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  1. #781
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio

    Guns and Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    You've confirmed my vague recall about what I thought I heard others say about the course.
    I took "Guns and Boats" since it was a required part of the NROTC program when I was at Duke - in the 1960's. It was neither easy nor quite as rigorous as the engineering courses I was taking. But I did have to work.

    Beyond that, it didn't matter whether it was easy or hard. The university did not count the hours towards my degree requirement. I took it because the Navy required it, but it didn't move me any closer to graduation. That's very different than the current situation at UNC where it appears the course is part of the system that's in place to support eligibility requirements.

  2. #782
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Professor Theodore Ropp was an accomplished military historian who taught an undergraduate course every year. I don't think it was an easy course.

    sagegrouse
    I took that course during my sophomore year. History of Naval Warfare was the title of the course, and it was as strenuous as any History course. Definitely not a easy course. Dr. Ropp was an interesting man. Look him up on Google.

  3. #783
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Leave it to Jay...pretty funny.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  4. #784
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Leave it to Jay...pretty funny.
    mate selection, auburn, 1987

    Wow. I never even imagined receiving college credit for one of the essential goals in a college student's life.

    I wonder how much more focused/productive our thousands of hours of ad hoc laboratory sessions would have been if we followed a course outline?

    On second thought, perhaps it was better for some (cough, cough) that prospective "selectees" were less well-informed of the process.

  5. #785
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    mate selection, auburn, 1987

    Wow. I never even imagined receiving college credit for one of the essential goals in a college student's life.

    I wonder how much more focused/productive our thousands of hours of ad hoc laboratory sessions would have been if we followed a course outline?

    On second thought, perhaps it was better for some (cough, cough) that prospective "selectees" were less well-informed of the process.
    I thought thats what "the stacks" were for. Why else go to Perkins?
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  6. #786
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Leave it to Jay...pretty funny.
    I still think Jay is missing the point on the Nav 302 story. It's not that the course was especially easy; it's that the grading system was dramatically dumbed down for the one section of the course that happened to have a boatload of athletes in it.

  7. #787
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    No doubt Duke is a very tough university, academically speaking, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking there are not classes which, if subjected to scrutiny, would draw enormous amounts of ridicule.

    I know of someone who took Physics 49S for his freshman year seminar. The only assignment for the entire course was a class presentation, with an accompanying ten-page write up. He improvised the whole presentation (on theories of the end of the universe), his only preparation being 8 or so Power Point slides with a couple bullet points on each. His "write up" was 10 pages-worth of Wikipedia articles, in quotation marks, ending with "-- Wikipedia." He had thereby completed the course four weeks in, and for the rest of the semester he simply showed up every day to cruise to an A.

    I kid you not.
    Maybe if I had had Wiki and Power Point back in 1970.

  8. #788
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    “This has all of the ingredients of a major academic violation because it is so systematic over a long period of time. I feel certain that the NCAA is planning on inviting themselves back. They simply can’t let this go.”

    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...#storylink=cpy

    Jay Bilas is missing the point. Fortunately, others are not.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  9. #789
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    “This has all of the ingredients of a major academic violation because it is so systematic over a long period of time. I feel certain that the NCAA is planning on inviting themselves back. They simply can’t let this go.”

    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...#storylink=cpy
    Wow. That may be the most damning article I have read on all this. Here are leading academic advisers and experts across the country demanding that the NCAA take serious action. I just can't see how the NCAA can let this go. And I think they won't. I am betting that they are waiting for the Martin report, which is supposed to come this month, and then they will either bring the hammer down or launch their own investigation.

    -Jason "this will end badly for UNC... many wins are going to be vacated and scholarships are going to be lost... in both football and basketball, I suspect" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  10. #790
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    ... -Jason "this will end badly for UNC... many wins are going to be vacated and scholarships are going to be lost... in both football and basketball, I suspect" Evans
    Seems like "scholarship" fled chapel hell a while ago.

    Looks like we need a new word for that grant at unc formerly known as a "scholarship."

  11. #791

    Guns and Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post
    I took "Guns and Boats" since it was a required part of the NROTC program when I was at Duke - in the 1960's. It was neither easy nor quite as rigorous as the engineering courses I was taking. But I did have to work.

    Beyond that, it didn't matter whether it was easy or hard. The university did not count the hours towards my degree requirement. I took it because the Navy required it, but it didn't move me any closer to graduation. That's very different than the current situation at UNC where it appears the course is part of the system that's in place to support eligibility requirements.
    I was at Duke in the late 1960s and early 1970s and Guns and Boats was indeed regarded as an easy course.

    But it was a legitimate course. You had to attend class and do the work -- and it was real work. The key was the Theodore Ropp, who was a renowned Naval historian, had such a low regarded for undergrads that any show of intelligence surprised him. He was a much tougher grader for his grad students.

    Again, the key point about the UNC naval studies class -- did they grade the section loaded with athletes differently than the sections filled with non-athletes? Being an easy course doesn't put it on the NCAA rader ... being easier for athletes than for non-athletes -- that is (or should be) a major violation.

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Again, the key point about the UNC naval studies class -- did they grade the section loaded with athletes differently than the sections filled with non-athletes? Being an easy course doesn't put it on the NCAA rader ... being easier for athletes than for non-athletes -- that is (or should be) a major violation.
    In one section of NAVS302 (Spring 2007), with 30 out of 38 athletes they used an entirely different syllabus which stated no tests or quizes, a 2 page double spaced mid term paper and a 5 person group presentation for an oral final.

    Here is the grade distribution for these Naval Science Courses, which I think actually highlight the problems here...keep in mind before the 2009 they redid the courses to provide a more appropriate education.

    http://www.unc.edu/news/12/09_12.pdf

    I find it hilarious the athletes that enrolled in NAVS302 after the course was changed. Poor kids didn't know what they were walking into. LOL!

    I would say most of the NAVS courses are probably crib courses these kids were steered into, but the Spring 2007 one is the one that can get Carolina into hot water since a different syllabus was used, the professor talked to Academic Support who in turned pushed 30 kids into that course.

  13. #793
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Augusta/Atlanta

    Look at that professor effect

    GPAs under Newnam: 2.69, 2.38, and (drumroll please) 1.93.

    GPAs under Gramlisch: 3.8, 3.54, 3.85, and 3.84.

    Wow. Definitely should check ratemyprofessor.com before signing up for THAT course
    Trinity '09

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    This probably says more about me than anything else, but I do not recall any of my classes at Duke as being easy.
    I did have one easy class, though it was not easy for everybody most likely. It was a "Business Statistics" class taught by a Professor named Battle in a social science department of some kind. It was easy for me because I had previously taken Probability and Statistics in the Math dept. I took it because I needed an upper level course in social sciences for distributional requirements. The two things I remember about the class are the weird 1st meeting when the professor announced that his goal was for everyone in the class to get an A, and the fact that all tests were open book tests and EVERY problem used a normal distribution, which you didn't have to calculate as there was a table of values in the back of the book.

    BTW - I came back to this thread because I saw this quite entertaining column today:

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...n-run-unc.html

  15. #795
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Nice Q&A from the Raleigh N&O today from the editor:

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...reporting.html
    Not leaving until the game is over.

  16. #796
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Nice Q&A from the Raleigh N&O today from the editor:

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...reporting.html
    Yep, that is about what I would have predicted from the UNC fandom.... Is it possible to sound more childlike than those asking those questions??

    I remember asking question like that when I was about 8 years old. "Mom, I wasn't talking in class, the teacher just doesn't like me". "Mom everyone else was doing it, the teacher just picked on me"....

    Boo hooo hooo!

  17. #797
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Nice Q&A from the Raleigh N&O today from the editor:

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...reporting.html
    Should have added this to my original post. I especially like the editor's quote:

    "I am a graduate of UniversityNonCompliance. But college affiliations are irrelevant to our work. Our reporters and editors set aside their personal histories and work without fear or favor."


    (bold print is mine)
    Not leaving until the game is over.

  18. #798
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs

    Must read!

    More ugly, ugly, ugly allegations of academic fraud.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...ons-haunt.html


    As the spring 2011 semester wound to a close, UNC-Chapel Hill football player Erik Highsmith had nothing to show for the blog students were supposed to contribute to for a communications class, his instructor said. The blog accounted for 30 percent of a student’s grade.

    Highsmith wrote two posts in seven days. The first was about poultry farming, the second about people and pets.

    Very little of either post was in his own words.

    The first entry was virtually identical to a passage on an education website written by four 11-year-olds for their peers. The second mirrored much of an essay someone posted on Urch.com, a website that helps people prepare for the SAT, GRE and other college entry exams.
    Highsmith was never suspended or disciplined at all by the UNC football team. Heck, he played against us last night.

    -Jason "the article contains more incidents and blatant plagiarism involving other players too" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  19. #799
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    More ugly, ugly, ugly allegations of academic fraud.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...ons-haunt.html



    Highsmith was never suspended or disciplined at all by the UNC football team. Heck, he played against us last night.

    -Jason "the article contains more incidents and blatant plagiarism involving other players too" Evans
    It also contains the very telling reactions of UNC...a continuing pattern of denial, refusal, and obstruction. Clearly UNC recognizes the extent of their problem...and their goal is to hide it.

    Martin's "investigation" is also obviously a publicity sham. They don't have time to look into whether or to there was rampant plagiarism? Isn't that the whole point of an investigation into academic misconduct? No, it isn't, not when the point of the investigation is simply to exist so UNC can say it investigated...something.
    Brian Zoubek on what was going through his mind walking to the free throw line with 3.6 seconds remaining in the 2010 National Championship game and Duke up by 1: "Fifty percent [of me is] thinking, This is what I've been dreaming of doing my entire life. Fifty percent I'm crapping my pants."

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    More ugly, ugly, ugly allegations of academic fraud.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/10/...ons-haunt.html
    The first entry was virtually identical to a passage on an education website written by four 11-year-olds for their peers.

    ...

    She did not realize that the blog for the class had been exposed on UNC-CH’s website, where a fan of rival N.C. State University found it, and contacted the N&O. The day after the N&O interviewed her, password protection was added to the site.


    Don't worry...State is keeping the heat on.

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