Duke makes the cut for Olek Czyz

[watzone]

Czyz was supposed to narrow his list to five schools in the coming weeks. Well, the Polish prospect decided he was down to just three. Duke made the cut along with Florida and Lousiville. Yep! Buddies Pitino and BD vs K Olek is a bit raw, but very athletic.

[Bob Green]

Here is a link: http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...18/1018/SPORTS from the Reno Gazette-Journal.

[Scarbo]

Watzone....Last night, the guys calling the AAU Championship noted that the staff was not only checking out those guards (K. Boynton, MVP....) from Florida, but their big man as well. Yea or Nay????

[watzone]

They may have been checking Eloy Vargas out, but thats about it. He's a solid player IMO, but most feel Louisville or Florida lead. He dropped Kentucky yesterday. They may have been watching another underclassmen. Duke is watching Kendall Marshall who played for Boo Williams.

[Scarbo]

They specifically called out Vargas/Duke by name soooo I threw it out there...

[VaDukie]

Any help pronouncing that last name?

[watzone]

Any help pronouncing that last name?

I've heard it pronounced "Chez" and "Chiz" I use the latter, but it could be wrong.

[Indoor66]

Any help pronouncing that last name?

It is pronounced "Czyz". (LOL)

[Law Talking Guy]

Any help pronouncing that last name?

How about "C"?

[EagleDevil]

A coach named Krzyzewski has to have the edge in recruiting a guy named Czyz. There's just a natural ZYZ connection there.

Chris

[BDevilU]

Is he the "shiz"?

[FreezingDevil]

The name Czyz alone is reason enough to want this guy to come to Duke. Just think of how much joy such a name would give the Crazies! My mind is already filled with such horrible chants like "czyzille" and "more czyz please" (assuming you pronounce his name "chiz" or "cheez"). Give me more time and I could come up with dozens more.

[jaimedun34]

The name Czyz alone is reason enough to want this guy to come to Duke. Just think of how much joy such a name would give the Crazies! My mind is already filled with such horrible chants like "czyzille" and "more czyz please" (assuming you pronounce his name "chiz" or "cheez"). Give me more time and I could come up with dozens more.

lol. That's good.

[mgtr]

But even if it is pronounced "sizz," then Czyzille is excellent!

[tommy]

This is from the article Bob Green linked to:

Both sites rate him as a four-star player out of five, with Scout.com ranking him the 19th best power forward in the nation and Rivals.com as the 24th best.
"I have to work on all of my skills (not just offense)," Czyz said. "All of the coaches have said I have a big upside. Of course I have to work on my offense and my dribbling and I want to get stronger too. After my first two or three years (in college) I will be a completely different player."

Why exactly are we super-excited about a kid who is so raw and rated not the 19th or 24th best player in the nation, but the 19th or 24th best power forward?? I know those ratings are often way off, and yes, the fact that Florida and Louisville are interested indicates we're not alone in seeing something here, but still, the kid does not appear to be a top tier recruit and says himself he's going to need several years to "be a completely different player." Sounds like a pretty major project to me, and not the level of recruit needed to win championships. Has anyone actually seen him play? Why are we targeting a guy like this when that class is supposed to be so deep with really high quality players?

[Bob Green]

This is from the article Bob Green linked to:

Both sites rate him as a four-star player out of five, with Scout.com ranking him the 19th best power forward in the nation and Rivals.com as the 24th best.
"I have to work on all of my skills (not just offense)," Czyz said. "All of the coaches have said I have a big upside. Of course I have to work on my offense and my dribbling and I want to get stronger too. After my first two or three years (in college) I will be a completely different player."

Why exactly are we super-excited about a kid who is so raw and rated not the 19th or 24th best player in the nation, but the 19th or 24th best power forward?? I know those ratings are often way off, and yes, the fact that Florida and Louisville are interested indicates we're not alone in seeing something here, but still, the kid does not appear to be a top tier recruit and says himself he's going to need several years to "be a completely different player." Sounds like a pretty major project to me, and not the level of recruit needed to win championships. Has anyone actually seen him play? Why are we targeting a guy like this when that class is supposed to be so deep with really high quality players?

Several counterpoints:

1. IMO, one of the criticisms leveled at Coach K and staff, in the past, is not identifying "diamond in the rough" talent as a backup to the top tier talent being recruited. When a top rated target decides to go to a different school some fans are outraged that we "put all our eggs in one basket" and weren't recruiting a lesser ranked option as a backup.

2. Olek Czyz has blown up on the recruiting scene this summer and is definitely a quality talent. Yes, he is raw, but he is big (6'8" 235 lbs) and extremely athletic (41" vertical). His potential is through the roof and we all should be excited about his recruitment.

3. I like the fact that Czyz is talking about how different he will be in two or three years. Olek Czyz is a guy who can come into our system, possibly contribute immediately in a limited role, stay two or three or four years, and develop into an All-American.

4. The Class of 2008 is not really deep with high quality players. The Class of 2009 is much deeper.

I see this as a case of Coach K pursuing a win-win situation in the recruitment of power forwards. The best case scenario for Duke basketball will be to sign one-and-done Greg Monroe in pursuit of immediate payoff, and to sign Olek Czyz who will deliver payoff down the road. We sign Elliot Williams to secure our future at the 2/3 position and then push hard to sign three or four players from the Class of 2009.

[Cali-Duke]

I completely agree with Bob on this. Also, Olek moved to the US not too long ago (3 years according to one article). It is difficult, though not impossible, to adjust to US style play and suddenly jump to the top rankings.

Plus, how many 6-8 guys have 41 inch verticals. Thats around as high as Marty and Gerald's verticals, but he is taller than both of them. Crazy!

[Patrick Yates]

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.c...asp?CID=697357

The above link is to a Rivals article that touches on this very point regarding Czyz. Most feel that he will not be able to significantly contribute from day 1. His skill set is simply too raw. But the tools appear to be in place. Right now, he has LeBron like size and athleticism, but nowhere near the polished skills that Bron has. He will probably never be THAT skilled, but with proper seasoning, and extensive work on ball handling and shooting, he could be a stud at Duke. This is not to say he won't have some impact his frosh year. He will be great as an energy guy for 10-20 mpg, providing quality rebounding and attacking the rim at every opportunity. Also, he is a great insurance player for when a starter gets injured or in foul trouble. He will help immediately, if not be a huge contributor night-in night out.

I have been one of the most strident proponents of the "diamond in the rough" criticisms of K. For years, I have been tired of seeing kids that Duke did not deign to recruit start killing us after a year or two of seasoning. I would like to see K and the staff polish the skills of an raw but elite athlete into an all-america, which Olek (love his nickname, Ollie) certainly has the potential to become.

This brings up a quibble about rankings. For the above poster re: Ollie being the 24th or something PF, those rankings are pre summer. That will change, a lot, in the post summer rankings. But that shouldn't matter. I have seen a real trend over the past decade or so since I entered Duke. That trend is that the vast majority of player rankings are bull-plonky. I beleive that the gurus can look at a class and say who the top 5-10 players are. After that, it is not very accurate. I really think that the 15-20 range, down to 200, are fairly close. There is not a real separation. The guy who is ranked 25th is probably not significantly better than the kid who is ranked 75th or 150th for that matter.

A lot of this depends on when the guru saw you play. One day, when I was a Sr in HS, I had a perfect day playing pickup ball. I was playing against kids as good as I was, so it was similiar to summer ball in that recruits are playing with other top kids. That day, I was unconscious. I hit everything I threw up. For a carreer 15% shooter from outside the lane, I was unreal. If you saw me that day, you would at least think I was a star on my HS team. I wasn't even on my HS team. My point is, that a ranker sees a few games for most players a summer. What if the kid isn't hitting that day, or his GF dumped him, or his parents are having problems, or whatever. He has a bad game or two and drops like a rock. Conversely, some kid is on fire for a week and he skyrockets. In reality, the two kids are approximately as good as each other, but one is a top 20 recruit while the other is buried in the 75-100 range. When they arrive at college and the 75th player is better than the 25th player, everyone is shocked, when they shouldn't be. We at Duke get too caught up in rankings numbers. They may not mean as much as we want them to. That said, getting at top 5 kid (Greg Monroe, come on down) is usually great, because these kids have truly separated themselves from the pack.

Patrick Yates

ps. Word of caution on Ollie. Apparantly he had one really good week, surrounded by mediocre to poor weeks this summer. That one week he looked great, and the expectations have skyrocketed since. This is the prototype of a player that needs at least 3 years to be a star in college. In yr 1 he provide falshes where he looks great, but small flashes only. Yr 2 is when he starts to be a solid player, and years 3&4 are when he is a team star. Letting Ollie learn from Singler and King at the forward slots would be great. By his Jr year Ollie could be a stud SF, IF the staff can develop his skills.

[Chicago 1995]

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.c...asp?CID=697357

The above link is to a Rivals article that touches on this very point regarding Czyz. Most feel that he will not be able to significantly contribute from day 1. His skill set is simply too raw. But the tools appear to be in place. Right now, he has LeBron like size and athleticism, but nowhere near the polished skills that Bron has. He will probably never be THAT skilled, but with proper seasoning, and extensive work on ball handling and shooting, he could be a stud at Duke. This is not to say he won't have some impact his frosh year. He will be great as an energy guy for 10-20 mpg, providing quality rebounding and attacking the rim at every opportunity. Also, he is a great insurance player for when a starter gets injured or in foul trouble. He will help immediately, if not be a huge contributor night-in night out.

I have been one of the most strident proponents of the "diamond in the rough" criticisms of K. For years, I have been tired of seeing kids that Duke did not deign to recruit start killing us after a year or two of seasoning. I would like to see K and the staff polish the skills of an raw but elite athlete into an all-america, which Olek (love his nickname, Ollie) certainly has the potential to become.

This brings up a quibble about rankings. For the above poster re: Ollie being the 24th or something PF, those rankings are pre summer. That will change, a lot, in the post summer rankings. But that shouldn't matter. I have seen a real trend over the past decade or so since I entered Duke. That trend is that the vast majority of player rankings are bull-plonky. I beleive that the gurus can look at a class and say who the top 5-10 players are. After that, it is not very accurate. I really think that the 15-20 range, down to 200, are fairly close. There is not a real separation. The guy who is ranked 25th is probably not significantly better than the kid who is ranked 75th or 150th for that matter.

A lot of this depends on when the guru saw you play. One day, when I was a Sr in HS, I had a perfect day playing pickup ball. I was playing against kids as good as I was, so it was similiar to summer ball in that recruits are playing with other top kids. That day, I was unconscious. I hit everything I threw up. For a carreer 15% shooter from outside the lane, I was unreal. If you saw me that day, you would at least think I was a star on my HS team. I wasn't even on my HS team. My point is, that a ranker sees a few games for most players a summer. What if the kid isn't hitting that day, or his GF dumped him, or his parents are having problems, or whatever. He has a bad game or two and drops like a rock. Conversely, some kid is on fire for a week and he skyrockets. In reality, the two kids are approximately as good as each other, but one is a top 20 recruit while the other is buried in the 75-100 range. When they arrive at college and the 75th player is better than the 25th player, everyone is shocked, when they shouldn't be. We at Duke get too caught up in rankings numbers. They may not mean as much as we want them to. That said, getting at top 5 kid (Greg Monroe, come on down) is usually great, because these kids have truly separated themselves from the pack.

Patrick Yates

ps. Word of caution on Ollie. Apparantly he had one really good week, surrounded by mediocre to poor weeks this summer. That one week he looked great, and the expectations have skyrocketed since. This is the prototype of a player that needs at least 3 years to be a star in college. In yr 1 he provide falshes where he looks great, but small flashes only. Yr 2 is when he starts to be a solid player, and years 3&4 are when he is a team star. Letting Ollie learn from Singler and King at the forward slots would be great. By his Jr year Ollie could be a stud SF, IF the staff can develop his skills.

Lebron like? Let's be a little more realistic. Even just talking about his size and his athleticism, that's just a wildly unfair and terrible comparison.

Further, it's going to create an expectation of an upside that's not merited. Given that most of the reports say that Olek has trouble dribbling and creating his own shot, we need to respect that he's really raw, and comparing him to, at worst, the second best wing in the world in any form, isn't constructive.

Also, Olek projects as a PF, not a SF, right? Understanding the flexibility of the Duke system, his size and skill set right now certainly is more of a PF type of player, not an SF, so the Lebron comparison, again, falls flat.

I have no problem that we're recruiting Czyz. I'm a little worried our recruiting is so focused in the '08 class as it is. That being said, we need to be very realistic about Olek and his contributions if he in fact becomes a Blue Devil. While we've not recruited a ton of kids like this of late, those that we have recruited haven't panned out.

Olek isn't going to make or break this class. If he comes, he gives us a good practice body, and beyond that, I don't think any of us has any clue as to what he'll become.

This class is Williams and Monroe for better or worse, and that's it. While I'm not sure if we can afford to miss on either of them, I am sure that we can't afford to miss on both.

[Saratoga2]

This is from the article Bob Green linked to:

Both sites rate him as a four-star player out of five, with Scout.com ranking him the 19th best power forward in the nation and Rivals.com as the 24th best.
"I have to work on all of my skills (not just offense)," Czyz said. "All of the coaches have said I have a big upside. Of course I have to work on my offense and my dribbling and I want to get stronger too. After my first two or three years (in college) I will be a completely different player."

Why exactly are we super-excited about a kid who is so raw and rated not the 19th or 24th best player in the nation, but the 19th or 24th best power forward?? I know those ratings are often way off, and yes, the fact that Florida and Louisville are interested indicates we're not alone in seeing something here, but still, the kid does not appear to be a top tier recruit and says himself he's going to need several years to "be a completely different player." Sounds like a pretty major project to me, and not the level of recruit needed to win championships. Has anyone actually seen him play? Why are we targeting a guy like this when that class is supposed to be so deep with really high quality players?

Florida had several really strong kids backing up Horford and Noah. They were a little raw too but were instrumental in Florida reaching the final four and then winning. He is exactly the type of player that we lack now. He might be a back up at first giving minutes and fouls and scoring a little but he is likely to blossom over the years. By this time next year the kid may be rated in the top ten power forward category and we would be getting the very solid power player we will lack this coming season.