More info on UNC academic scandal

[Jarhead]

I'm not sure that they've gone to hell, but they have gone to pot!

About 42 grams of it.

[MCFinARL]

I agree, and when this happened had a lot of questions here. As well as Syracuse, and what JB seeks in his players. BTW these 2 schools do not even touch Marylands poor academic record either which left. Academically we brought in 2 losers in Louisville and Syracuse. That is the problem the ACC has to deal with. A good point my friend. I am very upset at this move, it was about athletics, not academics IMO. Have nice day, Jimmy

It's important here to distinguish between the academic record of these schools' athletic teams and their general academic performance. None of the three schools is impressive in terms of academic standards for athletes, but Maryland and Syracuse are both far stronger schools in terms of general population academics than Louisville. In fact, it's quite possible that Louisville's athletes are much closer to the (rather low) general academic standards of the university than those at Maryland, Syracuse, or many other universities; if so (I confess I am too tired to try to research this), the Louisville athletic programs may have a certain "student-athlete" legitimacy despite the fact that they lack significant numbers of rocket scientists.

[DukeAlumBS]

It's important here to distinguish between the academic record of these schools' athletic teams and their general academic performance. None of the three schools is impressive in terms of academic standards for athletes, but Maryland and Syracuse are both far stronger schools in terms of general population academics than Louisville. In fact, it's quite possible that Louisville's athletes are much closer to the (rather low) general academic standards of the university than those at Maryland, Syracuse, or many other universities; if so (I confess I am too tired to try to research this), the Louisville athletic programs may have a certain "student-athlete" legitimacy despite the fact that they lack significant numbers of rocket scientists.

I was talking about academic standards for athletes. You are right about Syracuse for that matter. It is a great place academically for their general population. They have a poor standard for their athletes. Louisville BTW is 36 percent graduate at 6 years. The norm is to shoot for 4 years. Syracuse went from 56 percent to 60 something. IMO is very poor. I just want to keep this one on the burner over the weekend. You have a nice weekend!
Jimmy

[DukeAlumBS]

Any idea when SACS comes to UNC CH ? Very curious on this one. Eamonn Brennan at ESPN had a nice plug at ESPN about the academic troubles at Chapel Hill. I thought he was trying to push this issue IMO? Nice day my friends, Jimmy

[DrChainsaw]

Any idea when SACS comes to UNC CH ? Very curious on this one. Eamonn Brennan at ESPN had a nice plug at ESPN about the academic troubles at Chapel Hill. I thought he was trying to push this issue IMO? Nice day my friends, Jimmy

Looks like they skate - no class attendance, but at least they have to write a term paper at the end....

http://www.unc.edu/news/FYI/2013/06message/

[moonpie23]

Looks like they skate - no class attendance, but at least they have to write a term paper at the end....

http://www.unc.edu/news/FYI/2013/06message/

of COURSE they skate....

[DukeAlumBS]

Thank you for finding this. I guessed they would. I think going forward this UNC issue will hurt them from here on out. It is too much to break away from. Have nice day. Jimmy

[Newton_14]

Looks like they skate - no class attendance, but at least they have to write a term paper at the end....

http://www.unc.edu/news/FYI/2013/06message/

That article and letter sugar coats the situation a bit. They did keep the accreditation, but were put on probation for a year. If they have more issues during the probation period they could easily lose the accreditation.

[sagegrouse]

That article and letter sugar coats the situation a bit. They did keep the accreditation, but were put on probation for a year. If they have more issues during the probation period they could easily lose the accreditation.

This is still a slap in the face. UNC was one of six universities who founded SACS, and now it had to be reviewed because of academic irregularities.

I know Trinity (pre-Duke) was also a founding member

sagegrouse

[Trinity_93]

Hi all. Can someone help me find where this argument fails? I can't.

Let us assume that Carolina's two title teams of 2005 and 2009 did not play any players who would be ineligible without the fake AFAM classes.

Would Carolina not then have issued a statement to that effect? Something like, say, "We have retroactively reviewed our players' eligibility with regard to the suspect classes and can assure the public and the NCAA that Carolina did not play an ineligible player during either of its two title runs. Go Heels!"

That would not have been a FERPA violation since no player's records would be identifiable. It would take the university administration an hour to check since they have access to all the transcripts. It would quiet a lot of the uproar, since the reason people are pushing so hard on this is the question of the two championship banners, just as former chancellor Moeser recently pointed out in his Chapel Hill interview.

Is there any conceivable reason that UNC hasn't issued such a statement unless it isn't true?

Proof of guilt by contradiction. QED. 9F.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Is there any conceivable reason that UNC hasn't issued such a statement unless it isn't true?

Dodge, duck, dip, dive and... dodge

[davekay1971]

Hi all. Can someone help me find where this argument fails? I can't.

Let us assume that Carolina's two title teams of 2005 and 2009 did not play any players who would be ineligible without the fake AFAM classes.

Would Carolina not then have issued a statement to that effect? Something like, say, "We have retroactively reviewed our players' eligibility with regard to the suspect classes and can assure the public and the NCAA that Carolina did not play an ineligible player during either of its two title runs. Go Heels!"

9F.

So far the NCAA has pretended as if the AFAM issue has no possible connection to the UNC basketball program, much less the 2005 and 2009 championship teams. The UNC fans and boosters have pretended as if the AFAM issue has no possible connection to the UNC basketball program.

If the NCAA and the people who support and give money to UNC are willing to pretend the AFAM scandal is not relevant to the basketball program, why in the world would UNC make any statement addressing the obvious connection that the oversight folks and their own fans and supporters are more than willing to ignore?

The only reasons UNC would make such a statement would be:

1) They had proof to back up such a statement. Since the 2005 and 2009 teams BOTH involved players taking sham courses (or, in the case of the 2009 team, players who had resumes stuffed with such courses at least through the 2008 academic year), this reason clearly doesn't apply.

2) UNC felt like their fans needed such reassurance. Since UNC's fans have shown that they could care less whether their school does things in the mythical "Carolina Way", this reason doesn't apply either.

3) UNC gave a crap what non-UNC fans think about their program's validity. UNC's done nothing to this point except the awesome Dodgeball quote above. The whole nation can assume they're guilty, but who cares what the nation thinks, as long as the NCAA is willing to turn a blind eye...so this reason doesn't apply either.

Don't expect any statement from UNC drawing any attention to the obvious link between the AFAM scandal and the basketball team. UNC has taken a play from the Washington DC playbook: deny, avoid, evade, and wait for the 24 hour news cycle and the nation's ADHD to wash the issue down the sewers. After all, it's only a matter of time before Kim Kardashian and Honey Boo Boo do something...

As a sort-of-aside: expect the NCAA to diligently pursue the PJ Hairston agent connection issue, and for UNC to not fight it. It's in the interest of both the NCAA and UNC to sacrifice one year of eligibility for one player so that both corrupt institutions can claim that the NCAA isn't giving UNC special treatment or a free pass. Two major revenue generating programs getting a competitive advantage for over a decade from a series of sham grades and courses, invalidating two national championships: a big mess that neither UNC or the NCAA wants to deal with. One guy getting a free rental from an agent: let's make a big show of enforcing those NCAA rules!

[sagegrouse]

Hi all. Can someone help me find where this argument fails? I can't.

Let us assume that Carolina's two title teams of 2005 and 2009 did not play any players who would be ineligible without the fake AFAM classes.

Would Carolina not then have issued a statement to that effect? Something like, say, "We have retroactively reviewed our players' eligibility with regard to the suspect classes and can assure the public and the NCAA that Carolina did not play an ineligible player during either of its two title runs. Go Heels!"

That would not have been a FERPA violation since no player's records would be identifiable. It would take the university administration an hour to check since they have access to all the transcripts. It would quiet a lot of the uproar, since the reason people are pushing so hard on this is the question of the two championship banners, just as former chancellor Moeser recently pointed out in his Chapel Hill interview.

Is there any conceivable reason that UNC hasn't issued such a statement unless it isn't true?

Proof of guilt by contradiction. QED. 9F.

Lyndon Johnson, an earthy sort if there ever was one, once went around his congressional district accusing an opponent of having sex with animals. "Lyndon," said a friend, "Why do you say that. You know it isn't true." "I know," said Lyndon, "but I like hearing him deny it."

I can't imagine why UNC would ever issue a statetment denying something it hasn't been formally accused of.

sagegrouse

[JasonEvans]

Dodge, duck, dip, dive and... dodge

[MCFinARL]

Lyndon Johnson, an earthy sort if there ever was one, once went around his congressional district accusing an opponent of having sex with animals. "Lyndon," said a friend, "Why do you say that. You know it isn't true." "I know," said Lyndon, "but I like hearing him deny it."

I can't imagine why UNC would ever issue a statetment denying something it hasn't been formally accused of.

sagegrouse

Years ago Nina Totenberg wrote an article in a now-defunct magazine called, I think, New Times, about her nominees for the ten dumbest members of Congress. Sure enough, number 1 held a press conference to deny that he was the dumbest member of Congress, thus bringing a great deal more attention to a piece in an otherwise fairly obscure magazine. QED.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

With respect to front page article link on UNC's APR, I don't see where a problem exists for the holes. Being ineligible hasn't prevented them from "winning" football championships and distributing rings. They're going to be just fine.

[Jarhead]

...They're going to be just fine.

... as they spiral downward.

[hudlow]

... as they spiral downward.

lowering the bar...

[OldPhiKap]

lowering the bar...

Videri Quam Esse

[camion]

I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything. -- Bart Simpson