Best Duke backcourt?

[Edouble]

Dunleavy played small forward in 2001 and power forward in 2002. So, that's a pretty broad definition of backcourt.

Really? I wrote, if I could choose any two guys for my backcourt, that's who I would choose. I am not sure how to more effectively communicate my meaning. If I had my choice of any two guys from any one year to build a backcourt, those are my selections. It gets mentioned on this board at least 78 times/month that Duke doesn't have positions.

We all know Mike had the skillset of a guard. He could bring the ball up court, drive, move in transition, shoot 3's. We all remember his freshman year when his versatility was so valuable and he certainly played like a guard that year.

I can't believe I really have to explain this choice. He came up as a guard, and was only moved to forward when he grew out of the gym. He was cleary out of position at power forward. I recall him getting destroyed by Chris Wilcox.

It's not like I'm picking Greg Newton and Carmen Wallace as my all time backcourt here. I think this is a reasonable selection.

[jimsumner]

Really? I wrote, if I could choose any two guys for my backcourt, that's who I would choose. I am not sure how to more effectively communicate my meaning. If I had my choice of any two guys from any one year to build a backcourt, those are my selections. It gets mentioned on this board at least 78 times/month that Duke doesn't have positions.

We all know Mike had the skillset of a guard. He could bring the ball up court, drive, move in transition, shoot 3's. We all remember his freshman year when his versatility was so valuable and he certainly played like a guard that year.

I can't believe I really have to explain this choice. He came up as a guard, and was only moved to forward when he grew out of the gym. He was cleary out of position at power forward. I recall him getting destroyed by Chris Wilcox.

It's not like I'm picking Greg Newton and Carmen Wallace as my all time backcourt here. I think this is a reasonable selection.

Hey, you're entitled to put a forward at guard.

I'm entitled to point out that you put a forward at guard.

FWIW, Shane Battier played some guard in the NBA. Wouldn't Williams and Battier qualify? Grant Hill played some guard at Duke. So, why not go with Hurley and Grant Hill as Duke's best backcourt?

Call me a hide-bound old fogey, but I feel that Duke's best backcourt should probably consist of guys who actually played backcourt at Duke. Not hypotheticals based on what could have happened.

And, btw, the year that Mike Dunleavy was out of position at power forward is the year he averged 17.3 points, 7.2rebounds per game, led Duke in blocked shots, made first-team All-ACC and second-team All-America.

Duke and Maryland split that season, Duke winning by 21, Maryland winning by 14. In the Duke win, Dunleavy had 21 points and nine rebounds. So, I could just as easily recall Dunleavy outplaying Wilcox.

[Mike Corey]

1) Never get involved in a land war in Asia;
2) Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line;
3) Never dispute Jim Sumner about Duke basketball.

~

I don't know who Duke's "best" backcourt would be, but from the duos I was able to watch, my favorite was Jason Williams and Chris Duhon. They had chemistry off the court and on; they posed an incredibly difficult matchup for defenses, and helped Duke's offense click in what was an almost unfairly talented compilation of talent.

[-jk]

How 'bout Grant and Ferry in the back court (they both handled the ball a lot and were good passers)? And Cwell and Bricky inside, of course. I'm not sure who should round out that inverted team, though.

-jk

[gus]

How 'bout Grant and Ferry in the back court (they both handled the ball a lot and were good passers)? And Cwell and Bricky inside, of course. I'm not sure who should round out that inverted team, though.

-jk

Our big man coach in the pivot, of course.

[devildeac]

How 'bout Grant and Ferry in the back court (they both handled the ball a lot and were good passers)? And Cwell and Bricky inside, of course. I'm not sure who should round out that inverted team, though.

-jk

I'd go with McRoberts. Good rebounder, shot blocker/defender on the inside. Good passer/ball handler used to break opponents' presses on the perimeter. Perhaps not a perfect choice but if -jk is going to put Grant and Ferry in his back court and Cwell and Brickey up front, then I'm going to put Josh all over the court as my press-breaker/distributor/intimidator. Guess DeMarcus could handle this role as well .

[jimsumner]

I'd go with McRoberts. Good rebounder, shot blocker/defender on the inside. Good passer/ball handler used to break opponents' presses on the perimeter. Perhaps not a perfect choice but if -jk is going to put Grant and Ferry in his back court and Cwell and Brickey up front, then I'm going to put Josh all over the court as my press-breaker/distributor/intimidator. Guess DeMarcus could handle this role as well .

Danny Ferry actually led Duke in assists for a season and that was Amaker's senior season.

If we use played-some-guard-at-Duke as a starting point, then Billy King, Brian Davis, Grant Hill, Carmen Wallace and Chris Carrawell become part of the pool.

Dahntay Jones shut down Juan Dixon in that 2002 win and Dixon was a guard. Do we add Jones? Lance Thomas sometimes guarded guards. Mark Alarie and Kyle Singler played guard at Duke for at least a few minutes.

If we use had-a-guard-skill set, we can add Ferry, McRoberts and Gene Banks.

If we add played-some-guard-in-the-pros, then Battier and Tony Lang become Duke backcourt players, as does Jones.

Thus, our range of possibilities for best Duke backcourt now includes Jim Spanarkel-Gene Banks, Johnny Dawkins-Danny Ferry, Bobby Hurley-Grant Hill and my favorite, Chris Carrawell and Shane Battier.

[Jderf]

Perhaps we need to stop pretending as though "best historical backcourt" and "best possible backcourt" are the same thing.

A similar statement could be made for the All-Time ACC thread as well.

[devildeac]

Danny Ferry actually led Duke in assists for a season and that was Amaker's senior season.

If we use played-some-guard-at-Duke as a starting point, then Billy King, Brian Davis, Grant Hill, Carmen Wallace and Chris Carrawell become part of the pool.

Dahntay Jones shut down Juan Dixon in that 2002 win and Dixon was a guard. Do we add Jones? Lance Thomas sometimes guarded guards. Mark Alarie and Kyle Singler played guard at Duke for at least a few minutes.

If we use had-a-guard-skill set, we can add Ferry, McRoberts and Gene Banks.

If we add played-some-guard-in-the-pros, then Battier and Tony Lang become Duke backcourt players, as does Jones.

Thus, our range of possibilities for best Duke backcourt now includes Jim Spanarkel-Gene Banks, Johnny Dawkins-Danny Ferry, Bobby Hurley-Grant Hill and my favorite, Chris Carrawell and Shane Battier.

Could we work Nate James into your back court rotation, too ?

(And, if your answer is "no," then I'm going to let YOU tell him that .)

[jimsumner]

Could we work Nate James into your back court rotation, too ?

(And, if your answer is "no," then I'm going to let YOU tell him that .)

Nate actually was the nominal "2" in 2000 and 2001.

[msdukie]

Patrick Davidson

[Verga3]

This is a tough question. My first instinct is Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker so I'll go with it.

I'll second.

[OldPhiKap]

I'll second.

Certainly my favorite.

[ricks68]

My final vote goes along with Olympic Fan's analysis.

ricks

Which is, of course, Dawkins and Amaker-------but since other posters are now mixing it up, and since players that were listed as F/G are being included------how can you guys that have modified the original theme of the thread not even mentioned Heyman or Mullins? I mean, you whippersnappers use Wikipedia for just about everything else, why not look up the greatest Duke players of all time and learn about them? Or, even use a reliable source like GoDuke.com?

ricks

[sagegrouse]

Which is, of course, Dawkins and Amaker-------but since other posters are now mixing it up, and since players that were listed as F/G are being included------how can you guys that have modified the original theme of the thread not even mentioned Heyman or Mullins? I mean, you whippersnappers use Wikipedia for just about everything else, why not look up the greatest Duke players of all time and learn about them? Or, even use a reliable source like GoDuke.com?

ricks

Both Heyman and Mullins were forwards, although in close games Artie would bring the ball up the court -- immediately putting fear in the heart of the 5-11 guard picking him up. He knew in his heart that Artie wuz gonna drive.

sagegrouse

[OldPhiKap]

If Brian Zoubek and Marty Nessley could dribble, pass, and shoot the outside shot, they'd be my favorite backcourt.

Absent that, Johnny and Tommy.

[Newton_14]

In fairness to Edouble, he clearly was speaking hypothetically, and Mike Dunleavy was recruited as a SG, but as he mentioned, the growth spurt turned him into a 3/4 Wing Forward before he stepped foot on campus. He still had great guard skills though.

In fairness to Jim, for this topic, choosing guys that played the point and true 2 guard keeps everyone on a level playing field.

So, let peace and harmony rule the day!

[UrinalCake]

Perhaps we need to stop pretending as though "best historical backcourt" and "best possible backcourt" are the same thing.

If we're going to open up the discussion to mixing and matching any two players, regardless of whether they played together in real life, then I've got to take Redick as my SG. Pair him with any one of Irving, Jason Williams, Hurley, Dawkins, etc. and you've got a matchup nightmare.

[-jk]

My nomination of Ferry and Hill was only partially tongue-in-cheek. Both were legitimate ball handlers and assist men who could hit outside shots. And Cwell and Bricky both spent time in the post. Solid examples of K's willingness - desire, even - to mix up positions for advantage or need.

Anyway, using any reasonable, historically accurate methodology, I do think I'd have to go with Dawkins and Amaker.

-jk

[ricks68]

Both Heyman and Mullins were forwards, although in close games Artie would bring the ball up the court -- immediately putting fear in the heart of the 5-11 guard picking him up. He knew in his heart that Artie wuz gonna drive.

sagegrouse

Yes, you are correct, they were forwards. I knew that. But, if you look them up on the GoDuke roster stats from the past, they are officially listed as F/G's. That would make them eligible.

ricks