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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    I know Iím asking for trouble, but Iíve got to ask this question. Having read the UNC scandal thread as well as the Penn State thread. What makes all of you think that something like this couldnít happen at Duke?

    During my lifetime experiences serving 20 years in the Army and now working 19 years for a Fortune 500 corporation, I hold the view that large institutions have a very hard time policing themselves and that they often will look to take the easy way out when trouble rears its ugly head.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I know I’m asking for trouble, but I’ve got to ask this question. Having read the UNC scandal thread as well as the Penn State thread. What makes all of you think that something like this couldn’t happen at Duke?

    During my lifetime experiences serving 20 years in the Army and now working 19 years for a Fortune 500 corporation, I hold the view that large institutions have a very hard time policing themselves and that they often will look to take the easy way out when trouble rears its ugly head.
    Easy, the man at the top of the program. Not to say an isolated incident could happen of some sordid type, but I would bet everything I own that K would take ownership of the issue and not rest until it was dealt with properly. No one at Duke would tell him how to handle a child abuse scandal in the BB program. Paterno's comment that he was told by administration NOT to hold a presser, would not happen at Duke. Well, K may be told that, but he would blow it off if he felt he needed to. It is all about the character and courage of the man at the top of the program and what they are willing to risk to do the right thing. I think K would give up everything he has rather than cover up or take a back seat in something of this magnitude.

    I cannot say that is what JoePa did, I don't have the facts, but IMO, K would have handled it much different by taking command of the situation from the start.

    With your time in the Army, you must have seen leaders like this. Leaders who did the right thing regardless of the impact on their careers. The ones you respected immediately, not the political kiss tails. You probably saw others that would do whatever they had to do to CYA. I know I did in the Navy. Fortunately the CYA'ers were in the minority in my experience.

    Anything is possible, but I think the answer to your question is coach K, that is why it wouldn't have gone as far as it did at PSU.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeBlueDevil View Post
    Who cares if they vacate it? We still have recordings to watch of that game (and to show UNC fans the beautiful sight)
    it's the only "television show" on my iPhone. I can watch any part of it on a moment's notice!

    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    The best part of the show is the halftime, when Bobby Knight and Jay Bilas are giving Hubert Davis the business about the multiple cans of whoop-butt that were being opened by Duke.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    half time show not included with itunes edition.....
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    I also bought the game on iTunes and was bummed that they didn't include the halftime show. My favorite part was when Bobby Knight tears up his game notes and says he has no idea what UNC should do. My other favorite part of that night was getting on Inside Carolina and reading their in-game thread as we were ripping them apart.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I know Iím asking for trouble, but Iíve got to ask this question. Having read the UNC scandal thread as well as the Penn State thread. What makes all of you think that something like this couldnít happen at Duke?

    During my lifetime experiences serving 20 years in the Army and now working 19 years for a Fortune 500 corporation, I hold the view that large institutions have a very hard time policing themselves and that they often will look to take the easy way out when trouble rears its ugly head.
    Something like this has happened at Duke. Wikipedia refers to it as the 'Duke Lacrosse Case', but I think 'Scandal' is a more appropriate word.

    As a junior/senior during this time, I can tell you that the Duke Lacrosse Scandal was devastating to the staff, the students, the alumni, the city of Durham, and certainly the athletic department.

    Although innocent, the whole incident left a terrible scar on Duke athletics, which is why I think that a UNC-type case (or, God forbid, a PSU-type case) will not happen at Duke.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I know Iím asking for trouble, but Iíve got to ask this question. Having read the UNC scandal thread as well as the Penn State thread. What makes all of you think that something like this couldnít happen at Duke?

    During my lifetime experiences serving 20 years in the Army and now working 19 years for a Fortune 500 corporation, I hold the view that large institutions have a very hard time policing themselves and that they often will look to take the easy way out when trouble rears its ugly head.
    Not asking for trouble, you've asked a legit question. My answer is this: first, I think it could happen at Duke or any large organization but I also think it's less likely to happen at Duke (for reasons others have already stated). Let's not forget the most important part of this whole thing, however: it DID happen at UNC@CH. It's not a question or hypothetical, they were caught cheating and no matter how many times their fans cover their eyes and ears and chant "I hate D**k", it should be brought to light and they should be punished and I should get to enjoy every second of that!

  9. #69

    Have to Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    Not asking for trouble, you've asked a legit question. My answer is this: first, I think it could happen at Duke or any large organization but I also think it's less likely to happen at Duke (for reasons others have already stated). Let's not forget the most important part of this whole thing, however: it DID happen at UNC@CH. It's not a question or hypothetical, they were caught cheating and no matter how many times their fans cover their eyes and ears and chant "I hate D**k", it should be brought to light and they should be punished and I should get to enjoy every second of that!
    No organization is immune to this type of problem. If it thinks it is, then it will someday have a problem. From a sports perspective, Duke has two things going for it: (1) our two revenue sports coaches clearly have high personal integrity and leadership that they have infused into their programs; (2) most, if not all, of our athletes and recruits see Duke as more than a highway to a pro career. That's not going to catch all problems before they occur, but it's a good start.

    As for some of the other more recent posts on this thread, 82-50 was a glorious night! For Duke fans, for State fans, for Wake fans, and anyone else who wanted to see those guys taken down a peg. Didn't last long - not until Austin Rivers took the shot.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    Not asking for trouble, you've asked a legit question. My answer is this: first, I think it could happen at Duke or any large organization but I also think it's less likely to happen at Duke (for reasons others have already stated). Let's not forget the most important part of this whole thing, however: it DID happen at UNC@CH. It's not a question or hypothetical, they were caught cheating and no matter how many times their fans cover their eyes and ears and chant "I hate D**k", it should be brought to light and they should be punished and I should get to enjoy every second of that!
    As flyingdutchdevil noted above, such a scandal has happened at Duke, barely 6 years ago. It was a 'coyotes guarding the henhouse' sorta thing as it relates to the Penn State case. The coaches weren't the problem in Durham, though.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    I know Iím asking for trouble, but Iíve got to ask this question. Having read the UNC scandal thread as well as the Penn State thread. What makes all of you think that something like this couldnít happen at Duke?

    During my lifetime experiences serving 20 years in the Army and now working 19 years for a Fortune 500 corporation, I hold the view that large institutions have a very hard time policing themselves and that they often will look to take the easy way out when trouble rears its ugly head.
    I have no illusions about the infallibility of people that work for Duke University. But I do think that situations of this scale are less likely to occur at Duke, mainly because Duke will never enjoy the kind of external cocoon that would allow something like this to fester over a number of years. It's a lot harder for an institution to keep its wrongdoing secret when reporting information that paints that institution in an unfavorable light is such good business.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    I have no illusions about the infallibility of people that work for Duke University. But I do think that situations of this scale are less likely to occur at Duke, mainly because Duke will never enjoy the kind of external cocoon that would allow something like this to fester over a number of years. It's a lot harder for an institution to keep its wrongdoing secret when reporting information that paints that institution in an unfavorable light is such good business.
    Seconded. The great thing about the proximity of three rival schools in such a small area is the way that they work as watch dogs for each other, not always with good intent, but the result is the same.

    Was it last summer when Tar Heels were jumping all over Coach K for what was a minor (at most) infraction (if it was even determined to be so...)? Funny how recent trips to IC have yielded *nada* about the current state of affairs in the UNC athletics program. Maybe the yokels over there are in denial that BASKETBALL players were taking these shady classes? Regardless of how this all plays out, I consider this to be a major trump card for future "discussions" with UNC fans about the relative merits of both programs

    God bless those Pack fans sifting through the muck to bring this to light!

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by sircyclops View Post
    Funny how recent trips to IC have yielded *nada* about the current state of affairs in the UNC athletics program. Maybe the yokels over there are in denial that BASKETBALL players were taking these shady classes?
    The Daily Tar Heel has noticed the issue (though bball is not mentioned -- some things are sacred). Here is a link to the most prominent editorial in the current paper entitled "Athletic culture needs change: Athletic success should not come at the expense of academic rigor." http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/.../4ffd8dee4d721

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Newly released emails and documentation detail the tutor (Jennifer Wiley) writing the bulk of some term paper assignments for the players, as well as players receiving improper benefits. One player had a requirement to write a 10 page paper but could only come up with 2.5 pages. Wiley writes in an email that she had "expanded" the paper to 8.5 pages, so he only had "1.5 more pages to go".

    UNC released the redacted documents today after local media outlets had filed public records lawsuits. The reports also show UNC spent about $70K on lawyer fees during the 2010 NCAA investigation.

    NBC-17 News Report
    I don't have the link, but read the N&O version this morning.

    UNC maintains that you can't "prove" from the emails that Jennifer Wiley did more than "re-format" the paper discussed above (although the original version by the athlete was double-spaced).

    The UNC current AD says all students in the AFAM curricula were given assignments and completed those assignments.

    UNC still maintains that the classes were setup for all students.

    The uncovering of the UNC coverup by State fans and by the N&O will be a lot of fun - stay tuned.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    UNC maintains that you can't "prove" from the emails that Jennifer Wiley did more than "re-format" the paper discussed above (although the original version by the athlete was double-spaced).
    "You can do a lot with font." -- J. Wiley

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Easy, the man at the top of the program.
    No way people in State College were saying this about Paterno for the last 30 years.
    WWJDD?

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I stand corrected. A thread on IC about these shenanigans has finally emerged: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=9139039 A lotta "everyone cheats" excusing and pot shots at the academic credentials at State. When you have emeritus faculty claiming that this is the worst case of academic fraud in the university's history then I believe that this goes deeper than a couple of "crip" courses offered to atheletes...

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Do the students that took these classes get to keep their degrees? Does the NCAA adjust their APR calculations?


    Atakwenda motoni Carolina!

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    UNC maintains that you can't "prove" from the emails that Jennifer Wiley did more than "re-format" the paper discussed above (although the original version by the athlete was double-spaced).

    The UNC current AD says all students in the AFAM curricula were given assignments and completed those assignments.

    UNC still maintains that the classes were setup for all students.

    The uncovering of the UNC coverup by State fans and by the N&O will be a lot of fun - stay tuned.
    How can anyone possibly claim those things with a straight face? Did someone edit out all of the sarcastic laughter?
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    it's the only "television show" on my iPhone. I can watch any part of it on a moment's notice!

    For me, it's that game and the 91 & 92 documentary. But what is the halftime show you're talking about? I didn't get to see the game live, owing to the fact that I don't have ESPN.

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