Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28
  1. #1

    Harvard gets first Ivy League top 100 player.

    Not sure if this had been posted. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...wan/index.html

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Excellent!

    Quote Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post
    First I've seen it. Sounds like an impressive young man. Best of luck to him (and his college coach).

  3. #3
    So Harvard has a basketball mill/prep school it sends non-ivy league qualifiers to... Only 3 more horse men to go.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    No Big Deal

    In the 1960's, when Sport Magazine was the word on thes subjects in a pre-season issue, the Ivies were filled with many top 50 rated recruits, beginning, of course, with Bill Bradley. Princeton also had Geoff Petri, Gary Walters, the Hummer brothers, Columbia, Grant's old man (don't think he played basketball though) and Brian Dowling, Columia (Stanley something and Neil Farber, real strong backcourt, followed by Jim McMillian, another black dude who I think had a cup of coffee, and Shorty Newmark, Cornell, about a bunch--Greg Morris (first black All Ivy), Hank South 6'5' strong, fast, highly skilled inside and outside player who could put it on the floor and shoot off catch and standstill and, like Greg would have been star anywhere, Walt Esdale, 6'7" 265 lb Center from famed Hillhouse in Conn. with soft hands, great rebounder, defnder, lefty and righty hook, brought it up on the press and would have started anywhere, or nearly so; Steve Cram (brilliant Center, money lefty and righty hooks, put it on ground, Bob DeLuca (think Verga), and Bob Derube, core of Cornell's best recruiting class, Blaine Austin (a blurr who no one could stay in front of and killer outside shot), and Dave Bliss (infamous coach/ deciple of Knight's who coached K at Army and with K at Indiana). Cornell also had the Reynolds brothers, one class of 6'5" forward and the other a 6'4" guard who were rated very high and played up to their reps as freshman and went on to other (ahem forms of recreation, it was the 60's) or Cornell might well have won several Ivy league Championships in the mid-1960s) Penn went to the final four under a class recruited by Dailey consisting of center/forward (Littlepage) who I think is still the AD at Virginia, a 6'9' forward who was as tough as nails and seemed a sure pro (I seem to recall that his name was Calhoun), and a backcourt consisting of one guy who was AD at GWU and another (Ross, I think)who played in the NBA and has been an assistant on a number of NBA teams since. Harvard had a 5'8" guard, Glenn Fine, who got pro tryout, took Rhodes scholarship instead and became Inspector General for the Justice Department, and James Brown, a high school All American who has all those prominent NFL shows on the tube.

    So, Harvard's "accomplishment" is in reality unexceptionable.

    That's just

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    So, Harvard's "accomplishment" is in reality unexceptionable.
    You might want to open the blinds. The world has changed in the past few decades.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by anon View Post
    You might want to open the blinds. The world has changed in the past few decades.
    Exactly, comparing what happened in college basketball 50 years ago with what is going on today is... well not really relevant is it. I think it says a lot about Tommy and what he is doing at Harvard. Keep it up old friend!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by subzero02 View Post
    So Harvard has a basketball mill/prep school it sends non-ivy league qualifiers to... Only 3 more horse men to go.
    Well, this horseman headed for the apocalypse a long time ago. When I was in college in the late 60's/early 70's (shortly before the dawn of time) I had some friends who were Harvard hockey players. Several of them had taken p-g years in prep school before enrolling at Harvard so they would be academically ready.

    As others have pointed out in commenting on another post in this thread, since then NCAA D1 athletics have gone one way and the Ivy League has gone another. But I'm sure there are still at least occasional Ivy athletes taking an extra prep year before coming to college. For that matter, it's apparently non uncommon for non-athletes to do PG years as well. A few years ago a Wall Street Journal reporter (name escapes me right now) wrote a book about elite college admissions; he described Harvard's practice of telling some applicants (often children of very wealthy folks--big actual or potential donors) that they would be admitted after an extra year of preparatory work, rather than immediately.

  8. #8
    It is not uncommon for athletes not so academically accomplished as this kid to take a post-grad year, also. Oak Hill takes a few of them, as I recall.

    I root for Harvard basketball because of Amaker, and because I like to see smart kids win. It is hard for me to do because I went to college at that other ivy from which Duke borrowed (and then subtly changed) its school colors.

  9. #9

    Duke Does It, Too

    This year, the Duke men's lax program will welcome Myles Jones, a 2011 Under Armour All-American from Walt Whitman HS on Long Island who took a PG year at the Salisbury School.

    Also worth noting that Northfield-Mount Hermon sends lots of its graduates to Harvard. It isn't anything like Oak Hill or Hargrave.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs
    A year ago Rivals had Harvard recruit Wesley Saunders as the #80 player in the class of 2011. He was easily the most highly touted recruit to hit the Ivy in quite some time. Of course, recruiting rankings and on court success are two wholly different things. Saunders played in all 30 of Harvard's games and averaged 13 minutes per game, scoring 3 points per game. He was just a freshman, and I imagine they expect bigger things from him going forward, but it is not like he came in an instantly dominated the league.

    -Jason "Tommy's recruiting has been off the charts for an Ivy -- making a good case for himself as Coach K's future replacement" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by anon View Post
    You might want to open the blinds. The world has changed in the past few decades.
    Guess I'll have to:

    Princeton Bill Bradly drafted first, averaged 12.4 during his 10 seasons with Knicks, started on two Championsip terams,either of which I would have loved see play the Heat, especially the one with Pearl and Clyde in the backcourt and Jerry Lucas backing up Willis (there were two First team All American's on the bench behind Bradley who had outstanding careers with the Knicks); Geoff Petrie, Rookie of the Year avering 24.2, 2X AllStar until blew out knee; Brian Tayler, 8 year NBA career at 14 per game, 2 ABA championships with Nets and the good Doctor and McGuiness (I'd like to see that team play the Heat)

    Columbia: Jim McMillian 13 year career, starter, scoring 18 per game for 1972 Laker Championship with Wilt and West (I definitely would like to see that team play the Heat); Shorty Newmark 3 years in NBA, Heyward Dotson, scored 1000 points in being named best in the NYC, 1000 points in college (3 years), drated by NBA and ABA, took a Rhodes instead;

    Penn: from team that twice went deep into the tournament, losing in the semi finals to Magic's Mich St the first time, and making the final 8 the next, Corky Calhoun, a total and complete beast, drafted no 4, 9 years in NBA; Dave Wohl 7 years in NBA, head coach of Nets, 2 years, lengthy career as NBA assistant; Steve Bilsky, runner up for Naismith, terrific career as college AD; Craig Littlepage, terrific career as college coach and executive (definitely would like to see them play any number of teaams in the NBA, but not the Heat;

    Dartmouth: Rudy Tomjanovich;

    Harvard Linn

    Yale Chris Dudley 15 years

    Cornell 1963-67: beat Ohio State in Columbus, Kentucky, the year after the Texas Western game, in Lexington by 35, Cornell's first team All Ivy guard, 6 foot Greg Morris' (the highest vertical you've ever seen) dropping 37 on Pat Riley's head with Cornell winning by 35.

    During my three years at Cornell, the following players, in my opinion, could have started or played significant minutes on any number of ACC teams since shortly before the K era began: Greg Morris, Walt Esdale, and Hank South (all would have started for many ACC teams nearly every year during that era, some for Duke a few of the last 10 seasons); Bob DeLuka, Dave Bliss, Steve Crama Blain Aston would have played significant minutes on most ACC teams, occasionally starting for one team or another in some years.

    The blinds are opened, no?
    Last edited by greybeard; 07-09-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Guess I'll have to:

    Princeton Bill Bradly drafted first, averaged 12.4 during his 10 seasons with Knicks, started on two Championsip terams,either of which I would have loved see play the Heat, especially the one with Pearl and Clyde in the backcourt and Jerry Lucas backing up Willis (there were two First team All American's on the bench behind Bradley who had outstanding careers with the Knicks); Geoff Petrie, Rookie of the Year avering 24.2, 2X AllStar until blew out knee; Brian Tayler, 8 year NBA career at 14 per game, 2 ABA championships with Nets and the good Doctor and McGuiness (I'd like to see that team play the Heat)

    Columbia: Jim McMillian 13 year career, starter, scoring 18 per game for 1972 Laker Championship with Wilt and West (I definitely would like to see that team play the Heat); Shorty Newmark 3 years in NBA, Heyward Dotson, scored 1000 points in being named best in the NYC, 1000 points in college (3 years), drated by NBA and ABA, took a Rhodes instead;

    Penn: from team that twice went deep into the tournament, losing in the semi finals to Magic's Mich St the first time, and making the final 8 the next, Corky Calhoun, a total and complete beast, drafted no 4, 9 years in NBA; Dave Wohl 7 years in NBA, head coach of Nets, 2 years, lengthy career as NBA assistant; Steve Bilsky, runner up for Naismith, terrific career as college AD; Craig Littlepage, terrific career as college coach and executive (definitely would like to see them play any number of teaams in the NBA, but not the Heat;

    Dartmouth: Rudy Tomjanovich;

    Harvard Linn

    Yale Chris Dudley 15 years

    Cornell 1963-67: beat Ohio State in Columbus, Kentucky, the year after the Texas Western game, in Lexington by 35, Cornell's first team All Ivy guard, 6 foot Greg Morris' (the highest vertical you've ever seen) dropping 37 on Pat Riley's head with Cornell winning by 35.

    During my three years at Cornell, the following players, in my opinion, could have started or played significant minutes on any number of ACC teams since shortly before the K era began: Greg Morris, Walt Esdale, and Hank South (all would have started for many ACC teams nearly every year during that era, some for Duke a few of the last 10 seasons); Bob DeLuka, Dave Bliss, Steve Crama Blain Aston would have played significant minutes on most ACC teams, occasionally starting for one team or another in some years.

    The blinds are opened, no?
    So, I'm 31 years old. Only 2 of the people you mentioned above were recruits after I was born, and one of those guys committed to college when I was 2 (give or take). Much of what you're describing above is from ~50 years ago. No one is saying that the Ivy League doesn't have a rich basketball history. What people are saying (accurately) is that the Ivy League, as a general matter, hasn't been recruiting top 100 talent for as long as I've been alive - I'm not saying I'm old, but that's a long time. Your argument is akin to saying that a trip by Duke football to a BCS bowl game would be nothing remarkable since it was a Rose Bowl participant in the '40s.

    Also, not for nothing, but you're confusing your Penn teams. Penn's lone final four appearance was in 1979. Calhoun, Wohl, and Littlepage played in the early 70s (while Magic was in elementary school).
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

    So, Harvard's "accomplishment" is in reality unexceptionable.

    That's just
    hyperbole on your part? I agree.

    1960s college basketball is not to be compared with modern college basketball. What happened in the 1960s does not make what is happening now "unexceptional" because things changed rather significantly and uniformly in the Ivy League--in football and basketball, notably. Or rather, there was no continuity of such things as you described at length.

    Tommy Amaker has brought change to Harvard, despite the inertia of Ivy League basketball he had to push through. That's exceptional. Bill Bradley, I suspect, would agree.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    So, I'm 31 years old. Only 2 of the people you mentioned above were recruits after I was born, and one of those guys committed to college when I was 2 (give or take). Much of what you're describing above is from ~50 years ago. No one is saying that the Ivy League doesn't have a rich basketball history. What people are saying (accurately) is that the Ivy League, as a general matter, hasn't been recruiting top 100 talent for as long as I've been alive - I'm not saying I'm old, but that's a long time. Your argument is akin to saying that a trip by Duke football to a BCS bowl game would be nothing remarkable since it was a Rose Bowl participant in the '40s.

    Also, not for nothing, but you're confusing your Penn teams. Penn's lone final four appearance was in 1979. Calhoun, Wohl, and Littlepage played in the early 70s (while Magic was in elementary school).
    All the players mentioned would have played on big time programs in the NCAA, and many would have made the NBA, some would have been quite good today. If the game has changed so much, the Laker team that McMillian played for and scored 18 per game is one of the gratest in history. they were lead by Jerry West and Wilot, they won 33 in a row, 69 during a much shorter season, and would have killed the Heat. Bradley's championsip teams also. The first had starters, in addition to Bradley, Willis Reed (better by far than any big on the Heat, Debushure who would have defended LeBron better than anyone in the NBA today, shot the three ball terrifically and went to the basket from distance andran the break better thaan any big forward the Heat had, and most in the NBA today, Fraiser, who out played Jerry West (scored 40 in the Championship game, many off of steals from West, was a defender without peer in the NBA today and woud at least have been at least a wash against Wade, "Score" Barnet who would have killed the second guard for the Heat, Bradley who was so slick moving without the ball and scoring it, creating space by strategic moves without the ball, a killer three shooter in today's game, and a guy who would have scored between 16 and 18 points per game if the Knicks hadn't have the best passing game and so many great scorers (in addition to the starters, they had two small forwardsteams in Russell and Dave Stallworth who would have killed anybody coming off the bench for the Heat, Phil Jackson as a backup power forward, ditto to anyone the Heat could have played against the Heat, Dean Meminger backup guard (think the starting other Heat guard here, and a 7 fooot back up Center who was way better than anyone the Heat would have put up also. The next championship team, add Earl Monroe (read a bit). Petre would have started for just about every NBA tean today, if not all; McMillain, Bradley, and Rudy, or perhaps more would have started or been many major contribors in the NBA and stars in the NCCA, and all of the others would have either starred or been significant playersin the current NCAA. Ask the "old" guys on this board.

  15. #15

    the ivies

    I think the contention in this threat is somewhat due to the title: "Harvard Gets First Ivy League top 100 player."

    Like Greybeard, I did a double-take at that claim and prepared to respond with several of the examples he cited.

    But to be fair, the linked story only says that Harvard landed the first "Scout top 100" since Scout starting ranking recruits. Not sure how long that's been -- but the RSCI goes back to 1998 and doesn't include any Ivy top 100 players.

    In that context, Harvard's recent commitment is significant ... although as Jason points out, Harvard signed a top 100 plaer in 2011, according to Rivals. No matter -- we can agree that Tommy has done a tremendous job at Harvard. The recruiting is nice, but the back to back Ivy ttles (the 2011 one shared) are even more impressive.

    PS Greybeard ... just one small correction. Rudy Tomjanovich played for Michigan, not Dartmouth. I was lucky enough to make the try to Ann Arbor on Dec. 10, 1970 when Randy Denton (27 pts, 12 rebounds) overpoerwed Tomjanovich (20 points 10 rebounds) and led Duke to a victoru over the Wolverines.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    All the players mentioned would have played on big time programs in the NCAA, and many would have made the NBA, some would have been quite good today. If the game has changed so much, the Laker team that McMillian played for and scored 18 per game is one of the gratest in history. they were lead by Jerry West and Wilot, they won 33 in a row, 69 during a much shorter season, and would have killed the Heat. Bradley's championsip teams also. The first had starters, in addition to Bradley, Willis Reed (better by far than any big on the Heat, Debushure who would have defended LeBron better than anyone in the NBA today, shot the three ball terrifically and went to the basket from distance andran the break better thaan any big forward the Heat had, and most in the NBA today, Fraiser, who out played Jerry West (scored 40 in the Championship game, many off of steals from West, was a defender without peer in the NBA today and woud at least have been at least a wash against Wade, "Score" Barnet who would have killed the second guard for the Heat, Bradley who was so slick moving without the ball and scoring it, creating space by strategic moves without the ball, a killer three shooter in today's game, and a guy who would have scored between 16 and 18 points per game if the Knicks hadn't have the best passing game and so many great scorers (in addition to the starters, they had two small forwardsteams in Russell and Dave Stallworth who would have killed anybody coming off the bench for the Heat, Phil Jackson as a backup power forward, ditto to anyone the Heat could have played against the Heat, Dean Meminger backup guard (think the starting other Heat guard here, and a 7 fooot back up Center who was way better than anyone the Heat would have put up also. The next championship team, add Earl Monroe (read a bit). Petre would have started for just about every NBA tean today, if not all; McMillain, Bradley, and Rudy, or perhaps more would have started or been many major contribors in the NBA and stars in the NCCA, and all of the others would have either starred or been significant playersin the current NCAA. Ask the "old" guys on this board.
    Interesting history. And all completely, 100% beside the point.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by subzero02 View Post
    So Harvard has a basketball mill/prep school it sends non-ivy league qualifiers to... Only 3 more horse men to go.
    Not to worry. I went to Harvard-Westlake, and there's absolutely no way that he would in any sense have been simply "passed through" -- it was a real, serious, high school and did not make exceptions just because someone was an athlete.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    Interesting history. And all completely, 100% beside the point.
    Beside the point? You apparently think that the game has changed for the better and no Ivy League player from the past would have starred in the NCAA. I'm here to tell you that you and the others who share your perspective are dead wrongare deed wrong. Just about all of the players I have named would have been stars on the great programs of the modern era and all would have been stars on great teams of lesser reputation. You name those whom you think wouldn't. By the way, somehow Cornell went deep into the NCAA's just a few years ago, real deep. Their coach was the equal of the elite in the college game. Too bad he left for the big dough.

    I don't know what is so special about a top 100 as rated by some rating organization. Duke in the last couple of years got smashed in the tournament by a bunch of no names.And, had the stars that I have mentioned did not have the benefit of all the athletic training of current players. You believe that I am wrong. I saw both eras, you haven't. Not much more to say, although I could. I could pick out some of the great stars of the modern era and explain why many I have named would be better than and why in detail. What would be the point.
    Last edited by greybeard; 07-10-2012 at 08:20 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Beside the point? You apparently think that the game has changed for the better and no Ivy League player from the past would have starred in the NCAA. I'm here to tell you that you and the others who share your perspective are dead wrongare deed wrong. Just about all of the players I have named would have been stars on the great programs of the modern era and all would have been stars on great teams of lesser reputation. You name those whom you think wouldn't. By the way, somehow Cornell went deep into the NCAA's just a few years ago, real deep. Their coach was the equal of the elite in the college game. Too bad he left for the big dough.

    I don't know what is so special about a top 100 as rated by some rating organization. Duke in the last couple of years got smashed in the tournament by a bunch of no names.And, had the stars that I have mentioned did not have the benefit of all the athletic training of current players. You believe that I am wrong. I saw both eras, you haven't. Not much more to say, although I could. I could pick out some of the great stars of the modern era and explain why many I have named would be better than and why in detail. What would be the point.
    We're talking past each other and you're putting words in my mouth that I haven't said. Very specifically, I have never said that no Ivy League player from the past would have starred in the NCAA - that would be a silly thing to say, since many in fact did star in the NCAA. But they are from the distant past. Recently - and I use that term loosely to mean the last 40 years - the Ivy League has not had anywhere near the level of talent it had in the 50s and 60s, and certainly the relative level of talent in the Ivies as compared to the rest of the NCAA has generally been decreasing over time. The thing I am saying is very specific - Tommy Amaker's recruiting over the past two seasons is bringing better talent to an Ivy League team than has been seen at any time in at least the past two decades, if not longer. You seem to think that's unremarkable. I disagree.

    Recruiting top 100 talent is certainly not the same thing as producing successful teams (*cough* Matt Doherty *cough*). Bringing in one or two top 100 recruits may not immediately change the program's future. But it's something that no other Ivy League team has done for a long time, and doing so is an accomplishment that merits attention and recognition.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Not to worry. I went to Harvard-Westlake, and there's absolutely no way that he would in any sense have been simply "passed through" -- it was a real, serious, high school and did not make exceptions just because someone was an athlete.
    I think that somewhat snide reference was to Northfield-Mount Hermon, not to H-W. Either way, it was off base. I'm not sure H-W is tougher than St. Margaret's or Sage Hill (OC representin' here), but it's a damn good school. I went to law school with some H-W grads, and they could kick you-know-what in the classroom.

Similar Threads

  1. Big day for Tommy and Harvard
    By SoCalDukeFan in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-01-2013, 10:01 PM
  2. Harvard clinches
    By moonpie23 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-06-2012, 11:40 PM
  3. Harvard Predicted to Win Ivy League
    By hurleyfor3 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-31-2011, 10:57 AM
  4. Amaker at Harvard
    By timmy c in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 03-14-2011, 02:14 AM
  5. Harvard
    By BlueHeaven in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-09-2009, 03:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •