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  1. #1
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    Time to get "Cook"-ing

    If you really closely watched Quinn Cook in the UK game, you would realize what a great game he played. In fact, I think he was just as much a factor in our win as Mason was. His stat line wasn't incredible (7 points on 3-5 shooting, 3 assists, 3 rebs, 2 TOs), but you could really see his impact on the game, especially when he had the ball in his hands in transition. He constantly pushed the ball and found guys for open threes, layups, and foul line opportunities. Most importantly, he played 30 minutes, and in my opinion, pretty great defense throughout, against elite competition. Over the entire game, I only saw him get beat once off the dribble by a Kentucky guard off a nice double crossover by Goodwin.

    I think Cook starting the first 2 games off the bench was more of a "your spot is not guaranteed" message from Coach K than a serious switch back to Tyler Thornton. Even Quinn himself admitted how badly he played in the 2 preseason games (9 TOs against the DII guys), and I believe he will start the next game and cement himself as the primary ball handler for this team from this point forward. Coach K is not the type of person who allows complacency to go unnoticed, and he pushes his point guards harder than anyone else on his teams, so I fully expect Quinn to be much improved from here on out.

  2. #2
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    There's been a lot of discussion of this, particularly in the first two post game threads. Basically, you're not alone in your thinking. I really like the way the offense flows when QC has the ball. He pushed the ball well and is making good decisions and good passes. And he's still got lots of room to improve. It's going to be fun watching him play this season.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    There's been a lot of discussion of this, particularly in the first two post game threads. Basically, you're not alone in your thinking. I really like the way the offense flows when QC has the ball. He pushed the ball well and is making good decisions and good passes. And he's still got lots of room to improve. It's going to be fun watching him play this season.
    Eh . . I still feel like he's mostly been flying under the radar, especially outside of the Duke basketball community. For example, I was watching the UK game with some UK fans and I started talking about Quinn and none of them even seemed to know who he was. Then they started going on about how much better either team would be if they/we had someone like Kendall Marshall . . . who, in my eyes, is about the same player Quinn is when Quinn is at his best. I just wish Quinn could have a few more breakout games on par with what he did last year when he broke into the starting lineup before he got ill. Then maybe the people at CBS would pull their heads out of their butts and put him in their top 50 PGs.

  4. #4
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    I was really happy with his performance overall. However, despite his general improvement in this area, he had too many defensive breakdowns, enough that we couldn't finish the game with him. He just seems to space out and let guys go by him occasionally, but mainly struggles defending the pick and roll. He's got to be more focused.

    Hopefully this will be one of those instances where the talented, young backup gets it together by some point around midseason and takes over.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    I was really happy with his performance overall. However, despite his general improvement in this area, he had too many defensive breakdowns, enough that we couldn't finish the game with him. He just seems to space out and let guys go by him occasionally, but mainly struggles defending the pick and roll. He's got to be more focused.

    Hopefully this will be one of those instances where the talented, young backup gets it together by some point around midseason and takes over.
    I agree with your overall thoughts but compared to his defensive breakdowns of last year they are not the same. Quinn is pressuring the ball a lot further out than last year. The occassional misstep and some well set screens (LOL) opened up some driving lanes for the UK gaurds. The only time I saw Quinn look lost was on the backscreen on the ally-oop and I thought that was more of Mason's lack of focus. Mason needed to put a forearm to Goodwin.

    Quick Sidestep: Goodwin looks to be one heck of a scorer. He appeared to be the only one on UK that could create his own shot when he wanted to.

    Another difference from last year is that our defensive rotations are well timed and coordinated. I'll take the occasional misstep with extended defense near halfcourt (without fouling) over how played off offensive players last year.

    But again, I agree that he puts it together around midseason.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    Eh . . I still feel like he's mostly been flying under the radar, especially outside of the Duke basketball community. For example, I was watching the UK game with some UK fans and I started talking about Quinn and none of them even seemed to know who he was. Then they started going on about how much better either team would be if they/we had someone like Kendall Marshall . . . who, in my eyes, is about the same player Quinn is when Quinn is at his best. I just wish Quinn could have a few more breakout games on par with what he did last year when he broke into the starting lineup before he got ill. Then maybe the people at CBS would pull their heads out of their butts and put him in their top 50 PGs.
    Why do other fans' perceptions matter? Why does he need to be on a top 50 list? Heck, I'd rather he did fly under the radar and have people underestimate him. But no coach worth his salt is going to edit out QC when reviewing tape. Teams will work to be prepared for him. So with respect to people whose perceptions really matter, I doubt QC is operating in full stealth mode.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Why do other fans' perceptions matter? Why does he need to be on a top 50 list? Heck, I'd rather he did fly under the radar and have people underestimate him. But no coach worth his salt is going to edit out QC when reviewing tape. Teams will work to be prepared for him. So with respect to people whose perceptions really matter, I doubt QC is operating in full stealth mode.
    It matters because public opinion on a player has a pretty significant effect on his future as a pro basketball player . . . I think Quinn has the potential to play in the NBA someday, although he hasn't consistently shown this capability yet. And if nobody knows about him . . he's not going to show up on any draft boards. If he's not a top 50 PG in the nation, how is going to get taken in a 2 round draft with 60 picks? I mean, I get that he has plenty of time to show what he's capable of, but it's year two and he's healthy now, time to at least prove he's capable of holding down the starting job. Plus, if, as you say, coaches are planning for him already, then that leaves teams less time to account for our other guys.

    I don't care too much what UK fans think of him, but I think he's really good, and I wish people would respect him more and not talk about Kendall Marshall like he's just superior in every way . . that just makes me sick.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Why do other fans' perceptions matter? Why does he need to be on a top 50 list? Heck, I'd rather he did fly under the radar and have people underestimate him. But no coach worth his salt is going to edit out QC when reviewing tape. Teams will work to be prepared for him. So with respect to people whose perceptions really matter, I doubt QC is operating in full stealth mode.
    On the other hand, that might not be such a bad idea. Perhaps in an attempt to hide Quinn, we should suit him up in full-on combat camo, like some Gears of War ---- with night vision goggles and the whole nine yards, while the rest of the team wears our traditional garb. I imagine it would raise plenty of questions and cause utter confusion, potentially even panic, but probably not work.

    I too loved what I saw from Cook with regard to pushing the ball. While he's not Terrell Lowery, Quinn did a wonderful job of forcing tempo and making a concerted effort to find scoring opportunities in transition. There were a couple of really beautiful plays where Quinn darted toward the basket on the break and performed what I like to call the Chris Duhon mid-air twirl for a dump pass to a trailing Mason Plumlee. The sped up pace gave our offense a different dimension that it greatly lacked last year and opened things up for our shooters who took advantage of the collapsing defense rushing to stop Quinn in transition by spotting up and knocking down shots on perimeter. Quinn certainly demonstrated the skill that led to him averaging double-digit assists at Oak Hill. He is a very heady passer.

    While he's not ready quite yet to take command of the team -- there are still major mental lapses at times that lead to baffling turnovers and the defense, while improved, needs more time -- Quinn looked very good at times against Kentucky. Impressively so. Well done, kid. Keep at it.

  9. #9
    I love QC and I think he is crucial to this team's success ... but at this point in his career I don't think he is anywhere near where Kendall Marshall was at this point in the season last year. IMO, Marshall was one of the best point guards this league has seen in a long long time. I hope QC gets there, but I haven't even seen flashes from him that show the court vision and general understanding of the game that Marshall had.

    *note, this references offense only. Marshall's benefit was as an offensive player, so if you compare QC to Marshall I think we have to compare their offensive games.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    It matters because public opinion on a player has a pretty significant effect on his future as a pro basketball player . . . I think Quinn has the potential to play in the NBA someday, although he hasn't consistently shown this capability yet. And if nobody knows about him . . he's not going to show up on any draft boards. If he's not a top 50 PG in the nation, how is going to get taken in a 2 round draft with 60 picks? I mean, I get that he has plenty of time to show what he's capable of, but it's year two and he's healthy now, time to at least prove he's capable of holding down the starting job. Plus, if, as you say, coaches are planning for him already, then that leaves teams less time to account for our other guys.

    I don't care too much what UK fans think of him, but I think he's really good, and I wish people would respect him more and not talk about Kendall Marshall like he's just superior in every way . . that just makes me sick.
    I'd bet that if Quinn does show the talent necessary to put him near the top of the draft boards (which would have to be something truly exceptional considering his size disadvantage), then he will almost certainly garner the recognition necessary to do so. In that situation, I don't think anyone is going to say, "Well, he didn't have that name recognition yet in November 2012, so we can't draft him."

    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    I love QC and I think he is crucial to this team's success ... but at this point in his career I don't think he is anywhere near where Kendall Marshall was at this point in the season last year. IMO, Marshall was one of the best point guards this league has seen in a long long time. I hope QC gets there, but I haven't even seen flashes from him that show the court vision and general understanding of the game that Marshall had.

    *note, this references offense only. Marshall's benefit was as an offensive player, so if you compare QC to Marshall I think we have to compare their offensive games.
    I'd actually restrict this even further, to simply saying he was one of the best passers the ACC has seen in a long time. Granted, this is obviously a very big part of being a point guard, and his scoring certainly started to come along towards the end of last season, but the ACC has seen some very good all-around point guards over the last decade -- and while Marshall could probably keep up with them, he doesn't exactly blow them out of the water.

  11. #11
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    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    It matters because public opinion on a player has a pretty significant effect on his future as a pro basketball player . . . I think Quinn has the potential to play in the NBA someday, although he hasn't consistently shown this capability yet. And if nobody knows about him . . he's not going to show up on any draft boards. If he's not a top 50 PG in the nation, how is going to get taken in a 2 round draft with 60 picks?
    This is really far away from mattering for Quinn. If he's indeed worthy of playing in the NBA, then he'll have no problem demonstrating it on the court, and the issue of lack of recognition will take care of itself. Right now, he shouldn't be thinking too much about the draft because he's not even close to ready, and he's two games into his sophomore season! Furthermore, if he were devoting a significant amount of energy to thinking about the NBA, this board would be in full hand-wringing mode for an entirely different reason. I really fail to see how Quinn's current lack of national recognition has much of a bearing on his potential as a player, in college or the pros.

  12. #12
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    Jan 2009
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    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Has there ever been a case since coach K has been coaching that a worthy player of his did not make the NBA because fans didn't recognize his talent or CBS or some other company did not put this worthy player on a pre-season list of best players?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    If you really closely watched Quinn Cook in the UK game, you would realize what a great game he played. In fact, I think he was just as much a factor in our win as Mason was. His stat line wasn't incredible (7 points on 3-5 shooting, 3 assists, 3 rebs, 2 TOs), but you could really see his impact on the game, especially when he had the ball in his hands in transition. He constantly pushed the ball and found guys for open threes, layups, and foul line opportunities. Most importantly, he played 30 minutes, and in my opinion, pretty great defense throughout, against elite competition. Over the entire game, I only saw him get beat once off the dribble by a Kentucky guard off a nice double crossover by Goodwin.

    I think Cook starting the first 2 games off the bench was more of a "your spot is not guaranteed" message from Coach K than a serious switch back to Tyler Thornton. Even Quinn himself admitted how badly he played in the 2 preseason games (9 TOs against the DII guys), and I believe he will start the next game and cement himself as the primary ball handler for this team from this point forward. Coach K is not the type of person who allows complacency to go unnoticed, and he pushes his point guards harder than anyone else on his teams, so I fully expect Quinn to be much improved from here on out.
    I watched the game again last night. DVR is a beautiful thing! I got so excited watching him push the ball up the court. We have our point guard ladies and gentlemen!

  14. #14
    I think that in order to get that kind of recognition the OP is looking for, will be up to Quinn and only him.
    He has the talent to be special but will have to prove it on the court.
    From what I have seen of him it will come soon and his D has gotten better from last year too.

  15. #15
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    Oct 2007
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    Atlanta, GA

    Second Half Starter

    I am surprised that noone had mentioned in this thread yet that Quinn started the second half of the Kentucky game. It seems like Coach K goes with the first half starters to start the second half about 99% of the time. In fact, the only times I remember him not starting the first half starters in the second half was in the 2001 title game where Boozer started the second half over Casey Sanders, and in the 2005 Wake game, when I believe the regular starters started the second half in lieu of Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson, and Reggie Love.

    Anyway, I'm sure there are more examples than that, but I believe it is a big vote of confidence from Coach K to put Quinn in to start the second half.

  16. #16
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    Feb 2007
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    North Country, New York State

    Quinn and Mason

    My thought is for Mason to be a top 20 draft pick, Quinn needs to play starter's minutes - no matter what his defense looks like. Can Duke win without Mason playing to that level? Sure, but cutting down nets is a differnet proposition.

    BlueTeuf

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    I am surprised that noone had mentioned in this thread yet that Quinn started the second half of the Kentucky game. It seems like Coach K goes with the first half starters to start the second half about 99% of the time. In fact, the only times I remember him not starting the first half starters in the second half was in the 2001 title game where Boozer started the second half over Casey Sanders, and in the 2005 Wake game, when I believe the regular starters started the second half in lieu of Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson, and Reggie Love.

    Anyway, I'm sure there are more examples than that, but I believe it is a big vote of confidence from Coach K to put Quinn in to start the second half.
    One other memorable example was when Brian Zoubek started the second half of the first UNC game in 2010 -- that was the game before he was named a starter against Maryland and began his magical run to the national championship.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    I love QC and I think he is crucial to this team's success ... but at this point in his career I don't think he is anywhere near where Kendall Marshall was at this point in the season last year. IMO, Marshall was one of the best point guards this league has seen in a long long time. I hope QC gets there, but I haven't even seen flashes from him that show the court vision and general understanding of the game that Marshall had.

    *note, this references offense only. Marshall's benefit was as an offensive player, so if you compare QC to Marshall I think we have to compare their offensive games.
    I don't want to sound like I'm a typical Duke fan who dumps on every UNC player. I also would like to say, as a disclaimer, that Marshall was incredible for UNC and one of my favorite UNC players to watch (not that the list is all that long, haha). However, Marshall was a bit overrated as an offensive orchestrator, in my opinion, especially in the half court. In transition his ability to make the right pass, whether it be a hit ahead pass or a nifty dish to Zeller or Henson running the floor. He was also good at getting the ball into the post quickly before the defense could completely set up. However, in the half court, he was a little bit more limited. He still was crafty enough to break down defenses from time to time and his size and vision allowed him to make some other good passes. Over all, though, his inconsistent shot, inability to finish around the rim, low free throw shooting percentages, and low rebounding totals reduced his overall efficiency, quite a bit. For some perspective, UNC's Marshall-led offense ranked only 16th in KenPom's adjusted efficiency rankings. In comparison, Duke's offense (which started tanking after Kelly's injury) still finished at 11th.

    His assist rating was completely off the charts, obviously, but that was really his only contribution on the offensive end. Even with his low turnover totals, he still only amassed an efficiency rating of 113.6 pts per 100 possessions. That is very solid, but not at all spectacular. Quinn Cook is currently matching that number right now during this season, although with a slightly lower usage rate. There is no doubt that Kendall Marshall is one of the best passers college basketball has ever seen. But he really was a specialist. We can obviously debate the value of assists (they are valuable, but often overhyped, in my opinion), but as amazing as his passing was, his mediocrity in almost every other conceivable category prevents him from moving into the pantheon of "best point guards, ever." Personally, I think UNC will be able to fill Marshall's shoes with Paige easier than many think. It is the efficiency of Zeller that will be much harder for them to replace.

    And as this pertains to Quinn Cook, I think we have to be careful not to look at assists as the primary measure for how Quinn Cook is doing as a point guard. While I think he will have some impressive totals when it is all said and done, the Duke offense is set up far differently than the UNC offense was last season. Marshall was the ONLY creator on the team (well, Barnes created for himself, but you get my point). Ryan, Mason, Seth, Rasheed, and even Tyler are put in positions to create offense on any given offensive set. Quinn is doing his job if the ball is moving, the spacing is right, and he's getting the ball to guys in their preferred locations. So far, Quinn has done a very good (perhaps not yet excellent) job of that. Quinn is also hitting his open shots so far, which in many ways is even more important than racking up a lot of assists. The assists will come for Quinn, but they shouldn't be the primary measure by which we determine how well Quinn is doing.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    I don't want to sound like I'm a typical Duke fan who dumps on every UNC player. I also would like to say, as a disclaimer, that Marshall was incredible for UNC and one of my favorite UNC players to watch (not that the list is all that long, haha). However, Marshall was a bit overrated as an offensive orchestrator, in my opinion, especially in the half court. In transition his ability to make the right pass, whether it be a hit ahead pass or a nifty dish to Zeller or Henson running the floor. He was also good at getting the ball into the post quickly before the defense could completely set up. However, in the half court, he was a little bit more limited. He still was crafty enough to break down defenses from time to time and his size and vision allowed him to make some other good passes. Over all, though, his inconsistent shot, inability to finish around the rim, low free throw shooting percentages, and low rebounding totals reduced his overall efficiency, quite a bit. For some perspective, UNC's Marshall-led offense ranked only 16th in KenPom's adjusted efficiency rankings. In comparison, Duke's offense (which started tanking after Kelly's injury) still finished at 11th.

    His assist rating was completely off the charts, obviously, but that was really his only contribution on the offensive end. Even with his low turnover totals, he still only amassed an efficiency rating of 113.6 pts per 100 possessions. That is very solid, but not at all spectacular. Quinn Cook is currently matching that number right now during this season, although with a slightly lower usage rate. There is no doubt that Kendall Marshall is one of the best passers college basketball has ever seen. But he really was a specialist. We can obviously debate the value of assists (they are valuable, but often overhyped, in my opinion), but as amazing as his passing was, his mediocrity in almost every other conceivable category prevents him from moving into the pantheon of "best point guards, ever." Personally, I think UNC will be able to fill Marshall's shoes with Paige easier than many think. It is the efficiency of Zeller that will be much harder for them to replace.

    And as this pertains to Quinn Cook, I think we have to be careful not to look at assists as the primary measure for how Quinn Cook is doing as a point guard. While I think he will have some impressive totals when it is all said and done, the Duke offense is set up far differently than the UNC offense was last season. Marshall was the ONLY creator on the team (well, Barnes created for himself, but you get my point). Ryan, Mason, Seth, Rasheed, and even Tyler are put in positions to create offense on any given offensive set. Quinn is doing his job if the ball is moving, the spacing is right, and he's getting the ball to guys in their preferred locations. So far, Quinn has done a very good (perhaps not yet excellent) job of that. Quinn is also hitting his open shots so far, which in many ways is even more important than racking up a lot of assists. The assists will come for Quinn, but they shouldn't be the primary measure by which we determine how well Quinn is doing.
    And I don't want to sound like a UNC fan (I most certainly am NOT one), but I feel compelled to provide the counterarguments. Marshall is one of the best passing PG ever. The offense with Marshall may have been 16th in efficiency (I assume that includes the games Marshall didn't play), but notice the marked dropoff when he went out. The reality is that the UNC team had some decent shooters and a couple of athletes, but was actually very limited offensively. Marshall almost singlehandedly made Harrison Barnes into an elite scorer (check out Barnes' numbers with and without Marshall starting at PG - it's pretty drastic). He made that offense work, both in transition and in the half court. Without him, UNC just couldn't create anything in the half court. At least with him, they were pretty competent in the half court.

    Don't get me wrong: Marshall has his share of warts (defense, athleticism, inability to score consistently). But I think you're underselling just how good a college PG he was. Cook is more athletic and more of a scorer, but it very much remains to be seen if he can do enough to offset Marshall's big edge in court awareness and passing ability.

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