I agree on Waiters - I was definitely wrong about him. He's clearly got potential, and will hopefully be a great offensive asset to Kyrie. But the Cavs are just terrible. Terrible. Offensively, they'll be good. With Kyrie at the helm, they'll be set for a few years. But defensively, this team is horrific. Kyrie either a) doesn't want to play defense, b) simply not good at defense, or c) isn't taught how to play defense. IMO, I think it's a combination of all three. Kyrie may be a competent defensive player in the future, but he'll never be Russell Westbrook.
The Cavs need a defensive player in the draft, and there are two amazing ones in Porter and Noel. There is a strong chance that the Cavs get one of them.
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill
President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club
A debate has started on the 2013 Early Entry thread about whether underclassmen should declare. I decided to pull a list off of the NBA website from 2012 (which seems to be not the final one since one of the players apparently withdrew and played a college season this year) and find out what happened to all of the players. Out of the 48 players (not counting the guy who withdrew) 25 of them were drafted in the first round and 5 were drafted in the second round. Justin Hamilton is the only second round pick that did not sign with an NBA team. He was also the only player not in the NBA to have what would be considered a decent overseas season. Maalik Wayns was the only undrafted player to get some NBA time and make any decent money. Among the other undrafted players, a couple of other players had decent D League seasons and Terrell Stoglin had a solid enough season overseas, although it was not for a particularly high level team and the salary was probably not that lucrative. A lot of players struggled to have a team for most of the season and a few may have dealt with injuries. Quite a few of them do not appear to have played any competitive basketball games thus far although some of them might not have been serious entries with the players probably not expecting to be drafted or to continue playing basketball, although some appear to have tried, but not found a gig. One guy is not playing, but he did apparently graduate.
Erik Austin, Jackson CC (MI), Unknown
Harrison Barnes, North Carolina, NBA First Round
Will Barton, Memphis, NBA Second Round
Bradley Beal, Florida, NBA First Round
JCovan Brown, Texas, Lowlevel Europe (partial season)
Dominic Cheek, Villanova, Unknown, did not catch on in D-League or Lowlevel Europe
Jared Cunningham, Oregon State, NBA First Round
Anthony Davis, Kentucky, NBA First Round
Andre Drummond, Connecticut, NBA First Round
Dominique Ferguson, Florida International, Canada (partial season)
Justin Hamilton, LSU, Drafted in Second Round, Midlevel Europe
Moe Harkless, St. Johns, NBA First Round
John Henson, North Carolina, NBA First Round
John Jenkins, Vanderbilt, NBA First Round
Perry Jones III, Baylor, NBA First Round
Terrence Jones, Kentucky, NBA First Round
Xavier Jones, Missouri State-West Plains, Unknown
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky, NBA First Round
Doron Lamb, Kentucky, NBA Second Round
Jeremy Lamb, Connecticut, NBA First Round
Meyers Leonard, Illinois, NBA First Round
Damian Lillard, Weber State, NBA First Round
Kendall Marshall, North Carolina, NBA First Round
Fab Melo, Syracuse, NBA First Round
Khris Middleton, Texas A&M, NBA Second Round
Quincy Miller, Baylor, NBA Second Round
Tony Mitchell, Alabama, D League
Arnett Moultrie, Mississippi State, NBA First Round
Reeves Nelson, UCLA/Zalgiris (Lithuania), D League (partial season)
Austin Rivers, Duke, NBA First Round
Peter Roberson, Grambling State, Withdrew
Quincy Roberts, Grambling State, Unknown, Graduated
Thomas Robinson, Kansas, NBA First Round
Terrence Ross, Washington, NBA First Round
Avery Scharer, Shoreline CC (WA), Unknown
Renardo Sidney, Mississippi State, Unknown, Injuries in D League
Jonathon Simmons, Houston, Unknown
Terrell Stoglin, Maryland, Lowlevel Europe
Gerardo Suero, Albany, Dominican Republic (low level)
Jared Sullinger, Ohio State, NBA First Round
Marquis Teague, Kentucky, NBA First Round
Joston Thomas, Hawaii, Extreme Lowlevel Europe (partial season?)
Hollis Thompson, Georgetown, D League
Richard Townsend-Gant, Vancouver Island University, Unknown
Dion Waiters, Syracuse, NBA First Round
Maalik Wayns, Villanova, NBA, D League
Royce White, Iowa State, NBA First Round
DAngelo Williams, Notre Dame de Namur (CA), Unknown
Tony Wroten, Washington, NBA First Round
Good summary. As I did before the draft, I expect both these guys to be good NBA players. A couple of things surprised me here; Beal hit threes at a much higher clip than he did in college, but some guys are simply more suited to the pro game. And Waiters hasn't been as good as I thought he'd be right away. That said, he's shown plenty of promise -- check out his numbers in February -- and anyone who can do THIS probably has a future in this league.
I actually agree with you that Beal is probably the better player. But that was never really of consequence, at least not to the Cavs. Even if they actually thought Waiters was better, they really just needed him to be good enough relative to Beal to justify not trading ahead of Washington to get Beal. And as my perpetual reminder, the only way Charlotte was reportedly coughing up the No. 2 pick was if Cleveland would accept Tyrus Thomas, the worst player in the NBA and a massive locker room cancer to boot. Even for a rebuilding team, it'd have been preposterous to take on three years of this guy unless you were convinced Beal was, like, a much, much better player than Waiters.
And of course, Lillard is better than both of them. I guess if you're a team with either John Wall or Kyrie... I mean, I'm not sure, everyone seemed to think Lillard was a total slam dunk. I'd like to say I'd have been tempted to take him anyway, regardless of positional need, and figure something out. But who knows?
This may read better, or not?
Impressive that 25 of the 30 first-round NBA selections came from early entry.Code:NBA First Round Harrison Barnes North Carolina Bradley Beal Florida Jared Cunningham Oregon State Anthony Davis Kentucky Andre Drummond Connecticut Moe Harkless St. Johns John Henson North Carolina John Jenkins Vanderbilt Perry Jones III Baylor Terrence Jones Kentucky Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Kentucky Jeremy Lamb Connecticut Meyers Leonard Illinois Damian Lillard Weber State Kendall Marshall North Carolina Fab Melo Syracuse Arnett Moultrie Mississippi State Austin Rivers Duke Thomas Robinson Kansas Terrence Ross Washington Jared Sullinger Ohio State Marquis Teague Kentucky Dion Waiters Syracuse Royce White Iowa State Tony Wroten Washington NBA Second Round Will Barton Memphis Doron Lamb Kentucky Khris Middleton Texas A&M Quincy Miller Baylor Justin Hamilton LSU Played in Europe Other Maalik Wayns Villanova NBA Signed as Free Agent Dominique Ferguson Florida International Canada (partial season) Tony Mitchell Alabama D League Hollis Thompson Georgetown D League Reeves Nelson UCLA/Zalgiris (Lithuania) D League (partial season) Gerardo Suero Albany Dominican Republic (low level) Joston Thomas Hawaii Extreme Lowlevel Europe (partial season?) Terrell Stoglin Maryland Lowlevel Europe JCovan Brown Texas Lowlevel Europe (partial season) Erik Austin Jackson CC (MI) Unknown Dominic Cheek Villanova Unknown Xavier Jones Missouri State-West Plains Unknown Quincy Roberts Grambling State Unknown Avery Scharer Shoreline CC (WA) Unknown Renardo Sidney Mississippi State Unknown Jonathon Simmons Houston Unknown Richard Townsend-Gant Vancouver Island University Unknown DAngelo Williams Notre Dame de Namur (CA) Unknown Peter Roberson Grambling State Withdrew
sagegrouse
cleaned it up a little for ya...
Code:Erik Austin, Jackson CC (MI), Unknown Harrison Barnes, North Carolina, NBA First Round Will Barton, Memphis, NBA Second Round Bradley Beal, Florida, NBA First Round JCovan Brown, Texas, Lowlevel Europe (partial season) Dominic Cheek, Villanova, Unknown, did not catch on in D-League or Lowlevel Europe Jared Cunningham, Oregon State, NBA First Round Anthony Davis, Kentucky, NBA First Round Andre Drummond, Connecticut, NBA First Round Dominique Ferguson, Florida International, Canada (partial season) Justin Hamilton, LSU, Drafted in Second Round, Midlevel Europe Moe Harkless, St. Johns, NBA First Round John Henson, North Carolina, NBA First Round John Jenkins, Vanderbilt, NBA First Round Perry Jones III, Baylor, NBA First Round Terrence Jones, Kentucky, NBA First Round Xavier Jones, Missouri State-West Plains, Unknown Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky, NBA First Round Doron Lamb, Kentucky, NBA Second Round Jeremy Lamb, Connecticut, NBA First Round Meyers Leonard, Illinois, NBA First Round Damian Lillard, Weber State, NBA First Round Kendall Marshall, North Carolina, NBA First Round Fab Melo, Syracuse, NBA First Round Khris Middleton, Texas A&M, NBA Second Round Quincy Miller, Baylor, NBA Second Round Tony Mitchell, Alabama, D League Arnett Moultrie, Mississippi State, NBA First Round Reeves Nelson, UCLA/Zalgiris (Lithuania), D League (partial season) Austin Rivers, Duke, NBA First Round Peter Roberson, Grambling State, Withdrew Quincy Roberts, Grambling State, Unknown, Graduated Thomas Robinson, Kansas, NBA First Round Terrence Ross, Washington, NBA First Round Avery Scharer, Shoreline CC (WA), Unknown Renardo Sidney, Mississippi State, Unknown, Injuries in D League Jonathon Simmons, Houston, Unknown Terrell Stoglin, Maryland, Lowlevel Europe Gerardo Suero, Albany, Dominican Republic (low level) Jared Sullinger, Ohio State, NBA First Round Marquis Teague, Kentucky, NBA First Round Joston Thomas, Hawaii, Extreme Lowlevel Europe (partial season?) Hollis Thompson, Georgetown, D League Richard Townsend-Gant, Vancouver Island University, Unknown Dion Waiters, Syracuse, NBA First Round Maalik Wayns, Villanova, NBA, D League Royce White, Iowa State, NBA First Round DAngelo Williams, Notre Dame de Namur (CA), Unknown Tony Wroten, Washington, NBA First Round