus]

So you're saying the 1992 Dream Team would have been in better shape if it had 2-time DPOY Mark Eaton on the team instead of Patrick Ewing?

Obviously. Chandler tops Ewing in that other all-important category, too: titles. Case closed!

[sporthenry]

Good point. The Dream Team had one player listed below 6'6" (John Stockton). Could you please list the players on the bigger, stronger 2012 team who are listed below 6'6"? Thanks.

LeBron James is listed as 250 pounds. The Dream Team had one guy at 250 pounds and one guy at 255 pounds. Those two were Malone and Barkley. You really think one of those could cover LeBron? Pippen at 210? LeBron would just go to the block and go to work on Pippen. Throw in Dwight Howard who is at 265 and I think he effectively shuts down either Robinson or Ewing who are sitting at 235 and 240 pounds respectively. Kevin Durant weighs as much as David Robinson did. Just think about that for a second. The strength and explosiveness of the current team would be off the charts in 1992. Of course there is no way to measure that but you really think they could effectively keep Rose or Westbrook from getting to the rim because I don't.

I think it'd be a closely contested series but I think people view the 1992 team so much differently b/c they were the first of their kind and they revolutionized basketball at least international basketball. And as I mentioned before we look back and see 11 HOFers but who knows what this Team USA will look like in 20 years. Durant, Kobe, Lebron, and Wade are probably locks for the Hall and Howard, Paul, Williams, Rose, Westbrook, Love, Aldridge, and Griffin could all get in. Heck, we may look back and Anthony Davis might be one of the best players on this team and Irving might be better than the rest of the PGs when all is said and done.

But basketball is played 5 guys at a time and put their best 5 against our best 5 without injuries and you have a game. Not to mention the level of play the USA team faced in 1992 doesn't seem close to what 2012 will face. Certainly, the 1992 team faced a lot of unknowns but facing Kukoc before he was in the NBA or Arvydas Sabonis doesn't compare to the Gasols, Ibaka, Varejao, Manu, etc. I'm sure there were some players who would have been good NBA players who never came over in 1992 but perhaps the best thing the '92 team did to maintain its dominance was make sure that future international teams had the likes of Dirk on their team.

[FerryFor50]

I think people are WAY over-estimating the 1992 Dream Team.

They ran roughshod over an international basketball community that was absolute GARBAGE. BBall had not really taken off yet internationally, so they didn't see even close to the talent level seen today.

Jordan was great, but how great would he have been with Lebron pounding on him? No one in 1992 was 6'8", 250lbs and as freakishly athletic AND talented as Lebron is. So, to me, they cancel each other out.

So, remove Jordan and Lebron, and you're left with a pretty decent matchup. The 1992 team had elite bigs, so they'd likely pound it inside and win the game, but it wouldn't be a total destruction like everyone makes it out to be...

[UrinalCake]

LeBron James is listed as 250 pounds. The Dream Team had one guy at 250 pounds and one guy at 255 pounds. Those two were Malone and Barkley. You really think one of those could cover LeBron? Pippen at 210? LeBron would just go to the block and go to work on Pippen. Throw in Dwight Howard who is at 265 and I think he effectively shuts down either Robinson or Ewing who are sitting at 235 and 240 pounds respectively. Kevin Durant weighs as much as David Robinson did. Just think about that for a second. The strength and explosiveness of the current team would be off the charts in 1992. Of course there is no way to measure that but you really think they could effectively keep Rose or Westbrook from getting to the rim because I don't..

I think this is a really important point and the reason why it would be a close game. As others have mentioned, players today are bigger, faster, and stronger. You can't really compare across generations because we don't have a time machine. Malone was the epitome of strength in that era, but I'd venture to guess that James, Griffin, and Anthony are just as strong today. Also, defense today is far more complex and deliberate than it was in the 90's. When I see old clips of games from back then I basically see five defenders just standing around. And finally, the big guys on the current team can all handle the ball and shoot from the outside, except for Chandler and Davis. That would create a real matchup problem.

[Starter]

I think it would have been interesting. I totally agree about Bird and Johnson. They were basically legacy picks. Bird was done as an NBAer by that point. Johnson was still solid, but clearly on the downside. The same is true for Drexler. Mullin was on the very back end of his prime, but he was basically just a gunner.

The guys in their primes were Stockton, Malone, Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, and Robinson. James, Anthony, Williams, Paul, and Iguodala are in their primes for this team, with Durant, Love, Griffin and Westbrook on the rise (though already superstars) and Harden is a rising star (though not there yet). Bryant is a superstar on the back end of his prime.

The main difference I see is that the Dream Team had two elite C in their prime (Robinson and Ewing) and two elite PF in their prime (Malone and Barkley). So the question is whether the size and experience of the Dream Team would outweigh the athleticism of the current Olympic Team. In terms of star power, both teams had plenty.

Now, one might argue that Anthony, Griffin, and James could handle the defensive assignment on those two, while punishing them from the perimeter or with athleticism. So maybe it's a draw at PF (an edge to the current team if James plays PF). And you could make the same argument for Love, but not Chandler. So a definite edge to the Dream Team at C. On the perimeter, I'd take Durant, James, and Bryant over Jordan, Pippen, and Drexler (the edge tips back to the Dream Team if James is a PF). I'd call Paul-in-his-prime and a past-his-prime Magic a slight edge to today's group. Among the bench guards, I'd take Stockton over Williams at backup PG. I'd take Mullin over Harden at designated shooter.

So I'd give the starting lineup edge to the current squad, but the bench edge goes to the Dream Team. And overall I'd take the Dream Team. But I think it's closer than many would presume.

Pretty good analysis, that matchup on the wing would be epic. Just a couple minor points here: Carmelo is a pretty lousy defender on most nights -- trust me -- and Griffin is fairly below average (and now injured, of course). LeBron is great, but I'd feel the '92 team would have an overwhelming edge at power forward with two of the greatest of all time on the team, even if Love is playing the 4. Same goes for center, like you said. I think even if we're charitable, heal Dwight's back and throw him in the mix, people forget just how dynamic and awesome Ewing and Robinson were back then on both ends.

Bird played two games in the Olympics, I think? He was pretty shot. (He still hit everything he shot, though!) But Magic was hardly a legacy pick to me, he was only a year removed from the game and was still a totally awesome basketball player that summer. Drexler was about at the midpoint, but he was coming off a great season and was very good for a number of years after the Olympics. Mullin was 29 and sandwiched in between two 25 ppg seasons, and for a long-distance marksman, the guy shot over 50% for his career. (!) He did drop off pretty significantly scoring-wise in the mid-90's, though I work with a close family member of Mullin's who claims it was off-court issues that slowed him down. I believe him, especially given what we've heard about the early portions of his career dating back to St. John's, but even after he was no longer a truly exceptional player, he was still one of the best shooters in the NBA for like another decade.

Durant, Kobe and LeBron are very difficult matchups for anyone, even the '92 Olympic team. But Pippen was an all-time great defender, and Jordan was obviously fantastic -- and then there's the matter of attempting to contain the '92 version of Jordan, which was perhaps the greatest iteration of any player I've ever seen. Pippen and Drexler were no slouches themselves, and their scoring averages probably would have looked a lot more impressive if they didn't have to deal with hand checks or forearms in their prime.

Obviously, I can only dream about seeing players of this caliber across eras match up, which is why this debate isn't silly to me. Given the attention it's getting -- even on this board, from NBA fans like CDu and Des Esseintes -- I'm not the only one enjoying this. And that's kind of what matters.