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  1. #1021

    Throwing rocks

    I despise the Heels as much as the next guy but I think this is all a little over the top. Maybe a lot has changed since the 80s (and I hate to name drop) but I spent a fair amount of time with Snyder, Danny, King, Lebo, Wolf, Kenny Smith and a few others. I also spent 4.5 years getting my undergraduate degree from Duke. Here is what I know to be true at UNC, Duke and many other schools (from what I hear it has not changed): 1) There are automatic As for regular students and athletes alike, 2) the athletes actually have to study and attend classes more than the regular students, 3) the athletes have remarkable advantages such as typed notes provided by another student in their classes, 4) athletes are very closely monitored so when they start doing poorly it is caught and corrected quickly, 5) athletes leaving early for the NBA usually stop going to school in the spring semester.

    I will not mention the name but I recall being impressed that a prominent Duke athlete received a failing grade in a class - I had incorrectly assumed they would be "taken care of". I was similarly impressed to learn that Julius Pepper's had Ds and Fs on his transcript. I presume their are many traditional southern football powers whose stars do not have any failing grades and I suspect it is not because they are on their way to the Rhodes.

    I bristle when our institution is unfairly scrutinized so in good conscience I must do the same for others.

  2. #1022
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rent free in tarheels’ heads
    Quote Originally Posted by bronston22 View Post
    I despise the Heels as much as the next guy but I think this is all a little over the top. Maybe a lot has changed since the 80s (and I hate to name drop) but I spent a fair amount of time with Snyder, Danny, King, Lebo, Wolf, Kenny Smith and a few others. I also spent 4.5 years getting my undergraduate degree from Duke. Here is what I know to be true at UNC, Duke and many other schools (from what I hear it has not changed): 1) There are automatic As for regular students and athletes alike, 2) the athletes actually have to study and attend classes more than the regular students, 3) the athletes have remarkable advantages such as typed notes provided by another student in their classes, 4) athletes are very closely monitored so when they start doing poorly it is caught and corrected quickly, 5) athletes leaving early for the NBA usually stop going to school in the spring semester.

    I will not mention the name but I recall being impressed that a prominent Duke athlete received a failing grade in a class - I had incorrectly assumed they would be "taken care of". I was similarly impressed to learn that Julius Pepper's had Ds and Fs on his transcript. I presume their are many traditional southern football powers whose stars do not have any failing grades and I suspect it is not because they are on their way to the Rhodes.

    I bristle when our institution is unfairly scrutinized so in good conscience I must do the same for others.
    If you were impressed that the real professors gave peppers D's and F's, then you should be equally (if not more) dismayed that many others went so far out of their way to "correct" his eligibility by ensuring A's and B's in fraudulent classes. None of this is over the top as you say. It's flat out lying and cheating and it's disgusting.

  3. #1023
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bronston22 View Post
    I despise the Heels as much as the next guy but I think this is all a little over the top. Maybe a lot has changed since the 80s (and I hate to name drop) but I spent a fair amount of time with Snyder, Danny, King, Lebo, Wolf, Kenny Smith and a few others. I also spent 4.5 years getting my undergraduate degree from Duke. Here is what I know to be true at UNC, Duke and many other schools (from what I hear it has not changed): 1) There are automatic As for regular students and athletes alike, 2) the athletes actually have to study and attend classes more than the regular students, 3) the athletes have remarkable advantages such as typed notes provided by another student in their classes, 4) athletes are very closely monitored so when they start doing poorly it is caught and corrected quickly, 5) athletes leaving early for the NBA usually stop going to school in the spring semester.

    I will not mention the name but I recall being impressed that a prominent Duke athlete received a failing grade in a class - I had incorrectly assumed they would be "taken care of". I was similarly impressed to learn that Julius Pepper's had Ds and Fs on his transcript. I presume their are many traditional southern football powers whose stars do not have any failing grades and I suspect it is not because they are on their way to the Rhodes.

    I bristle when our institution is unfairly scrutinized so in good conscience I must do the same for others.
    I am guessing from the names you mentioned that we must have been at Duke around the same time (Ferry and Snyder were in my class of '89) and, wow, I - and my GPA - would have loved to have heard about some of those "automatic As" you speak of. Frankly, I have NEVER heard of something like that at Duke and sincerely hope that it didn't go on in the 80's, today or any other era.

  4. #1024
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bronston22 View Post
    5) athletes leaving early for the NBA usually stop going to school in the spring semester.
    This may still happen in some instances, but with the Academic Progress Requirements in place, coaches need their players to remain in good academic standing throughout the spring, else the program will be penalized when the player leaves early. If he remains in good standing, then there is no penalty. The player himself has no real motivation to keep going to class, but my personal belief is that for players who are likely to be one and done's, the coaches must discuss this issue with them prior to them coming and get them to commit to staying in school the whole year. Credit Calipari for getting all of his sure-fire one and done'rs to stay in good academic standing even as they pass through the revolving door. Because really, if a guy knows he's only there for a year, he just needs to take the bare minimum for the FALL semester so he can play in the spring, then doesn't have to attend any classes in the spring at all.

    As for the new article that came out today, wow, it sure looks like this isn't going away. Glad to see it appear on ESPN.com, who has otherwise avoided this story like the plague. How much longer can the NCAA ignore it too?

  5. #1025
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arden, NC
    Here is a link to a ESPN article from the other day. I had never heard of the Drake Group or the Robert Maynard Hutchins Award. But it sounds like they are not fans of the UNC sports programs.


    http://espn.go.com/blog/north-carolina-basketball

  6. #1026

    smoking gun?

    Explosive new article by Dan Kane of the N&0 (who has kept this story alive despite UNC attempts to sweep it under the rug). UNC finally had to release a number of e-mails under an N&0 FOI request (made more than a year ago). The new material proves that UNC athletic support personnel were heavily involved in setting up the fake classes in the AFAM department, that Julius Nyang'oro was plied with tickets sideline passes -- and there is even a reference to "cash" -- to thank him for his help.

    The irony is that Jim Martin's report concluded that this was not an athletic scandal because many non-athletes were involved (even if the majority WERE athletes). Kane has uncovered a 2005 e-mail from Debbie Crowder (an administrative aide if the AFAM department) complaining that news of the phony classes had leaked before the athletic department through "the frat boy circuit" -- and that non-athletes were signing up for the fake classes designed to help athletes.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/...-chairman.html

    How about this bit?

    In one email from September 2009, Cynthia Reynolds, a former associate director who oversaw academic support for football players, told Nyang’oro in an email that “I hear you are doing me a big favor this semester and that I should be bringing you lots of gifts and cash???????”

  7. #1027
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Explosive new article by Dan Kane of the N&0 (who has kept this story alive despite UNC attempts to sweep it under the rug). UNC finally had to release a number of e-mails under an N&0 FOI request (made more than a year ago). The new material proves that UNC athletic support personnel were heavily involved in setting up the fake classes in the AFAM department, that Julius Nyang'oro was plied with tickets sideline passes -- and there is even a reference to "cash" -- to thank him for his help.

    The irony is that Jim Martin's report concluded that this was not an athletic scandal because many non-athletes were involved (even if the majority WERE athletes). Kane has uncovered a 2005 e-mail from Debbie Crowder (an administrative aide if the AFAM department) complaining that news of the phony classes had leaked before the athletic department through "the frat boy circuit" -- and that non-athletes were signing up for the fake classes designed to help athletes.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/...-chairman.html

    How about this bit?

    In one email from September 2009, Cynthia Reynolds, a former associate director who oversaw academic support for football players, told Nyang’oro in an email that “I hear you are doing me a big favor this semester and that I should be bringing you lots of gifts and cash???????”
    Further proof that the athletics academic support structure was coordinating and cooperating with the AFAM department to provide courses to keep athletes eligible. This is definitely a smoking gun. Sadly, UNC continues to do the duck/cover/deny routine.

  8. #1028
    Sad for me to find out Jim Martin is a complete fraud. How did the UNC powers convince him to coverup?

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    Sad for me to find out Jim Martin is a complete fraud. How did the UNC powers convince him to coverup?
    You know you have to protect the carolina way (down)

  10. #1030
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    Sad for me to find out Jim Martin is a complete fraud. How did the UNC powers convince him to coverup?
    Ummm...because he's a politician?

    "Governor Martin, would you be willing to lie through your teeth to help out the most popular sports program in the state, thus endearing you to millions of Tarheel fans who could give a rat's patootie about doing things the 'Carolina Way', but who will eternally love anyone who helps to keep the basketball program out of trouble?"

    "Is this a trick question?"

  11. #1031
    Every time this thread pops back to the top I get this vision of light blue sweater vest clad fat-bellied guys guffawing.
    It's unnerving.

  12. #1032
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Every time this thread pops back to the top I get this vision of light blue sweater vest clad fat-bellied guys guffawing.
    It's unnerving.
    No doubt but surely there must be someone over there who cares that their chancellor by all appearances is a bold-face liar. It makes me wonder what WashU in St. Louis sees in the guy.

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Every time this thread pops back to the top I get this vision of light blue sweater vest clad fat-bellied guys guffawing.
    It's unnerving.
    Yeah, and when they finally change clothing it is into a green polo shirt, yellow slacks and weejuns with no socks.

  14. #1034
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Explosive new article by Dan Kane of the N&0 ... UNC finally had to release a number of e-mails under an N&0 FOI request ... The new material proves that UNC athletic support personnel were heavily involved in setting up the fake classes in the AFAM department, that Julius Nyang'oro was plied with tickets sideline passes -- and there is even a reference to "cash" -- to thank him for his help.

    The irony is that Jim Martin's report concluded that this was not an athletic scandal because many non-athletes were involved ...
    Ummm. Did Martin have access to these emails?

  15. #1035

    martin

    If Martin has done a REAL investigation, he would have seen the e-mails ... but it was obvious that his "investigation" was a coverup -- he even admitted his failure to contact most of the key players in the scandal. He said he called, but they didn't return his call.

    The e-mails that Kane is reporting on were requested BEFORE Martin started his sham investigation. Martin had to know they might be relevant. Did he even bother to request them? And if he did, did UNC refuse to let him see them? If the first case, then he's totally inept. If they second case, he's totally corrupt (because an honest man would have resigned when he saw that UNC was hiding information). If he did see the e-mails and still reported that this was not an athletic issue, then he's a lying $%&$.

    One more interesting item -- these are not all the e-mails that the N&O requested under the FOI. UNC is still resisting the release of some. Think about that -- if there is something worse than THESE e-mails ... wow!

    Actually, Kane has talked about one of his targets. He wants e-mails discussing the setup of one particular class -- a fake class that included just two students (both basketball players) which never met, in which grades were issued over the forged signature of the supposed instructor. We know that much -- Kane is trying to find out who set up the class and how ... so gat UNC has refused to release the e-mails, claiming that since just two students were involved, it would be easy to devine their identities -- thus violating their FERPA rights.

  16. #1036
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    ... Actually, Kane has talked about one of his targets. He wants e-mails discussing the setup of one particular class -- a fake class that included just two students (both basketball players) which never met, in which grades were issued over the forged signature of the supposed instructor. We know that much -- Kane is trying to find out who set up the class and how ... so gat UNC has refused to release the e-mails, claiming that since just two students were involved, it would be easy to devine their identities -- thus violating their FERPA rights.
    Isn't there a fraud exception with respect to disclosure? Taking a fraudulent class to maintain eligibility for a scholarship at a federally funded university should vitiate any claim of privacy to records with respect to the fraudulent class.

    I think there is no argument that the classes were fraudulent, so the records should be available.

  17. #1037
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    If Martin has done a REAL investigation, he would have seen the e-mails ... but it was obvious that his "investigation" was a coverup -- he even admitted his failure to contact most of the key players in the scandal. He said he called, but they didn't return his call.

    The e-mails that Kane is reporting on were requested BEFORE Martin started his sham investigation. Martin had to know they might be relevant. Did he even bother to request them? And if he did, did UNC refuse to let him see them? If the first case, then he's totally inept. If they second case, he's totally corrupt (because an honest man would have resigned when he saw that UNC was hiding information). If he did see the e-mails and still reported that this was not an athletic issue, then he's a lying $%&$.

    One more interesting item -- these are not all the e-mails that the N&O requested under the FOI. UNC is still resisting the release of some. Think about that -- if there is something worse than THESE e-mails ... wow!

    Actually, Kane has talked about one of his targets. He wants e-mails discussing the setup of one particular class -- a fake class that included just two students (both basketball players) which never met, in which grades were issued over the forged signature of the supposed instructor. We know that much -- Kane is trying to find out who set up the class and how ... so gat UNC has refused to release the e-mails, claiming that since just two students were involved, it would be easy to devine their identities -- thus violating their FERPA rights.
    By far the most damning part to me is the part about the frat boys finding out about the no show classes. These classes were clearly set up just for athletes and the previous defense that these were classes available to everyone now seems obvious not to be the truth. What a mess.

    Howard
    Last edited by Newton_14; 06-09-2013 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Rumor Mongering

  18. #1038
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Quote Originally Posted by howardlander View Post
    By far the most damning part to me is the part about the frat boys finding out about the no show classes. These classes were clearly set up just for athletes and the previous defense that these were classes available to everyone now seems obvious not to be the truth. What a mess.

    Howard
    I love the fact that a student athlete at kerlina responds to a cheating scandal by saying, "Hey, no fair, I want to cheat too!"
    Last edited by Newton_14; 06-09-2013 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Redacted Rumor Mongering

  19. #1039
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    I love the fact that a student athlete at kerlina responds to a cheating scandal by saying, "Hey, no fair, I want to cheat too!"
    But its not cheating if everyone gets to do it! It is the carolina way!

  20. #1040
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    I particularly like this quote:

    "In one email from September 2009, Cynthia Reynolds, a former associate director who oversaw academic support for football players, told Nyang’oro in an email that “I hear you are doing me a big favor this semester and that I should be bringing you lots of gifts and cash???????”

    Surely they jest.

    (And don't call me Shirley!)
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

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