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  1. #1

    Best Duke backcourt?

    I saw a recent picture of Kyrie and Nolan on a DBP tweet which was captioned "As good a college backcourt you'll ever see..." and it got me thinking has there been a better backcourt at Duke? The Williams/Duhon backcourt was pretty darn good also. Hurley/T. Hill got two rings. I'm sure there are several others that I am forgetting.

  2. #2
    Duhon/JWill has to be at the top of the list, no? That said, the Kyrie/Nolan combo is pretty insane, even if it never quite got going for a season the way we would have liked.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Two guys named Dawkins and Amaker certainly were no slouches.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    2010 Back court of Jon and Nolan wasn't bad. GoDuke!

  5. #5
    Wojo/Avery and Langdon was pretty good. Avery would have been special.

    I just have a soft spot in my heart for the Alaskan Assassin, never really knew why.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Steve Vacendak and Bob Verga, c. 1966.

    Deserve to be in the discussion.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Tate Armstrong and Jim Spanarkel was another good backcourt. Jim would be better in the FF year. They are two of my favorite Duke players ever. GoDuke!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Steve Vacendak and Bob Verga, c. 1966.

    Deserve to be in the discussion.
    Jim, they were two of the best ever.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    I can't give the nod to Irving/Smith. Really like both of them and wish so badly we would have seen a full season of the two. But they didn't play many games together, 3 of which in the NCAA tournament weren't all that impressive from a backcourt point of view. I'd take Williams and Duhon

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Jim, they were two of the best ever.
    Didn't you just love it when Vacendak took the inbounds pass and then dribbled right through the famous UCLA press in the Indoor Stadium every time before nailing the jumper himself or passing it to Verga for "2" or feeding Lewis for the jam? Pretty darn good backcourt if you ask me.

    ricks

  11. #11

    best backcourt

    To a large degree, how much does his question hang on time played together?

    For instance, Irving and Smith are two of the most talented guards to ever play together ... but they were really only Duke's backcourt for eight games (WhenIrving returned in the NCAAs he came off the bench, so even though he and Smith were often on the court with each other, it was often one or the other -- along with Curry).

    That's the prblem wih he Vacendak-Verga backcourt They were great together in 1965-66 when they helped Duke win the ACC and reach the Final Four, but that was the only year they were Duke's backcourt. In 1964-65, when Verga was sophomore, he shared the backcourt with point guard Denny Ferguson, while Vacendak played small forward (and he really was a foward and not a third guard in Bubas' system). In 1966-67 Vacendek as gone. Duhon and Jason Williams started together for the last 10 games of the 2000-01 season and for all of the 2001-02 season. They won two ACC championships, a national championship and played together on two teams that finished No. 1 in the final AP poll. Duke's record was 41-4 when they started together.

    Still, I think Duke's greatest backcourt has to be Dawkins and Amaker. They started together for three years --the three years that saw the rise of Duke basketball under Coach K. Their three teams were 24-10, 23-8, 37-3 -- 84-21 overall ... and they started every one of those 105 games together. Dawkns finished his career as the top scorer in Duke history (holding that mark until 2006) and Amaker finished his career as the first official National Defensive player of the year. Granted, that was in 1987 (the year after Dawkins left), but Amaker averaged more than two steals a game in 1986 (before there was a NDPOY). Nobody applied ball presure like Tommy Amaker (although Wojo and Hurley were close). Amaker ended his career as Duke's al-time steals leader and when they finished Dawkins and Amaker were 1-2 in Duke history in career assists -- even now, they are No. 3 and No. 6 on Duke's list.

    I think they get the nod for (1) how well they fit together and (2) how long they played together (more than twice as long as Vacendek/Verga or Williams/Duhon). I suppose that Irving and Smith were a more talented combo -- so were Jason Williams and Chris Duhon -- but when you measure the overall impact of Duke backcourts, Dawkins an Amaker have to get the prize.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    To a large degree, how much does his question hang on time played together?

    For instance, Irving and Smith are two of the most talented guards to ever play together ... but they were really only Duke's backcourt for eight games (WhenIrving returned in the NCAAs he came off the bench, so even though he and Smith were often on the court with each other, it was often one or the other -- along with Curry).

    That's the prblem wih he Vacendak-Verga backcourt They were great together in 1965-66 when they helped Duke win the ACC and reach the Final Four, but that was the only year they were Duke's backcourt. In 1964-65, when Verga was sophomore, he shared the backcourt with point guard Denny Ferguson, while Vacendak played small forward (and he really was a foward and not a third guard in Bubas' system). In 1966-67 Vacendek as gone. Duhon and Jason Williams started together for the last 10 games of the 2000-01 season and for all of the 2001-02 season. They won two ACC championships, a national championship and played together on two teams that finished No. 1 in the final AP poll. Duke's record was 41-4 when they started together.

    Still, I think Duke's greatest backcourt has to be Dawkins and Amaker. They started together for three years --the three years that saw the rise of Duke basketball under Coach K. Their three teams were 24-10, 23-8, 37-3 -- 84-21 overall ... and they started every one of those 105 games together. Dawkns finished his career as the top scorer in Duke history (holding that mark until 2006) and Amaker finished his career as the first official National Defensive player of the year. Granted, that was in 1987 (the year after Dawkins left), but Amaker averaged more than two steals a game in 1986 (before there was a NDPOY). Nobody applied ball presure like Tommy Amaker (although Wojo and Hurley were close). Amaker ended his career as Duke's al-time steals leader and when they finished Dawkins and Amaker were 1-2 in Duke history in career assists -- even now, they are No. 3 and No. 6 on Duke's list.

    I think they get the nod for (1) how well they fit together and (2) how long they played together (more than twice as long as Vacendek/Verga or Williams/Duhon). I suppose that Irving and Smith were a more talented combo -- so were Jason Williams and Chris Duhon -- but when you measure the overall impact of Duke backcourts, Dawkins an Amaker have to get the prize.
    My final vote goes along with Olympic Fan's analysis.

    ricks

  13. #13
    Have we moved the goal post to the best two or three year backcourt or just the best backcourt. The V & V backcourt only played together for one year but that does not disqualify they for the best. They were extremely productive and quit complementary in their play. Isn't tht the criteria?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Have we moved the goal post to the best two or three year backcourt or just the best backcourt. The V & V backcourt only played together for one year but that does not disqualify they for the best. They were extremely productive and quit complementary in their play. Isn't tht the criteria?
    I think number of games together has to at least be somewhere in the equation. When I first saw the thread title the Dawkins/Amaker combination was the one that leapt immediately to my mind, followed by Williams/Duhon, but I'll admit that Verga/Vacendak was just slightly before my time.

  15. #15
    Gotta go with Williams/Duhon.
    Can still remember the sound of the crack in the head that Duhon took from Steve Blake at the FF. And still Chris came back to win it all.
    JWill? One of the coolest guys on the planet.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville
    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    My final vote goes along with Olympic Fan's analysis.

    ricks
    Which is, of course, Dawkins and Amaker-------but since other posters are now mixing it up, and since players that were listed as F/G are being included------how can you guys that have modified the original theme of the thread not even mentioned Heyman or Mullins? I mean, you whippersnappers use Wikipedia for just about everything else, why not look up the greatest Duke players of all time and learn about them? Or, even use a reliable source like GoDuke.com?

    ricks

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    Which is, of course, Dawkins and Amaker-------but since other posters are now mixing it up, and since players that were listed as F/G are being included------how can you guys that have modified the original theme of the thread not even mentioned Heyman or Mullins? I mean, you whippersnappers use Wikipedia for just about everything else, why not look up the greatest Duke players of all time and learn about them? Or, even use a reliable source like GoDuke.com?

    ricks
    Both Heyman and Mullins were forwards, although in close games Artie would bring the ball up the court -- immediately putting fear in the heart of the 5-11 guard picking him up. He knew in his heart that Artie wuz gonna drive.

    sagegrouse

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    If Brian Zoubek and Marty Nessley could dribble, pass, and shoot the outside shot, they'd be my favorite backcourt.

    Absent that, Johnny and Tommy.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Asheville
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Both Heyman and Mullins were forwards, although in close games Artie would bring the ball up the court -- immediately putting fear in the heart of the 5-11 guard picking him up. He knew in his heart that Artie wuz gonna drive.

    sagegrouse
    Yes, you are correct, they were forwards. I knew that. But, if you look them up on the GoDuke roster stats from the past, they are officially listed as F/G's. That would make them eligible.

    ricks

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    Yes, you are correct, they were forwards. I knew that. But, if you look them up on the GoDuke roster stats from the past, they are officially listed as F/G's. That would make them eligible.

    ricks
    This means that Vic Bubas was the first coach to use the four-guard system. It also means that Heyman was the best rebounding guard in Duke history.

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