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  1. #1
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    More info on UNC academic scandal

    Nice to see more info on this. The article makes lot of senses. Things do not add up. Teachers do not spend the time that it would take to teach 60 students one on one for nothing. If this was done correcctly, having taught residents before the amount of time involved would be astronomical if the student was expected to learn or even produce work. The time just to meet with the student, say 60 minutes once a week ... and this just doesn't make any sense at all. Either Nyang’oro is one of the most generious people of all time or something is rotten in Denmark.

    Obviousluy UNC has no vested interest in getting to the truth (hmmmm wonder why). If matching up students to courses taken is difficult for UNC, then they actually have much larger prolems over there than this AFAM studies issues.

    I think if the SBI stays interested in the whole mess we are going to discover a very interesting and perhaps intensive paper mill for athletes at the bottom of this pile of manure.

    I thing the main questions is how interested will the SBI remain in this? This has now become a political affair and you all know how they can turn given the powers to be in the political seats of power.

  2. #2
    Ahem...you may want to spell check your title. Just sayin'.

  3. #3
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    it will get tossed around, raved about and then buried....


    they're not gonna do anything to "the flagship"
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    it will get tossed around, raved about and then buried....


    they're not gonna do anything to "the flagship"
    As much as I dislike the Tar Heels, I have always thought that there are SOME over there that believe in institutional integrity and academic honesty. Surely, there are some voices over there that will want to get to the bottom of this.
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  5. #5
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    By the way, the new article from the N&O that has inspired this conversation can be found here.

    I have a question about these summer school "no show" classes. They appear to be classes where there was no classroom/lecture given nor was there any assigned work other than a term paper. Does that make much sense to all of you? That a student could get full credit for a class by merely writing one term paper. What is the student really learning from that? I suppose the student might be meeting extensively with the professor on the side and talking about the content of the term paper, but it sure seems to me like a sorta lame academic exercise.

    --Jason "I doubt these term papers were of the extreme research variety such as a dissertation" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    By the way, the new article from the N&O that has inspired this conversation can be found here.

    I have a question about these summer school "no show" classes. They appear to be classes where there was no classroom/lecture given nor was there any assigned work other than a term paper. Does that make much sense to all of you? That a student could get full credit for a class by merely writing one term paper. What is the student really learning from that? I suppose the student might be meeting extensively with the professor on the side and talking about the content of the term paper, but it sure seems to me like a sorta lame academic exercise.

    --Jason "I doubt these term papers were of the extreme research variety such as a dissertation" Evans
    More a desertion of standards than a dissertation.

  7. #7

    I'm not sure it was a term paper

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post

    I have a question about these summer school "no show" classes. They appear to be classes where there was no classroom/lecture given nor was there any assigned work other than a term paper. Does that make much sense to all of you? That a student could get full credit for a class by merely writing one term paper. What is the student really learning from that? I suppose the student might be meeting extensively with the professor on the side and talking about the content of the term paper, but it sure seems to me like a sorta lame academic exercise.

    --Jason "I doubt these term papers were of the extreme research variety such as a dissertation" Evans
    Based on the article, I'm not sure they even had to do a paper:

    "University officials say the students were given an assignment, which they were to turn in at the end of the course."

    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/07/...#storylink=cpy

    An assignment could be just about anything, or perhaps just about nothing, much like Jim Harrick Jr.'s class at Georgia:

    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/quiz/_/id/600

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    As much as I dislike the Tar Heels, I have always thought that there are SOME over there that believe in institutional integrity and academic honesty. Surely, there are some voices over there that will want to get to the bottom of this.
    This point - surely someone over there believes in academic integrity - is very important to me, too. Wanting the Heels to Go to Hell in basketball, I don't want this excellent university to become an academic laughingstock. I've posted in a previous thread my hope that some on the faculty would come forth.

    It seems a few have, publicly, for in the N/O article we read that "Willis Brooks and Jay Smith, two UNC-CH history professors ... are concerned about the case’s impact on the university’s academic integrity...." I'll guess more than a few have protested this scam behind the scenes, which is necessary but hardly sufficient. I have no idea exactly what faculty governance bodies have done, but they have to speak publicly, both to condemn the scam and defend other members of the department, several of whom were themselves defrauded [forged signatures, changed grades].

    Another good sign: "Current and former UNC-CH officials say they can’t recall a worse case of academic fraud at the university, considered one of the nation’s top public schools."

    OTOH, others are still blowing smokescreens: "Top leaders at UNC-CH and the UNC system, however, say athletics weren’t at the heart of the academic fraud, because nonathletes were in the suspect classes," This assertion does not pass the laugh test. While I'm certain the vast majority of UNC faculty members know this, I wait for them to speak, firmly and forthrightly.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    ... I wait for them to speak, firmly and forthrightly.
    124645d1340737325-nutella-over-discussion-only-019-waiting-skeleton-bench.jpg

  10. #10

    If there is anything I've learned is this...

    Hi,

    Cover-ups usually end worse for the institution or individual than forthrightness. If there are shenanigans occurring at UNC the basketball department, athletic department, academic institution or any combination thereof they should come forward and tell the truth, take their medicine and move on...because if they don't and it turns into a "cover-up" scandal it will be even worse and potentially make a mountain out of something that could have been corrected with minimal pain.

    As much as I hate the tar heels on the court, I don't want to see UNC-CH brought to its knees because some yahoos thought of a way to get around taking classes and bigger yahoos made it possible. I also think this sort of thing is hurting Duke because people think the ACC is a hot bed for academic cheating. I was told, not that long ago, that the reason Cal-Berkeley can't get good basketball players is that at Cal they learn they have to go to class and at places like Duke (yes they guy said Duke and everyone around--except me--shook their heads in agreement) and others in the ACC academics for athletes is a joke. We all know this is false, but perception can be a strong thing and schools in our conference not living up to a high standard affects us all. By the way, I asked how many people were certain Duke kids weren't going to class and how they knew that was true? Nobody had an answer beyond the usual it is Duke baloney. Furthermore, I wonder if they weren't mixing Duke with Arizona State...those Devils were even involved in point shaving and, er um, are in the Pac 12 with Cal.

    GO DUKE!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kewlswim View Post

    I don't want to see UNC-CH brought to its knees because some yahoos thought of a way to get around taking classes and bigger yahoos made it possible.

    Wouldn't bother me in the slightest Kewl. If they cheated, hang 'em high.
    Duke is subjected to stringent and serious standards, observation and endless criticism. You can bet the farm that if Duke tried to pull the baloney that's going on at the hole in the mound, Duke would be dipped and fried in a strange batter, regardless of what a few whiners at, uh, cal-berkeley might be fantasizing. (And since when does anyone care what they think about sports? What do they play there, Varsity Dungeons and Dragons? Mixed Doubles Simcity?)

    To hell with the hole in the mound.
    Last edited by JBDuke; 07-09-2012 at 09:31 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kewlswim View Post
    Hi,



    I don't want to see UNC-CH brought to its knees because some yahoos thought of a way to get around taking classes and bigger yahoos made it possible.

    GO DUKE!
    i'm not seeing the down side here....
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    i'm not seeing the down side here....
    Me neither.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    Me neither.
    Count me in as well. (BTW, I cannot spell, never could, never will at this point in my life. The only time I care is when it is an important document and I don't consider anything I say on this board as important, but thanks for pointing it out).

    Back to the point. I used to pull for the ACC as a whole, but that was before the whole Duke Hate thing began. I cannot pinpoint the time, but it was late 90's maybe. When it seemed like the ACC turned its back on Duke, then the rest of the country, and for what being successful and NOT cheating.

    Well I hope they find so much cheating and cover-up at UNC that it makes National Headlines and lead stories on the network news.

    This goes against my grain in a way since I am not typically a vengeful type, but I am fed up with UNC and their Holier than Thou "Carolina Way" B.S.

    I am doubtful that much will come of this, UNC has a pretty good choke hold on the power structure in this state, so it may take an outsider to bust it open, like a Sports Illustrated or ESPN, or something equal... but that is doubtful as well given the cash cow UNC is to their companies, but it could happen.

    But as far as caring for their reputation, I don’t, not even one tiny little bit.

    I would love to see something happen that would humble that crowd, but for the life of me I cannot imagine anything that would humble that crowd…. Can anyone?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    I would love to see something happen that would humble that crowd, but for the life of me I cannot imagine anything that would humble that crowd…. Can anyone?
    vacate the 05 and 09....roy fired, thorpe fired, criminal indictments....some folks go to jail and all the wins from the beginning of those bogus courses vacated....football AND basketball.


    might not "humble" them......but i'd say they would give them an H-U to start with....
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    vacate the 05 and 09....roy fired, thorpe fired, criminal indictments....some folks go to jail and all the wins from the beginning of those bogus courses vacated....football AND basketball.


    might not "humble" them......but i'd say they would give them an H-U to start with....

    Vacate the Helms!!! Make them give up a trophy they didn't even win. That would hit 'em where it hurts.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForkFondler View Post
    Vacate the Helms!!! Make them give up a trophy they didn't even win. That would hit 'em where it hurts.
    I just spit coffee on my keyboard. Excellent.
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  18. #18

    Cherchez la femme

    One missing piece seems crucial.
    Those of us who are very familiar with academic departments understand the role of the department administrator, the staff person who works for the chair of the department and handles most all of the day to day operations. In small departments like AAS at UNC, that person will often create the schedules, register the students, certify the courses, obtain the rooms, and so on. That person at UNC has resigned, and the university cannot it seems compel her (given her refusal to speak at all) to give any evidence to their investigators. Only the SBI, with subpoena powers, will ever get an interview with her.

    It may be the case that she liked athletes and wanted her boys to succeed. Or there may be racial issues involved (who were the favored students?) etc. The fact that the chair was not paid for those independent study classes with his name on them suggests there was no financial trail that UNC internal audit could track, and prosecute.

    Cherchez la femme.

  19. #19

    like it or not (definitely not)...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    But as far as caring for their reputation, I don’t, not even one tiny little bit.

    I would love to see something happen that would humble that crowd, but for the life of me I cannot imagine anything that would humble that crowd…. Can anyone?
    Some thoughts from a person with degrees from both schools, who has lived in either Chapel Hill or Durham for over 25 years:

    - Not sure which school's alums would win an arrogance contest, but both would certainly qualify for the national tournament each year. I think both schools have lots to feel proud about, but humility is not a strength at either school.

    - I think the schools are highly reliant on each other as they compete for the top students, faculty and staff across the country. The strength of one helps the other. This is probably least important for student recruitment, but is definitely the case for post-docs, faculty and academic staff who consider collaborative opportunities and the intellectual climate of the area when making choices about their careers. This, of course, has a large indirect impact on the competition for promising students.

    - Durham and Chapel Hill are highly reliant on the strengths of both schools (and the schools benefit from the strengths of the cities). Durham's economic and "hip" growth over the past 10-15 years has definitely been influenced by Duke, but UNC's strength has also helped Durham.

    - In short, like it or not (definitely not), the stength of Duke, UNC, Durham, and Chapel Hill is all tied together. Rooting against UNC and hating the arrogance of their fans is all part of the fun of the rivalry, but I encourage you also to consider that we benefit from their strength (especially regarding academic prowess and integrity).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kewlswim View Post
    As much as I hate the tar heels on the court, I don't want to see UNC-CH brought to its knees because some yahoos thought of a way to get around taking classes and bigger yahoos made it possible. I also think this sort of thing is hurting Duke because people think the ACC is a hot bed for academic cheating.
    I'd love to see UNC@CH brought to it's knees because of this issue. They have been caught cheating....AGAIN. Their fans are annoying and outnumber Duke fans 1000 to 1 in this state. I try not to argue with them anymore but every now and then I slip up and get an earful of rhetoric and myth (not facts) that reminds me how much I enjoy every bad thing that can happen to UNC athletics (outside of serious injuries).

    I think it was on Facebook but it might have been on DBR where I read "Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience". Replace "idiots" with UNC fans and there you go!

    I don't think UNC cheating paints Duke with the same brush at all.

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